Limerick v Tipperary AI Semi Final 16th August 2009

[EddieMerx]

Rumour has it Cody has told the panel not to bother training from here until the final and that the players should enjoy what's left of the summer. I think after seeing Tipp yesterday Cody decided it was pointless even trying to compete and he is praying for a swine flu outbreak in Tipp.

[Farrandeelin]

No offence to any hurling people but I fell asleep in the second half. Morrissey wouldn't kep anyone awake either. Fair play to Tipp though, I'd say they will relish taking on the cats.

[ormondeboy]

Tipp have to be red-hot favourites for the final after that pretty awesome demolition job. Tipp were going at half-pelt, yet still racked up a huge 6-19. Imagine if they had enjoyed a spell of that awesome hurling they showed in patches in earlier championship games.

People will talk up Kilkenny, but lets face it, thats on the back of last year's championship. Tipp are the best team in this year's championship. They have clinically demolished anyone that came before them, while on the other hand Kilkenny have struggled against Galway, Waterford (who Tipp destroyed) and Dublin (who were beaten by that Limerick team). Tipp are the form team. Kilkenny aren't. Kilkenny are a tired, jaded outfit on the decline. The years are taking their toll. The miles have built up and fatigue and apathy have set in.

I repeat, Tipp are red-hot favourites for the all-Ireland. I only hope Kilkenny can give them a bit of a game, for the sake of hurling. Stay with them til half-time at least.

If you feel so strongly about it, I'd take Tipp at 100/30 at Cashmans bt. 1/4 KKK.

[ormondeboy]

Tipp have to be red-hot favourites for the final after that pretty awesome demolition job. Tipp were going at half-pelt, yet still racked up a huge 6-19. Imagine if they had enjoyed a spell of that awesome hurling they showed in patches in earlier championship games.

People will talk up Kilkenny, but lets face it, thats on the back of last year's championship. Tipp are the best team in this year's championship. They have clinically demolished anyone that came before them, while on the other hand Kilkenny have struggled against Galway, Waterford (who Tipp destroyed) and Dublin (who were beaten by that Limerick team). Tipp are the form team. Kilkenny aren't. Kilkenny are a tired, jaded outfit on the decline. The years are taking their toll. The miles have built up and fatigue and apathy have set in.

I repeat, Tipp are red-hot favourites for the all-Ireland. I only hope Kilkenny can give them a bit of a game, for the sake of hurling. Stay with them til half-time at least.

If you feel so strongly about it, I'd take Tipp at 100/30 at Cashmans bt. 1/4 KKK.

Eh, typo there. Should of course read 1/4 KK.

[bottlethrower7]

Tipp have to be red-hot favourites for the final after that pretty awesome demolition job. Tipp were going at half-pelt, yet still racked up a huge 6-19. Imagine if they had enjoyed a spell of that awesome hurling they showed in patches in earlier championship games.

People will talk up Kilkenny, but lets face it, thats on the back of last year's championship. Tipp are the best team in this year's championship. They have clinically demolished anyone that came before them, while on the other hand Kilkenny have struggled against Galway, Waterford (who Tipp destroyed) and Dublin (who were beaten by that Limerick team). Tipp are the form team. Kilkenny aren't. Kilkenny are a tired, jaded outfit on the decline. The years are taking their toll. The miles have built up and fatigue and apathy have set in.

I repeat, Tipp are red-hot favourites for the all-Ireland. I only hope Kilkenny can give them a bit of a game, for the sake of hurling. Stay with them til half-time at least.

LOL!!! Great one there BT!!!

Sure why would Kilkenny even bother showing up after all they've won, they indeed must be exhausted from walking up the Hogan Stand stairs each September. Beginning to be a bit of a pain in butt...all that ceremonial crap!

Great stuff!!! Hope all is well and best of luck in the final.

Howaya Kevin. Yeah, I heard they were considering whether to turn up or not. I think they have to do or there'll be trouble. But its a damned if you do, damned if you don't situation - play the game and sure, you avoid all the boardroom hassles. But play the game and you also have the Tipp hordes traipsing through Urlingford and Johnstown (the ones that don't know about the new motorway), leaving their affluent. And thats not to mention the hammering Kerwick and co will dish out.

who'd be a Kilkenny hurler....

[bottlethrower7]

No offence to any hurling people but I fell asleep in the second half. Morrissey wouldn't kep anyone awake either. Fair play to Tipp though, I'd say they will relish taking on the cats.

thats no bother. Football has that affect on me

[bottlethrower7]

Tipp have to be red-hot favourites for the final after that pretty awesome demolition job. Tipp were going at half-pelt, yet still racked up a huge 6-19. Imagine if they had enjoyed a spell of that awesome hurling they showed in patches in earlier championship games.

