If we were to rank the top teams who would be the best 12 in order?

[Bogball XV]

My opinion based on games to date...

1. Cork
2. Kerry
3. Tyrone
4. Dublin
5. Kildare
6. Meath
7. Mayo
8. Limerick
9. Monaghan
10.Derry
11.Galway
12. Armagh

i know these are stupid and subjective etc, but given that in your own words these rankings are based on games to date, how could you possibly put monaghan above derry??  (and i won't even mention the high rankings attributed to the triumvirate of meath, mayo and limerick, although at least limerick did give the champions elect a game).

Point taken re Monaghan /Derry, I probably absed Monaghan ahead on some previous performances over the last year or two.

I wouldnty agree with you ref Meath, Mayo & Limerick - Meath after all were All-Ireland Semi Finalists & came within 4 points of Kerry, Mayo are Connacht champs. I would say that Meath or Mayo would beat any teams below them in the rankings I have given.

on occasion they might, on other occasions they wouldn't.  I think Meath overachieved this year and Mayo underachieved (yet again).  As a result i wouldn't be particularly confident of that Meath side beating any of the teams below them.  Limerick aren't a bad side, but they're nowehere near the top 8 teams in the country.  They managed victories over Clare and Tipperary in the championship and got relegated from div 3.

[Maigheo Abu]

1 - Kerry
2 - Tyrone
3 -- Armagh
4 - Galway
5 - Mayo
6 - Dublin
7 - Cork
8 - Derry
9 - Monaghan
10 - Derry
11 - Kildare
12 - Donegal

Just based on average performance over the last 9 years

[Jinxy]

 

[Bogball XV]

i think meath are the second derry (ranked 10)

[Zulu]

1. Cork - the best team in country with out a doubt in my mind.

2. Tyrone - are still the team everyone would fear.

3. Kerry - behind the first two and are likely to fall further behind in the coming years but could still end up champions in 2009.

4. Dublin - the first real contentious position, I think we'd all agree on the top 3 even if the order would change, but Dublin's recent tankings paint a false picture for me and I'd still put money on Dublin to beat any team outside the top 3 on most days.

5. Derry - arguments could be made for a number of teams here and there's little between Derry and the teams at 6, 7 or 8 but I feel they have the best panel outside the top 4 and if they get it together they could win some serious silverware.

6. Kildare - can they prove they are a quality team by becoming consistent quarter or semi finalists? I have my doubts but they looked a powerful team at times this year and were the only team who should have beaten Cork in the league. They've a few big players on the wrong side of 30 so if they've got the talent coming through they could be around for the foreseeable future.

7. Mayo - loads of decent inter county footballers but few, if any, class ones. They also lack real leaders and the fanaticism to training and improving that is required at this level, especially when you lack game winners like the Gooch, B. Brogan or SON. They could be beaten by every team below them on this list but they could also, on a given day, beat any team above them (bar Kerry).

8. Monaghan - need something different to push them on next year but they are still a good championship team and division 1 football and Grimley's input might help them find it. Not good enough to beat the top 3 in knockout football but more than capable of beating the other teams above them. If they were to catch a top team it would be Kerry, they wouldn't have a hope against Cork however.

9. Galway - they only lost to Mayo and Donegal by a point or two so they weren't too far away from making the QF's and if they had beaten Mayo and met Meath in the QF's I reckon they'd have made the semis. However they need to find a way of getting more out of their talented forwards and drop Joyce and Meehan from the team as they offer little as starting players in the big games.

10. Donegal - not anywhere near as bad as the Cork game would suggest and they have as many talented players as most top teams. Application and desire seem to be their biggest problems, like Mayo they don't seem to want it enough, unlike Mayo they have the extra bit of quality needed to do really well if they get it together.

11. Meath - they get the nod here even though I don't rate them at all, Armagh, Sligo, Limerick, Antrim, Fermanagh or even Wicklow could be put in here instead but I'll give Meath the nod by virtue of two semi final spots in 3 years. Most of their forwards are very good club players rather than very good IC ones IMO.

12. Limerick - like Meath this slot could go to a number of teams but I'm giving it to Limerick on the basis that they've ran Cork closer in the last two years than almost anyone else. People who knock them on the basis that they've only beaten Clare and Tipp are ignoring the fact that they can only beat Munster teams in their provincial championship. If Limerick were in any other province, Ulster included, they'd have taken some noteable scalps by now.

[agorm]

1 - Kerry
2 - Tyrone
3 -- Armagh
4 - Galway
5 - Mayo
6 - Dublin
7 - Cork
8 - Derry
9 - Monaghan
10 - Derry
11 - Kildare
12 - Donegal

Just based on average performance over the last 9 years

Welcome back Maigheo Abu, that was a long holiday

What did you think of the Meath Mayo game? Didnt see you on here after that.

I just noticed that only 1 of the top 8 teams that you have named have not won the All-Ireland over the last 20 years so maybe you could relook at your calculations based on other time frames not just an arbitrary 9 years.

There is a book called "How to Lie With Statistics " - looks like you have been reading it during your long holiday.

The only table that is any way relevant in this thread is where teams are now and I think your holiday left you a little out of touch.

