Author Topic: The Super(ish) Leeds United Thread  (Read 70235 times)

Rufus T Firefly

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Re: The Super(ish) Leeds United Thread
« Reply #450 on: November 02, 2015, 12:52:26 PM »
What is O'Leary's legacy amongst Leeds fans now?

He will always be associated with a period that brought the Club to its knees, and for that reason his name will be mud amongst a lot of the support.

However for me, the ultimate responsibility rests with those who oversaw the finances and were prepared to sanction a transfer policy that was built on the need to make the Champions League each year, at a time when only the top three made it through.


Billys Boots

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Re: The Super(ish) Leeds United Thread
« Reply #451 on: November 02, 2015, 01:37:05 PM »
Ridsdale. End of.
My hands are stained with thistle milk ...

smelmoth

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Re: The Super(ish) Leeds United Thread
« Reply #452 on: November 02, 2015, 01:42:06 PM »
O'Leary at Leeds and Harry at Pompey cannot escape significant responsibility for the wholesale mismanagement of those clubs. It's also very difficult to attribute any measure of success to them as individuals as most managers can improve results if given a runaway budget

Billys Boots

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Re: The Super(ish) Leeds United Thread
« Reply #453 on: November 02, 2015, 01:47:27 PM »
That was a decent Leeds team - got to a Champions League semi on merit.  The problem was that there was a transfer budget that wasn't matched by an appropriate wages budget, or at least a sustainable wages budget. 
My hands are stained with thistle milk ...

Tony Baloney

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Re: The Super(ish) Leeds United Thread
« Reply #454 on: November 02, 2015, 01:48:15 PM »
O'Leary at Leeds and Harry at Pompey cannot escape significant responsibility for the wholesale mismanagement of those clubs. It's also very difficult to attribute any measure of success to them as individuals as most managers can improve results if given a runaway budget
The responsibility lies with the people above the managerial level. If the manager is overspending, buying crap players, not getting results or all of the above, then it is the job of the men at the top to show them the door. Ridsdale has to should the blame.

smelmoth

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Re: The Super(ish) Leeds United Thread
« Reply #455 on: November 02, 2015, 01:59:36 PM »
O'Leary at Leeds and Harry at Pompey cannot escape significant responsibility for the wholesale mismanagement of those clubs. It's also very difficult to attribute any measure of success to them as individuals as most managers can improve results if given a runaway budget
The responsibility lies with the people above the managerial level. If the manager is overspending, buying crap players, not getting results or all of the above, then it is the job of the men at the top to show them the door. Ridsdale has to should the blame.

Nobody is saying Risdale et al are not to blame but the idea that a manager can keep spending and never ask where it is coming from doesn't stack up. If say Norwich got in a 35m+ bidding war with Chelsea for Stones do you think Alex Neill would ask a few questions?

screenexile

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Re: The Super(ish) Leeds United Thread
« Reply #456 on: November 02, 2015, 02:02:53 PM »
O'Leary at Leeds and Harry at Pompey cannot escape significant responsibility for the wholesale mismanagement of those clubs. It's also very difficult to attribute any measure of success to them as individuals as most managers can improve results if given a runaway budget
The responsibility lies with the people above the managerial level. If the manager is overspending, buying crap players, not getting results or all of the above, then it is the job of the men at the top to show them the door. Ridsdale has to should the blame.

Nobody is saying Risdale et al are not to blame but the idea that a manager can keep spending and never ask where it is coming from doesn't stack up. If say Norwich got in a 35m+ bidding war with Chelsea for Stones do you think Alex Neill would ask a few questions?

If the people holding the purse strings give you the go ahead why wouldn't you?!!

smelmoth

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Re: The Super(ish) Leeds United Thread
« Reply #457 on: November 02, 2015, 02:06:41 PM »
O'Leary at Leeds and Harry at Pompey cannot escape significant responsibility for the wholesale mismanagement of those clubs. It's also very difficult to attribute any measure of success to them as individuals as most managers can improve results if given a runaway budget
The responsibility lies with the people above the managerial level. If the manager is overspending, buying crap players, not getting results or all of the above, then it is the job of the men at the top to show them the door. Ridsdale has to should the blame.

