Hunger strike commemoration at a GAA ground

[Main Street]

you still know the square root of feck all about football as well as the topic of northern travesty etc !
you prove this time and again with your ill informed comments.

That was addressed to Maguire

I have come across an amount of "Northern Travesty", especially in the Derry threads.
I admit, there are some perplexing aspects 

Maguire do you really believe that the hatred of all things Gael, directed at the GAA by right wing Unionist (which includes a few that come on to this thread), has actually any real connection to how GAA grounds are used on occasion in the North?

[Maguire01]

OK I might be out here on my own about this one, but where these people not convicted terrorists? Alot of people consider terrorism a form of criminality. So you could say that criminals should not have special status!

Well said. And a starving man that steals a banana from a banana farm to feed his starving child is nothing more than a thief.

Regardless of your political persuasion and your view on whether members of paramilitary organisations were terrorists or heroes, that's a ridiculous comparison and has no credibility.

Why? Is criminality not black and white? Theft is a crime as is terrorism. Criminals the lot of them!

Criminality is clearly not black and white - that's my point. Furthermore, some crimes are more serious than others.

its your (and people like you) a la carte cherry picking and lack of consistency that caused all the problems in the first place.

all very well taking 'high moral ground'  ragarding people that used violence to counter violence.
Neither were right, but it was a necessity and has ended up granting a more peaceful and equal society in the north of Ireland.
easy for you when skulking below the border most of yer life.

I remember you once lecturing me that i "assume too much". Once again you've shown your inconsistency and hypocricy (as in the case of posting the contents of a PM).

But for your information, I've lived more than two-thirds of my life north of the border.

am assuming nothing here, as for whatever length of time you have lived  in the north of Ireland, you still know the square root of feck all about football as well as the topic of northern travesty etc !
you prove this time and again with your ill informed comments.

Well you assumed that I was "skulking below the border most of [my] life". And you assumed wrong.
And as for your dig on my football knowledge - ooooh, it hurts sooo much  You must really be running out of ideas.

Anyway, lets not pull this thread off-track.

[Fear ón Srath Bán]

How do you know that Kingsmill was not a sanctioned IRA operation? Because the IRA leadership said so? This would be the same IRA leadership which denied for years any involvement in the fate of the Disappeared, the same leadership which lied and lied whenever it suited its purposes to do so and it thought it could get away with it? The same leadership which is even now having to explain to its own rank and file some of the discrepancies surrounding its account of the hunger strike negotiations with the British government? That's okay then - so long as you got it from a reliable source  Also, your explanation of the 'rationale' behind the Kingsmill attack is very familiar. It closely mirrors the justification used by loyalist paramilitaries for their murder of innocent Catholics, namely that it was aimed at putting pressure on republicans to stop their attacks on security forces by using the wider nationalist community almost as hostages. Like I said earlier, there was very little difference between loyalist and republican armed groups.

More blinkered bullshit from someone who's obviously ashamed of his Irishness. Try to learn to use the quotes eh? You're confused enough without that further obfuscation.

Yabba Dabba Do Any Taig Will Do or Kill Them All Let God Sort Them Out (originally used by the Jesuits, ironically, but then history isn't one of your loyalist friends' strong points) are not defenders' war-cries. Now, tell me, what are/were the Republican equivalents?

[Myles Na G.]

The Provisional IRA were the defenders of the Catholic population

Hmmmm ... tell that to Jean McConville's family. Or to the families of the hundreds of other Catholics they murdered and "disappeared". Some defending.

hundreds !!

come on hardy, artistic licence only goes so far.
Yes their 'defending' was of hundreds of thousands ...
plenty were grateful for it given what was heppening to the nationalist/Irish/catholic community

Artistic licence?
There's a post earlier in this article showing that republican paramilitaries killed 447 Catholics. In total, approximately 650 IRA victims were civilians - I don't think it really matters whether they were Catholic or Protestant.
So whether or not you agree/agreed with IRA actions, or think they were justified, it's fact that these numbers are in the hundreds.

in comparison to the hundreds of thousands saved/protected...

I'd still like to see the real stats though

anyhow, you dont do your research on the allegations you make yourself ....maybe better sit down and find out more before you spend/waste more of your life in the six counties ill informed and making dumb accusations/statements!

You're a gas, LB.