People will talk up Kilkenny, but lets face it, thats on the back of last year's championship. Tipp are the best team in this year's championship. They have clinically demolished anyone that came before them, while on the other hand Kilkenny have struggled against Galway, Waterford (who Tipp destroyed) and Dublin (who were beaten by that Limerick team). Tipp are the form team. Kilkenny aren't. Kilkenny are a tired, jaded outfit on the decline. The years are taking their toll. The miles have built up and fatigue and apathy have set in.

I repeat, Tipp are red-hot favourites for the all-Ireland. I only hope Kilkenny can give them a bit of a game, for the sake of hurling. Stay with them til half-time at least.

If you feel so strongly about it, I'd take Tipp at 100/30 at Cashmans bt. 1/4 KKK.

I stand corrected over what I said before about ye're defence. I though O'Mahony had a fine game at 6 and Maher likewise at 3 on sunday. The defense overall looks to have a nice balance to it lining out that way.

And other question marks I had were put to bed - I hadn't really rated Pat Kerwick from what I'd seen of him, but he was busy throughout. And showed he can finish. And both the Borrisoleigh lads at the back look very capable.

The only question mark that remains for me about Tipp is in midfield. I don't think you're particularly strong there. McGrath is good when on song, but hes not had a good year this year. Brendan Cummins should have made way for Darren Gleeson in the league also. Hes too error-prone at this stage of his career. But not so much that he'd ever prove the difference in any given game.

[INDIANA]

I can't believe how much stock you're putting in a performance against a team that had a complete off day. I mean how many short lists of all-ireland winners were Limerick on?
Answer- it begins with "n" and ends in"e".

[bottlethrower7]

I can't believe how much stock you're putting in a performance against a team that had a complete off day. I mean how many short lists of all-ireland winners were Limerick on?
Answer- it begins with "n" and ends in"e".

well as and of 2 saturdays ago they'd have been 4th on my list of possible winners.

[ormondeboy3]

Tipp have to be red-hot favourites for the final after that pretty awesome demolition job. Tipp were going at half-pelt, yet still racked up a huge 6-19. Imagine if they had enjoyed a spell of that awesome hurling they showed in patches in earlier championship games.

People will talk up Kilkenny, but lets face it, thats on the back of last year's championship. Tipp are the best team in this year's championship. They have clinically demolished anyone that came before them, while on the other hand Kilkenny have struggled against Galway, Waterford (who Tipp destroyed) and Dublin (who were beaten by that Limerick team). Tipp are the form team. Kilkenny aren't. Kilkenny are a tired, jaded outfit on the decline. The years are taking their toll. The miles have built up and fatigue and apathy have set in.

I repeat, Tipp are red-hot favourites for the all-Ireland. I only hope Kilkenny can give them a bit of a game, for the sake of hurling. Stay with them til half-time at least.

If you feel so strongly about it, I'd take Tipp at 100/30 at Cashmans bt. 1/4 KKK.

I stand corrected over what I said before about ye're defence. I though O'Mahony had a fine game at 6 and Maher likewise at 3 on sunday. The defense overall looks to have a nice balance to it lining out that way.

And other question marks I had were put to bed - I hadn't really rated Pat Kerwick from what I'd seen of him, but he was busy throughout. And showed he can finish. And both the Borrisoleigh lads at the back look very capable.

The only question mark that remains for me about Tipp is in midfield. I don't think you're particularly strong there. McGrath is good when on song, but hes not had a good year this year. Brendan Cummins should have made way for Darren Gleeson in the league also. Hes too error-prone at this stage of his career. But not so much that he'd ever prove the difference in any given game.

I'd be happy enough with the hurlin' and aggression in the back 6 as of now. As you said midfield is a serious concern. Shane McGrath has not fired properly this year since his illness and Sheedy has not really groomed another to confidently replace him. Gearóid Ryan has not done enough. Benny Dunne is best suited to coming on when the game is looosened up (and not in the crucible) as he'll read the game well and use the ball reasonably ok. He'll not swing a midfield for 70 minutes I fear. Tomás Stapleton must be injured? Hugh Maloney should have been tried there earlier. Sheedy seems intent on using him as a half-forward which is crazy. He was not even considered for midfield on Sunday with both midfielders replaced? I admire Woodlock's workrate and phyicallity, but I don't think he has the savy or ability to process ball efficiently between half-back to half-forward lines. His distribution can be loose.

Our half-forward line is more problematic. Kerwick will work hard all day long and can take a score. Not as refined as John O'Brien or Callinan but what you see is what you get. John O'Brien is having a fine season foraging back around midfield and delivering good ball inside. He'll have to be on-top of his game for the final picking up Tommy Walsh. Consistency has been John's problem up to this point, but this has been his best intercounty season since 2001. His work-rate has been admirable and will be needed again and more against the hardest working team in the game. Callinan is Callinan, maybe he'll mature into a more rounded player but I'd be worried how honest he'll keep Tennyson/Hogan. If John O'B doesn't break even and Callinan does not do the basics (like stand under his man for long-ball/puck-outs) we'll be beaten well as the KK attack will benefit from the surplus of service that our inside line should be receiving.

