RIRA Checkpoints

[pintsofguinness]

But it's not the RUC is it? The RUC is a convenient tag from those who want it to fail. Until people realize that attitudes which suggest it's ok to shoot at the police in northern Ireland are outdated, nothing is going to change. How do we get a more balanced police force (which I assume you want) if we can't get Catholics to join it because the "it's ok to shoot the cops" mentality still prevails?


I think we all need some group therapy... Now everyone repeat after me

"it's not ok to shoot people, it's not ok to shoot people, ITS NOT OK TO SHOOT PEOPLE"!

There's hugs and an ice cream social after were finished with our rehabilitation.

Well it is the RUC, a new uniform and name doesnt change much.

Your ignorance of the changes that have taken place in policing here is understandable, given the fact that you live in England. Nationalists and republicans have accepted the PSNI, if recruitment numbers are anything to go by. Out on the ground, the main gripe that nationalists would have with the police these days is that their response times leave something to be desired. The only people stiil refusing to recognise the new policing dispensation are the same people who go out shooting pizza delivery boys, together with their supporters. Oh yeah, and people who live in England.

Nonsense, the police force is no more acceptable to many nationalists than it was years ago.
Look at Kevin McDaid's killing back in May, I seen no difference to the way it was handled by the RUC.  My family and friends at home see no difference in the RUC/PSNI, houses being broken in to every night, elderly people afraid of the their lives and what's does the police do about it? Jack shit.

Btw, what does recruitment show? How many new recruits are nationalists from south armagh? I dont know of any.

[boojangles]

My problem with the PSNI is that although there have been major changes to the way policiing is run here, there seems to be a reluctance (for want of a word) on their behalf to arrest and charge criminal elements in nationalist communities.  Maybe the same thing happens in loyalist communities, I don't know for sure.  All I know is that in some nationalist communities these scumbags are free to roam about day and night and practically terrorise some people.  The PSNI obviously know who they are since they all have criminal records yet... they seem to get away with so much.

It may be straying off point, I don't know much about the PSNI but the same things are happening in most towns down South too. Little scumbags getting away with all sorts of crime,serving a month or 2(if any time at all) and coming out and bragging to their buddies about how f**king hard they are.I know of one lad in Cavan who actually turned down Community Service to do a few weeks in jail-hard as nails these boys. But in fairness its the judiciary system in most cases and not the Police who are to blame here. It may not b a problem alone in the North.

[pintsofguinness]

My problem with the PSNI is that although there have been major changes to the way policiing is run here, there seems to be a reluctance (for want of a word) on their behalf to arrest and charge criminal elements in nationalist communities.  Maybe the same thing happens in loyalist communities, I don't know for sure.  All I know is that in some nationalist communities these scumbags are free to roam about day and night and practically terrorise some people.  The PSNI obviously know who they are since they all have criminal records yet... they seem to get away with so much.

It may be straying off point, I don't know much about the PSNI but the same things are happening in most towns down South too. Little scumbags getting away with all sorts of crime,serving a month or 2(if any time at all) and coming out and bragging to their buddies about how f**king hard they are.I know of one lad in Cavan who actually turned down Community Service to do a few weeks in jail-hard as nails these boys. But in fairness its the judiciary system in most cases and not the Police who are to blame here. It may not b a problem alone in the North.

It's down to the police when there's no arrests.  Go in to Crossmaglen and theres scumbags racing up and down a road outside a police station, only a matter of time before someone is killed, what do the police do? Nothing!
Robberies every night of the week and no arrests.

[D4S]

But it's not the RUC is it? The RUC is a convenient tag from those who want it to fail. Until people realize that attitudes which suggest it's ok to shoot at the police in northern Ireland are outdated, nothing is going to change. How do we get a more balanced police force (which I assume you want) if we can't get Catholics to join it because the "it's ok to shoot the cops" mentality still prevails?


I think we all need some group therapy... Now everyone repeat after me

"it's not ok to shoot people, it's not ok to shoot people, ITS NOT OK TO SHOOT PEOPLE"!

There's hugs and an ice cream social after were finished with our rehabilitation.

Well it is the RUC, a new uniform and name doesnt change much.

Your ignorance of the changes that have taken place in policing here is understandable, given the fact that you live in England. Nationalists and republicans have accepted the PSNI, if recruitment numbers are anything to go by. Out on the ground, the main gripe that nationalists would have with the police these days is that their response times leave something to be desired. The only people stiil refusing to recognise the new policing dispensation are the same people who go out shooting pizza delivery boys, together with their supporters. Oh yeah, and people who live in England.

Nonsense, the police force is no more acceptable to many nationalists than it was years ago.
Look at Kevin McDaid's killing back in May, I seen no difference to the way it was handled by the RUC.  My family and friends at home see no difference in the RUC/PSNI, houses being broken in to every night, elderly people afraid of the their lives and what's does the police do about it? Jack shit.

Btw, what does recruitment show? How many new recruits are nationalists from south armagh? I dont know of any.

One reason could be that the dissedents would attack them and their families???

[pintsofguinness]

One reason could be that the dissedents would attack them and their families???

That doesnt seem to be a deterent for all these nationalists we're being told have already joined.

[Myles Na G.]

But it's not the RUC is it? The RUC is a convenient tag from those who want it to fail. Until people realize that attitudes which suggest it's ok to shoot at the police in northern Ireland are outdated, nothing is going to change. How do we get a more balanced police force (which I assume you want) if we can't get Catholics to join it because the "it's ok to shoot the cops" mentality still prevails?


