AISF Aug 23rd Tyrone v Cork

[popinpoput]

See ger houlihan putting the boot in via the belfast tele. Saying Tyrone merely a good team as only great ones retain sam.

Hoully wasn't even part of a good team using his own logic.

[lynchbhoy]

Kerry might not reach the standard of the Dublin game again this year but it isn't because of their training program that they 'peaked' that day. All I'm saying is as a coach you can't get 30 individuals to 'peak' on a given day, so it isn't a goal you should set yourself.

have to say Zulu that looking at kerry fitness in their first couple of championship matches and comparing that with their fitness against Dublin - to me that defines it all about 'peaking'.

as a coach I wouldnt try to be getting 30 individuals to peak on a given day, I'd try to get the TEAM to peak !

[SidelineKick]

I don't understand why all of a sudden people are supposed to get behind a team simply because they are from the same province.  This would be the same team whose supporters you couldnt listen to from September last year until yesterday, giving bad manners about my county, other "lesser" counties, telling everyone how great they are and then being shocked when we don't get behind you? Also, I wonder would Tyrone folk be so sporting had that been Kerry that beat you yesterday?

[Estimator]

I don’t understand why all of a sudden people are supposed to get behind a team simply because they are from the same province.  This would be the same team whose supporters you couldnt listen to from September last year until yesterday, giving bad manners about my county, other “lesser” counties, telling everyone how great they are and then being shocked when we don’t get behind you? Also, I wonder would Tyrone folk be so sporting had that been Kerry that beat you yesterday?

Totally agree SLK

[JMohan]

If you were from Ulster I think you'd understand

[INDIANA]

Maybe it's terminology. You are attempting (Zulu) to but a very definitive, scientific, meaning to peaking. Maybe peaking is the wrong word, maybe it's momentum, improvement etc. All I know is that Kerry playing Limerick in the first round of the championship is not the same level of fitness, aggression, or sharpness (in thought or deed) as will be the case if they played Dublin in August, for example.

Peaking implies that you cannot go any further, as you say, so peaking is a slight misnomer.

As I said earlier this term of peaking is bullshit IMO. It's coined by sports sciencists to make themselves sound like geniuses. The correct term as someone said earlier is momentum. Defined as in my view as winning matches concurrently and also staying in a competition long enough so eventually you reach the top 10% percentile of performance.

This idea that Kerry were holding back against Longford and Sligo is crap. They weren't playing well but due to the inability of the above to seal the deal- kerry earned a stay of execution where they were able to rectify matters to produce something like their best against Dublin.

What I object to is sports science gurus claiming that this is all part of a master plan. Which is complete tosh. Sligo should have put Kerry out- that is only reason Kerry remain in the championship- not because they were waiting around to peak against Dublin which is complete garbage.

[Fuzzman]

Was thinking before the match how slow this thread was and reading it now it just seems like people had a lot of interest and thoughts but were just sitting on the fence as they didn't know what way the game would go.

read through some pages but not them all and agree with most people's thoughts that it was more Cork's awesome performance and hunger rather than Tyrone's collapse or non show display.

To be honest Cork could have won by more but then again had a few things went our way we could have maybe drawn level with them at crucial stages but alas it wasn't to be.
Was very angry with the ref as were many others and despite his obvious bad calls such as the second yellow, he might some brutal decisions against Tyrone with men fouling them but waved play on. SoN's shirt showing some evidence.

I was amazed we continued to run the ball into Cork's defensive wall on their 40 as time and time again we lost possession.
Would it not have been better to kick long ball into the FF line were at least SON and Penrose were winning at least 50% of what was be kicked into them

It was very frustrating to watch the same mistake being made again & again with no-one taking charge of the situation to change to plan B or C.

Congrats to Cork. Their performance reminded me of that of ours in 2003 when we would bust a gut to win every ball and they beat us at our own game all over the field.

A lot of 'Neutrals' would be happy to call this the end of the Tyrone era and sure let them believe that.
I for one can see too many retiring but would like to see the younger lads pushing on next year and challenging maybe the older lads for their places. Hopefully Mickey wont be like other counties and be scared of changing the guard as we've loads of lads that can come in and do a good job.

Hope to watch it again tonight on Sky+ to see this Brolly v Spillane rant but sure what would you expect from the man & I'd say he was just ripping that it was Cork that put Tyrone on their asses and not his beloved Kingdom.

Jack O'Connor & Darragh O'Se will have to wait to get their victories over Tyrone or maybe it will never happen.

[lynchbhoy]

Maybe it's terminology. You are attempting (Zulu) to but a very definitive, scientific, meaning to peaking. Maybe peaking is the wrong word, maybe it's momentum, improvement etc. All I know is that Kerry playing Limerick in the first round of the championship is not the same level of fitness, aggression, or sharpness (in thought or deed) as will be the case if they played Dublin in August, for example.