[INDIANA]

I can't believe how much stock you're putting in a performance against a team that had a complete off day. I mean how many short lists of all-ireland winners were Limerick on?
Answer- it begins with "n" and ends in"e".

well as and of 2 saturdays ago they'd have been 4th on my list of possible winners.

Can you honestly see how the tipp half forward will break even with the kilkenny half line because I can't.

[bottlethrower7]

I can't believe how much stock you're putting in a performance against a team that had a complete off day. I mean how many short lists of all-ireland winners were Limerick on?
Answer- it begins with "n" and ends in"e".

well as and of 2 saturdays ago they'd have been 4th on my list of possible winners.

Can you honestly see how the tipp half forward will break even with the kilkenny half line because I can't.

2/3s of them shouldn't and the other third shouldn't most of the time. But Callinan is lightening quick - and could pose Brian Hogan problems if gets the chance to run at him. I'd expect Hogan to outsmart him in the air though, so supply could be limited.

To be honest I haven't even thought about the game. My point, badly made, was to highlight the folly of how the favourites tag gets attributed to a team in hurling. And its more a dig at the print and telly media than anything else. To me it shows how unobjective the media are when it comes to hurling. Everything is based on preconceptions - what someone or some team has done in the past - often in the distant past.

Take the Dublin-Kerry football game that happened there not too long ago. As far as I can see, Kerry were in the Kilkenny position going into that match. They were a team made up of players that we all know to be hugely talented. They hadn't come close to their potential at all this year, and people were quick to write them off as a result. Dublin were red-hot favourites based on their performances and their results to that point in the championship. Then look what happened.

The outcome of that game is irrelevant. Its the attitudes that were taken pre the game. They were logical. They were based on recent fact.

I see the hurling final pairing as a parallel to that case. Kilkenny are a team are made up of players that we all know to be hugely talented. They haven't come close to their potential at all this year. Tipp on the other hand have destroyed every team in their path - acknowledged they haven't been able to sustain the high levels they've played at in certain period of certain games - but then again, we can probably attribute that largely to the heart shown by their opponents in the closing stages of those games. Now, coming up to the final no one gives Tipp an asses roar of a chance.

Do I think Kilkenny will win? No, not really. I don't think they won't win. I haven't sat down to figure out what I think. It might be pointless to do so. Nobody really knows how good Tipp are or how bad Kilkenny are. Chances are we'll see a side of both teams not seen before. Chances are we won't. We won't know until the day. How can one predict how the Tipp defense will hold up the Kilkenny forward line, given we can't know how that Kilkenny forward line will perform. Likewise Tipp. Their full-forward line has potential to do a lot of damage, but will their supposed shortcomings out the field mean a limited supply for the inside line?

And what of hunger? Can Kilkenny possibly match Tipp's hunger given they're the new kids on the block (so to speak)? Or Tipps nerves in their first final in 8 years?

Who knows?

[Zulu]

Tipp on the other hand have destroyed every team in their path

Eh? They far from destroyed either Clare or Waterford, sure they needed a good save from Cummins to prevent Clare getting a draw. I agree they were the better team in both games and maybe the final scoreline flattered the losers but destroyed they weren't. I also think it's a bit fanciful to describe Kilkenny's performances as poor this year, they beat Waterford as comfortably as Tipp did, yet you think one team destroyed Waterford and the other were poor in winning, your logic escapes me I'm afraid.

As for ignoring the past, well you can't do that in sport, if a team has shown the ability to reach certain heights in the very recent past then it's fair to say they are probably capable of reaching them in the near future too. Kilkenny's favouritism is at least as logical as Dublin's was against Kerry.

[bottlethrower7]

Tipp on the other hand have destroyed every team in their path

Eh? They far from destroyed either Clare or Waterford, sure they needed a good save from Cummins to prevent Clare getting a draw. I agree they were the better team in both games and maybe the final scoreline flattered the losers but destroyed they weren't. I also think it's a bit fanciful to describe Kilkenny's performances as poor this year, they beat Waterford as comfortably as Tipp did, yet you think one team destroyed Waterford and the other were poor in winning, your logic escapes me I'm afraid.

As for ignoring the past, well you can't do that in sport, if a team has shown the ability to reach certain heights in the very recent past then it's fair to say they are probably capable of reaching them in the near future too. Kilkenny's favouritism is at least as logical as Dublin's was against Kerry.

during their periods of dominance they did fairly destroy everyone they played. No one had an answer for them. Can they repeat that for a sustained enough time in the final? If not, will it be enough. Another question to be pondered.