[Maguire01]

Maguire do you really believe that the hatred of all things Gael, directed at the GAA by right wing Unionist (which includes a few that come on to this thread), has actually any real connection to how GAA grounds are used on occasion in the North?

Main Street, I've already said explicitly that iIm not even slightly concerned with what McCausland and his 'colleagues' think about the GAA. I'm well aware that they'll never accept the GAA, no matter what. So it's not about appeasing the right-wing Unionists. At the same time, events like this just give them ammunition and publicity - an opportunity to throw mud.

For me, it's about keeping the sport and the politics separate, for the sake of the Association. It's not about doing it for anyone else. Although it's fair to say that such events aren't doing the Association any favours in the eyes of moderate Unionists or Protestants in the north and won't help the GAA's attempts to attract people from these communities.

[lynchbhoy]

OK I might be out here on my own about this one, but where these people not convicted terrorists? Alot of people consider terrorism a form of criminality. So you could say that criminals should not have special status!

Well said. And a starving man that steals a banana from a banana farm to feed his starving child is nothing more than a thief.

Regardless of your political persuasion and your view on whether members of paramilitary organisations were terrorists or heroes, that's a ridiculous comparison and has no credibility.

Why? Is criminality not black and white? Theft is a crime as is terrorism. Criminals the lot of them!

Criminality is clearly not black and white - that's my point. Furthermore, some crimes are more serious than others.

its your (and people like you) a la carte cherry picking and lack of consistency that caused all the problems in the first place.

all very well taking 'high moral ground'  ragarding people that used violence to counter violence.
Neither were right, but it was a necessity and has ended up granting a more peaceful and equal society in the north of Ireland.
easy for you when skulking below the border most of yer life.

I remember you once lecturing me that i "assume too much". Once again you've shown your inconsistency and hypocricy (as in the case of posting the contents of a PM).

But for your information, I've lived more than two-thirds of my life north of the border.

funny you should mention 'MY' hypocricy when you yerself broke you own pledge to me via your bleating pm some time ago professing that you wouldnt go commenting on my posts etc etc ....and you had no prob going back on yer own statement to break this in that other thread you mention....I let it pass then but as you are keen to keep up the bullsh*t, then check out yer own hypocricy ! !

Touche ! ! !

[Maguire01]

OK I might be out here on my own about this one, but where these people not convicted terrorists? Alot of people consider terrorism a form of criminality. So you could say that criminals should not have special status!

Well said. And a starving man that steals a banana from a banana farm to feed his starving child is nothing more than a thief.

Regardless of your political persuasion and your view on whether members of paramilitary organisations were terrorists or heroes, that's a ridiculous comparison and has no credibility.

Why? Is criminality not black and white? Theft is a crime as is terrorism. Criminals the lot of them!

Criminality is clearly not black and white - that's my point. Furthermore, some crimes are more serious than others.

its your (and people like you) a la carte cherry picking and lack of consistency that caused all the problems in the first place.

all very well taking 'high moral ground'  ragarding people that used violence to counter violence.
Neither were right, but it was a necessity and has ended up granting a more peaceful and equal society in the north of Ireland.
easy for you when skulking below the border most of yer life.

I remember you once lecturing me that i "assume too much". Once again you've shown your inconsistency and hypocricy (as in the case of posting the contents of a PM).

But for your information, I've lived more than two-thirds of my life north of the border.

funny you should mention 'MY' hypocricy when you yerself broke you own pledge to me via your bleating pm some time ago professing that you wouldnt go commenting on my posts etc etc ....and you had no prob going back on yer own statement to break this in that other thread you mention....I let it pass then but as you are keen to keep up the bullsh*t, then check out yer own hypocricy ! !

What can I say - I just don't have the will power! I see someone with a spade in their hand and I just have to help them dig.
But once again you break your own rules on internet etiquette by publicising the details of a PM. 
But don't worry, i'm not that sensitive.

Touche ! ! !

And as i'm sure you're aware, Touché is an acknowledgement of your opponent's success. It's good to see that you came around in the end. 

[Zapatista]

Irish Unionists of all shades will continue to have little or nothing to do with such an organisation. 

That post contradicts itself a little.



Can certain posters edit the quotes to the post you are responding to please? It's very difficult to read.

[Myles Na G.]