I think we all need some group therapy... Now everyone repeat after me

"it's not ok to shoot people, it's not ok to shoot people, ITS NOT OK TO SHOOT PEOPLE"!

There's hugs and an ice cream social after were finished with our rehabilitation.

Well it is the RUC, a new uniform and name doesnt change much.

Your ignorance of the changes that have taken place in policing here is understandable, given the fact that you live in England. Nationalists and republicans have accepted the PSNI, if recruitment numbers are anything to go by. Out on the ground, the main gripe that nationalists would have with the police these days is that their response times leave something to be desired. The only people stiil refusing to recognise the new policing dispensation are the same people who go out shooting pizza delivery boys, together with their supporters. Oh yeah, and people who live in England.

Nonsense, the police force is no more acceptable to many nationalists than it was years ago.
Look at Kevin McDaid's killing back in May, I seen no difference to the way it was handled by the RUC.  My family and friends at home see no difference in the RUC/PSNI, houses being broken in to every night, elderly people afraid of the their lives and what's does the police do about it? Jack shit.

Btw, what does recruitment show? How many new recruits are nationalists from south armagh? I dont know of any.

[/b]
Like they're going to advertise the fact that they've joined the police in south Armagh? I don't think so.

[pintsofguinness]

Like they're going to advertise the fact that they've joined the police in south Armagh? I don't think so.

South armagh is a tight knit community, would be very hard to keep something like that to yourself.

[D4S]

One reason could be that the dissidents would attack them and their families???

That doesnt seem to be a deterent for all these nationalists we're being told have already joined.

It would be a reason why many more haven't joined.  Areas such as south armagh and west belfast I would imagine recruitment would be zero, 1 as they don't support/trust the police and 2 Fear of repurcussions.  How do we get change in the police if it isn't a 50/50 police force?  I would not even think of joining in a million years as I still don't trust elements within the psni as there are so many there who would have been in the RUC.  But I do not begrudge any young person joining to try and make a difference, maybe they don't remember/or know so much of past troubles and the amount of collusion. 

[Maguire01]

Nonsense, the police force is no more acceptable to many nationalists than it was years ago.

How many is 'many'? Firstly, as has already been said, there is the significant increase in applications and recruitment from the Nationalist/Catholic community. Maybe there are few/none from South Armagh - maybe it will take longer for people in some places - people have grown up within a culture of mistrust of the police - that won't change overnight no matter what the PSNI does.

On the news tonight, there was a public meeting with the police in Crossmaglen. Would this have happened 10 or 15 years ago? There have been similar meetings all across the north in places like Short Strand - areas where there would have been no cooperation at all with the police in the recent past.

It's not the finished article at all. But there are some people who won't want to accept a police force no matter what they do. And many of the issues you cite - antisocial behaviour etc, are common in the south, across GB and the rest of the world. And complaints about police action/inaction are the same in all of these places. I'm not saying that's an excuse, but it has nothing to do with whether or not the PSNI are really the RUC.

However, back on track - none of this makes it ok to shoot a cop.

[pintsofguinness]

Maguire, I see no difference in the police or hear of any.  Public meetings are all very well but get out and do something about the little thugs and you'll find people eventually warming to the police.  People wont change their minds by statisics about new recruits or any such shite, they'll very gradually start changing their minds when they see a difference.

[Maguire01]

Maguire, I see no difference in the police or hear of any.  Public meetings are all very well but get out and do something about the little thugs and you'll find people eventually warming to the police.  People wont change their minds by statisics about new recruits or any such shite, they'll very gradually start changing their minds when they see a difference.

Yes, yes, there's lots to do.

But you can't simply disregard stats on recruits - that's actual evidence that many people have changed their minds. It's not 'any such shite'.

Also, i'm assuming people in south Armagh are cooperating with the Police now? If they are, then that's a massive difference. (Surely these people wouldn't cooperate if they thought they were just dealing with the RUC under a new name?)
If they're not, they can't really complain.

[pintsofguinness]

What do you mean by cooperating?
People ring them when their house is broke in to, they've always done that as they've always had to do that for the insurance.

[Myles Na G.]

What do you mean by cooperating?
People ring them when their house is broke in to, they've always done that as they've always had to do that for the insurance.

People in nationalist areas of Belfast and Derry most certainly do pass information on to the PSNI these days, either directly or (if they can't bring themselves to do so) through a third party like, for e.g, Community Restorative Justice Ireland. The police no longer come up against the 'whatever you say, say nothing' culture, though I appreciate that things may not have changed so much in areas like south Armagh. The big problem the PSNI have now is meeting the peoples expectations in terms of their response times and effectiveness. That's a world away from the days when the RUC couldn't go into west Belfast without military back up.

[Maguire01]

What do you mean by cooperating?
People ring them when their house is broke in to, they've always done that as they've always had to do that for the insurance.

No, I mean coming forward and giving information, giving witness statements etc. Sorting out your own insurance requirements isn't cooperating with the police.

If local people are cooperating, then that's a clear sign of a massive change in attitude to the police. If they're not, then they can't complain when crimes aren't solved.

[orangeman]

I think you'll find that the police are still not made welcome in many nationalist/ republican parts of the North. There might be more RC recruits but they're a very nervous bunch. They don't know really what is going to happen. It's still not a nice job for a catholic.