Peaking implies that you cannot go any further, as you say, so peaking is a slight misnomer.

As I said earlier this term of peaking is bullshit IMO. It's coined by sports sciencists to make themselves sound like geniuses. The correct term as someone said earlier is momentum. Defined as in my view as winning matches concurrently and also staying in a competition long enough so eventually you reach the top 10% percentile of performance.

This idea that Kerry were holding back against Longford and Sligo is crap. They weren't playing well but due to the inability of the above to seal the deal- kerry earned a stay of execution where they were able to rectify matters to produce something like their best against Dublin.

What I object to is sports science gurus claiming that this is all part of a master plan. Which is complete tosh. Sligo should have put Kerry out- that is only reason Kerry remain in the championship- not because they were waiting around to peak against Dublin which is complete garbage.

maybe we cant define it or that its not defined in what has been said already
but earlier in the championship Kerry were def not fit
they also did not have what constitutes their best XV out in the qualifier matches (imo at least - well if you compare the line ups to what they are putting out now)

Kerry dont normally fire on all cylinders until Aug/sept and thats usually enough to get them through to there or thereabouts
thats what I'd label as peaking !

[pintsofguinness]

See ger houlihan putting the boot in via the belfast tele. Saying Tyrone merely a good team as only great ones retain sam.

Hoully wasn't even part of a good team using his own logic.

Well yeah, with the possible exception of a couple of years it would be a good one that could argue Houlie was part of a good armagh team.

[SidelineKick]

Jack O'Connor & Darragh O'Se will have to wait to get their victories over Tyrone or maybe it will never happen.

Yup, thats what its all about 

As I said before, if Kerry win the AI this year, you try and find me a disappointed Kerry face at not getting to play Tyrone. You'd be looking for a while.

[longrunsthefox]

Jack O'Connor & Darragh O'Se will have to wait to get their victories over Tyrone or maybe it will never happen.

Yup, thats what its all about 

As I said before, if Kerry win the AI this year, you try and find me a disappointed Kerry face at not getting to play Tyrone. You'd be looking for a while.

That is why they might win it... not getting to play Tyrone 

[Zulu]

Kerry might not reach the standard of the Dublin game again this year but it isn't because of their training program that they 'peaked' that day. All I'm saying is as a coach you can't get 30 individuals to 'peak' on a given day, so it isn't a goal you should set yourself.

have to say Zulu that looking at kerry fitness in their first couple of championship matches and comparing that with their fitness against Dublin - to me that defines it all about 'peaking'.

as a coach I wouldnt try to be getting 30 individuals to peak on a given day, I'd try to get the TEAM to peak !

Again LB I would say that improving fitness is a constant process rather than a peak. In fact most teams lose certain aspects of fitness as the year goes on rather than improve it. Aerobic fitness, for example, tends to decrease a bit in the latter part of the season so while you obviously want to be able to play well at the business end of the season you aren't necessarily at a 'peak'.

As I said earlier this term of peaking is bullshit IMO. It's coined by sports sciencists to make themselves sound like geniuses.

I wouldn't entirely agree, I would say the term has been misused by people who don't know what they are talking about.

[Onion Bag]

I think there was a cockiness in the air yesterday surrounding Tyrone in my eyes, they had their eyes on the 2 in a row and going down as a 'great team' and forgot about a semi final against Cork, i know a lot of Tyrone people who had Rooms booked for the All ireland w'end, 
i even know one person who in Jan of this year would not book a holiday in sept because of the All ireland even though it was £250 cheaper,

Tyrone yesterday reminded me of Armagh in 06, just not at the races, lets be honest guys, they werent really tested this year bar a 1st half performance by Kildare, it does not say much for the rest of Ulster at them min,

[AZOffaly]

Ara lads, don't get hung up on people using the wrong terminology. It's the spirit of what they mean that's important. I think the the better teams are playing better and more phyiscally and mentally tuned in later in the year. If that's a stroke of managerial genius, or luck combined with momentum of winning games while playing poorly (relatively), it still amounts to the same thing.

Sometimes a cliche is a cliche because it's true. Good teams are at their most formidable in August/September.

[JMohan]

I did define it.

With respect JM you didn't.

Your job as a coach is to make sure they can perform in the top 10% - 15% of their current potential.

How do you know what their potential is and how as a coach do you get 30 players of varying potentials to peak together?

To increase the '10' you have to overload which means they would be in periods where they are not near their 'peak' but they are improving it.

That is peaking to me.

That's training, not peaking.

Ok, you're either taking the piss now or just stupid – honestly.

You're not reading what I'm saying at all – or you're just a WUM.

Of course training is training – but after a training phase there is a period where the athlete is at a level where they can perform near their current potential.

Peaking is being near your current potential.
Current Potential is the level you're at currently – your Absolute Human Potential is among other things heavily determined by genetic aspects.


Peaking is having the person in a state of readiness that they can express as close as possible to their Current Potential.