More blinkered bullshit from someone who's obviously ashamed of his Irishness. Try to learn to use the quotes eh? You're confused enough without that further obfuscation.

Yabba Dabba Do Any Taig Will Do or Kill Them All Let God Sort Them Out (originally used by the Jesuits, ironically, but then history isn't one of your loyalist friends' strong points) are not defenders' war-cries. Now, tell me, what are/were the Republican equivalents?

Apologies for the cut and paste - there's a glitch on my computer which means when I use the quote facility, I can't see what I'm typing. (that explains a lot, sez you  )
Enough of the pleasantries: why do you conclude that I'm ashamed to be Irish? Genuine question. As for your other comments - seriously, like, I'm not going to get into a discussion about which group of paramilitaries had the best sectarian chants. 

[johnpower]

Maguire I agree 100% with you .

[Main Street]

Irish Unionists of all shades will continue to have little or nothing to do with such an organisation. 

That post contradicts itself a little.



Can certain posters edit the quotes to the post you are responding to please? It's very difficult to read.

is this better?

Irish Unionists of all shades will continue to have little or nothing to do with such an organisation. 

[Zapatista]

is this better?


Irish Unionists of all shades will continue to have little or nothing to do with such an organisation.

I'm not sure of your point.

[Fear ón Srath Bán]

Enough of the pleasantries: why do you conclude that I'm ashamed to be Irish? Genuine question. As for your other comments - seriously, like, I'm not going to get into a discussion about which group of paramilitaries had the best sectarian chants. 

Any neutral commentator or historian will adjudge that the loyalist paramilitaries were simply sectarian killers (Susan Mc Kay, a northern Protestant, for example), who in reality counted success by the dead body count of Catholics alone, where their victims' total innocence was an irrelevance to them. Those same commentators will concede that the IRA had political criteria as the primary determinant of their targets. Hence it didn't matter whether an RUC or UDR man was Catholic or Protestant. And I draw a fundamental distinction here between what you are born by chance and what you become by choice, and when you choose to become an armed player in a political conflict it's not unexpected that you'll be targeted as a result. The IRA expected that too, and it was all a fairly nasty business.

Of all the operations that the loyalists have carried out can you cite ten that didn't involve the deliberate targeting of innocent Catholics? I know you can cite ten dubious IRA operations of the thousands that they carried out, but I'll be surprised if can quote the reverse for the loyalists.

Therefore, if you see one as fundamentally bad as the other here, I can only conclude that you're guilt ridden about something, and therefore you have to tell yourself that one was as bad as the other to rationalise it within your own mind, i.e., if you're shameful of some aspect of your Irishness you need to pin it on something, and ascribing equal baseness to both the IRA and the loyalist paramilitaries would be one way of squaring that circle.

[Main Street]

Maguire do you really believe that the hatred of all things Gael, directed at the GAA by right wing Unionist (which includes a few that come on to this thread), has actually any real connection to how GAA grounds are used on occasion in the North?

Main Street, I've already said explicitly that iIm not even slightly concerned with what McCausland and his 'colleagues' think about the GAA. I'm well aware that they'll never accept the GAA, no matter what. So it's not about appeasing the right-wing Unionists. At the same time, events like this just give them ammunition and publicity - an opportunity to throw mud.

For me, it's about keeping the sport and the politics separate, for the sake of the Association. It's not about doing it for anyone else. Although it's fair to say that such events aren't doing the Association any favours in the eyes of moderate Unionists or Protestants in the north and won't help the GAA's attempts to attract people from these communities.

Fair enough then this is probaby what lynchboy was referring to when he talked of northern travesty.
The GAA is not a part of the forces that want to keep people apart or keep Irish sport away from schools.

Did you ever think it might be a good beginning to strip mcCausland of any political responsibility for his attempts to raise levels of hatred and vitriol against another section of the community who are merely engaging in a peacefull civil commemoration.

[Main Street]

is this better?


Irish Unionists of all shades will continue to have little or nothing to do with such an organisation.

I'm not sure of your point.

you wrote
"Can certain posters edit the quotes to the post you are responding to please? It's very difficult to read."

I gave a demonstration that it is possible to edit the quote of the post you are responding to make it easier to read.
Obviously that was not an answer to your question even though it looked like it to me that it was an answer to your question.
Why do I bother?