[Bogball XV]

12. Limerick - like Meath this slot could go to a number of teams but I'm giving it to Limerick on the basis that they've ran Cork closer in the last two years than almost anyone else. People who knock them on the basis that they've only beaten Clare and Tipp are ignoring the fact that they can only beat Munster teams in their provincial championship. If Limerick were in any other province, Ulster included, they'd have taken some noteable scalps by now.

possibly, but to me limerick are a side who'll run everyone close, but won't beat too many, this would be backed up by their performances against tipp and clare where they were far from convincing winners.  Whilst league rankings and performances shouldn't be overly relied on, you have to look at limerick's relegation from div 3 as further indication that they lack real talent up front (jury has to be out on ryan).

[Zulu]

I wouldn't see it like that Bogball, Limerick have set themselves up to be defensive and tough to break down so even against the weaker teams they have problems putting up big scores. They do have some decent forwards though, Ryan is the real deal and Ger Collins and Cormac Joyce Power who are still U21 are very good too. Throw in Kelly and Buckley who are real speedsters and you have a pretty impressive forward line but they just don't commit to the attack as much as they should. If they can get a better balance between attacking and defending, pick up one or two more players and improve on a few areas they will be capable of beating most teams outside the top 6 or so. By the way they'll romp out of division 4 and will be at least a division 2 side within 3 years.

[INDIANA]

1. Cork - the best team in country with out a doubt in my mind.

2. Tyrone - are still the team everyone would fear.

3. Kerry - behind the first two and are likely to fall further behind in the coming years but could still end up champions in 2009.

4. Dublin - the first real contentious position, I think we'd all agree on the top 3 even if the order would change, but Dublin's recent tankings paint a false picture for me and I'd still put money on Dublin to beat any team outside the top 3 on most days.

5. Derry - arguments could be made for a number of teams here and there's little between Derry and the teams at 6, 7 or 8 but I feel they have the best panel outside the top 4 and if they get it together they could win some serious silverware.

6. Kildare - can they prove they are a quality team by becoming consistent quarter or semi finalists? I have my doubts but they looked a powerful team at times this year and were the only team who should have beaten Cork in the league. They've a few big players on the wrong side of 30 so if they've got the talent coming through they could be around for the foreseeable future.

7. Mayo - loads of decent inter county footballers but few, if any, class ones. They also lack real leaders and the fanaticism to training and improving that is required at this level, especially when you lack game winners like the Gooch, B. Brogan or SON. They could be beaten by every team below them on this list but they could also, on a given day, beat any team above them (bar Kerry).

8. Monaghan - need something different to push them on next year but they are still a good championship team and division 1 football and Grimley's input might help them find it. Not good enough to beat the top 3 in knockout football but more than capable of beating the other teams above them. If they were to catch a top team it would be Kerry, they wouldn't have a hope against Cork however.

9. Galway - they only lost to Mayo and Donegal by a point or two so they weren't too far away from making the QF's and if they had beaten Mayo and met Meath in the QF's I reckon they'd have made the semis. However they need to find a way of getting more out of their talented forwards and drop Joyce and Meehan from the team as they offer little as starting players in the big games.

10. Donegal - not anywhere near as bad as the Cork game would suggest and they have as many talented players as most top teams. Application and desire seem to be their biggest problems, like Mayo they don't seem to want it enough, unlike Mayo they have the extra bit of quality needed to do really well if they get it together.

11. Meath - they get the nod here even though I don't rate them at all, Armagh, Sligo, Limerick, Antrim, Fermanagh or even Wicklow could be put in here instead but I'll give Meath the nod by virtue of two semi final spots in 3 years. Most of their forwards are very good club players rather than very good IC ones IMO.

12. Limerick - like Meath this slot could go to a number of teams but I'm giving it to Limerick on the basis that they've ran Cork closer in the last two years than almost anyone else. People who knock them on the basis that they've only beaten Clare and Tipp are ignoring the fact that they can only beat Munster teams in their provincial championship. If Limerick were in any other province, Ulster included, they'd have taken some noteable scalps by now.

Zulu a team that has yet to win an all-ireland cannot be considered the best in the country. Just not possible.

[Zulu]

Why? The current AI champs in any year got that title by virtue of what they did last year, not this year. If you can't be regarded the best unless you are the current AI champions then the second best team must be last years beaten AI finalists, the 3rd and 4th best must be the beaten semi finalists and so on. I don't think that stands up to scrutiny and IMO last years performances should only be a factor in your analysis, not the defining criterion.

[INDIANA]

I don't agree. Winners are the best in any sport. No-one remembers losers. And unless you've got the silverware on the table you can't claim to be the best at anything. So until Cork win the all-ireland, they can only be ranked at number 2 at best for me at the moment.

[Zulu]

Well this is a matter of opinion of course so there is no absolute right or wrong answer but I don't accept you can't be ranked number one because you aren't AI champions. Tyrone are AI champions based on a game won 12 months ago, a lot can change in that time and I believe it has.

[Farrandeelin]

Good man Zulu, I agree with you that Mayo are not a top 4 team. Probably won't be for a long long long time either.

[mountainboii]

 

I can't believe Derry continue to fool people by throwing together the odd league win. What have they done in Championship football in the last decade to merit such continued high ranking? Most over rated team in the country by a mile.