Nobody is saying Risdale et al are not to blame but the idea that a manager can keep spending and never ask where it is coming from doesn't stack up. If say Norwich got in a 35m+ bidding war with Chelsea for Stones do you think Alex Neill would ask a few questions?

If the people holding the purse strings give you the go ahead why wouldn't you?!!

Because you have an ounce of wit?

Because you know nothing can be built on a burning platform?

AZOffaly

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Re: The Super(ish) Leeds United Thread
« Reply #458 on: November 02, 2015, 02:18:34 PM »
If you are a manager, and told you can spend millions to get the best players in, you wouldn't spend it?

You'd be in a minority of one I'd say. I doubt David O'Leary negotiated wage deals with individual players, and if I remember correctly, a lot of their problems were due to stupid personal terms they negotiated with players.

smelmoth

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Re: The Super(ish) Leeds United Thread
« Reply #459 on: November 02, 2015, 02:21:22 PM »
If you are a manager, and told you can spend millions to get the best players in, you wouldn't spend it?

You'd be in a minority of one I'd say. I doubt David O'Leary negotiated wage deals with individual players, and if I remember correctly, a lot of their problems were due to stupid personal terms they negotiated with players.

What positive examples of spending a load of money you don't have would be going through your mind?

Billys Boots

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Re: The Super(ish) Leeds United Thread
« Reply #460 on: November 02, 2015, 02:25:51 PM »
Not for one second am I saying that O'Leary acted sensibly.  In his defence, what was he expected to know or understand about club finances if he was assured that the money was there for him to build a team that he (and the club executive) wanted? 
My hands are stained with thistle milk ...

AZOffaly

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Re: The Super(ish) Leeds United Thread
« Reply #461 on: November 02, 2015, 02:28:19 PM »
The manager is told he *does* have it. That's the point. He's not the one responsible for the purse strings. It's like any business, you get told what your budget is, and you have to either operate within that budget, or else look for more money.

If the lad controlling the purse strings is allocating money he doesn't have, then that's where the primary blame lies. I'd blame the manager if the players he buys aren't up to it, but I can't blame him for stupid wages, or if he's been given money to spend that the club didn't actually have.

smelmoth

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Re: The Super(ish) Leeds United Thread
« Reply #462 on: November 02, 2015, 02:32:11 PM »
Not for one second am I saying that O'Leary acted sensibly.  In his defence, what was he expected to know or understand about club finances if he was assured that the money was there for him to build a team that he (and the club executive) wanted?

He could reasonably be expected to ask the basic questions about the funding of an exponential increase in spending

AZOffaly

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Re: The Super(ish) Leeds United Thread
« Reply #463 on: November 02, 2015, 02:34:59 PM »
Not for one second am I saying that O'Leary acted sensibly.  In his defence, what was he expected to know or understand about club finances if he was assured that the money was there for him to build a team that he (and the club executive) wanted?

He could reasonably be expected to ask the basic questions about the funding of an exponential increase in spending

What do you think he should have done? He's an employee of the club, like anyone else. He is not responsible for allocating the money, he is only responsible for spending it and getting good value for what he spends.

I also doubt he had anything to do with the stupid wage setup.

Do you think he should have said "Lads, I don't think we can afford this fella, stop giving me money?"

As I said, I think he'd be in a minority of one if he did. Managers always want to be improving their squad.

smelmoth

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Re: The Super(ish) Leeds United Thread
« Reply #464 on: November 02, 2015, 02:37:08 PM »
The manager is told he *does* have it. That's the point. He's not the one responsible for the purse strings. It's like any business, you get told what your budget is, and you have to either operate within that budget, or else look for more money.

If the lad controlling the purse strings is allocating money he doesn't have, then that's where the primary blame lies. I'd blame the manager if the players he buys aren't up to it, but I can't blame him for stupid wages, or if he's been given money to spend that the club didn't actually have.

So a manager just continues spending magicked up money until the creditors close in and leave the fans with a crock of sh1t?