I agree that the past shouldn't be ignored. In fact that was the point I was trying to make, but also that the more recent past should be given more credence than what happened 6 months or a year ago. Its just not consistent.

Kilkenny never dominated Waterford the way Tipp did in the first half of the munster final. Yes, maybe Kilkenny were just doing enough to win, but we can't say that with any surety.

And as regards it being as logical that Dublin were favourites as Kilkenny were, thank you. That kind of furthers my point - the way the media applies the favourites tag to teams is based on little more than someone's opinion. I'm sure plenty had Kerry as favourites. The inconsistency is in the fact that a specific set of criteria was used for that game, while that same criteria is being ignored for the hurling final.

In my own opinion, the only way to view the final is on a man-for-man, assessing player for player as we know and believe them to be. Then compare that to their immediate opponents. And even that could prove hollow - again, how do you account for form when form could prove irrelevant (as it did in the Dublin-Kerry game). How do you predict conditions?

Don't mind me - this media-bashing come final time is almost an annual pastime for me at this stage.

[Premier Emperor]

You won't come across worse journalism than this!


The Day Hurling died   
Written by Donn O'Sullivan   
Thursday, 20 August 2009 08:24

The humiliating scoreline of the 2009 All Ireland hurling semi final between two great hurling traditionalists. Limerick are out of the championship and Liam Mc Carthy-less for the 36th year in a row. It's time to face the facts. Limerick is no longer a hurling county.

There may have been shame and humiliation on the pitch of Croke Park last Sunday, but the margin of defeat is not all the players fault. Nor is it the fault entirely of the management team.

Nor the County board for that matter. The main blame on this occasion lies with the GAA as a whole. Too long the GAA blazers have sat back, munched on the free triangle shaped sandwiches and supped tea. The organistation is crumbling beneath them. The values of what the GAA has been built on have been cast aside. Forgotten. The gap in excellence on the field last weekend was down to the GAA giving too much to the bigger fish and forgetting the smaller fries.

It would be easy for me this week to run a piece about how this fella was poor and that fella should have been taken off. What's done is done. Limerick's loss last weekend was as bad as it gets for Limerick fans. There is no point in me pouring salt in the wounds. We all know that the level of effort put in was not good enough. The skills one display were not there. The passion and pride, which Limerick hurling is so famous for, deserted the team and we had nothing. We have to look at the bigger picture to really see where the problems lie.

The fact that Tipperary are going for their 26th All Ireland title and Kilkenny are going for their 32nd, with a potential four in a row, just goes to show how hurling is becoming extinct. Cork have 30 titles and the nearest to them is Limerick with seven. The game has become top heavy. The superpowers are murdering the life of the game.

What benefit is it to players in Galway, Limerick, Wexford, Clare, Waterford and Antrim, to name a few, to have these sides winning every year. The real issue is this. When counties like Longford, Leitrim and Wicklow stopped hurling, the GAA did nothing. Now, Offaly, Limerick and Wexford are joining those sides in the barren lands that is championship defeats. I know people can argue that Kilkenny cannot support a football team nor can Longford make up 15 for a hurling team, but that is just the point. The GAA has not put the structures in place to promote the games which are essentially dead in some counties. Kerry no longer has a hurling team in the Munster championship, yet the GAA are okay with them having a dominant football side.

There are so many factors at work against the smaller counties. Take Limerick for example. Granted the under age structures are now being amended with the lifting of the treaty plan, but the fact that the hurlers are not coming through in the numbers needed goes down to bad planning on the county board level. There was a month this summer where not one county championship game was played. The inter county hurler got rusty and the club hurler got bored and disinterested. The rule of one win and you are safe allows teams to train for one big match and then forget about it. The same old teams are winning the county titles too. Am I repeating myself?

There is more competition for the GAA now than ever. When Munster are winning all the time and Torres and Rooney are on the screens all the time, why would a child pick up a hurley? Years ago fathers, mothers and primary school teachers were the ones that the GAA lived off of. Those men and women are now not as interested, even if they are at all, in the GAA. The time has come for radical change.

A 24 point loss in a semi final. In a tournament that has only eight teams that can win it each year. Three of whom are dominant. Seems to me that if hurling isn't dead, last weekend was the last rights.

A long, long time ago...

I can still remember
How hurling used to make
me smile.
And I knew if Limerick had their chance
They could make those
people dance
And, maybe, we'd be happy
for a while.

But February made me shiver
When every league match
failed to deliver
Bad news on the doorstep;
I couldn't take one more step.

I can't remember if I cried
When Corbett jumped,
three times with pride,
But something touched me
deep inside
The day Hurling died.

http://www.limerickpost.ie/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=997:the-day-hurling-died&catid=23:sport&Itemid=34