Author Topic: The real search in Down-For the new Maurice Hayes, architect of the 60s success  (Read 7919 times)

Tomorrow is another day

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Management Selection

This is a crucial juncture in our County's recent history and the wrong selection now could set back our senior team for many years.

The most successful counties over the last 15 years since our last triumph have all evolved towards a system whereby the coach is most seperate and distinct from the manager. The coach takes training, gets players fit and works on skills while the manager deals with strategy and crucially communication. The two front runners Pete and wee James have styles that unfortunately do not fall into one category or the other and are blends of both positions. I would even go further and say that Pete is not an intercounty manager per se but rather an excellent coach. However he is not a manager as he is a very poor person to person and group communicator. He is functional and factual like a GPS system!

Take a look at Dublin and Pat Gilroy. He seems to have gone further than anyone else in this intercounty “new manager” model. Upto his appointment, Tyrone (Harte and Tally) Armagh (Kernan and Grimley) Kerry (O'Connor and Finnegan) seemed to be the front runners in creating a new job description for an Inter county manager. They abdicated responsibility for fitness and basic coaching and involved most of their time in strategy, managing resource, PR, pyschology etc. Even the great Micko has been doing likewise over the last 5 or so years with Arthur French. But Gilroy's appointment went a step further. Pat Gilroy is a very successful Chief Executive of the Irish division of a French Multinational. He should not have the spare time to manage any county team let alone Dublin. But he brings a professionalism and strategy to the role. His sole task is to allocate resource and identify need and determine strategy. He has replicated his model for business success to the dressing room. He is most definitely not working out drills!!

We need to read the writing on the wall. We need to embrace the professional business like approaches to management and organisational development and motivation. Simply appointing an ex manager or ex player is not enough. As Einstein is famously quoted as saying “If you always do what you have always done then you will always get what you have always got!”

I would like to see a radical rethink as to how our county senior team is managed based on the best practices of Organisational Development Research.

I would like to see a significant overhaul of our development structures so that we are putting in the foundations for continued future success from 10 year olds up within Down.

Though most crucially I would like to see an overhaul of the administration of the Down County association. There are simply too many people who are in executive positions with insufficient intellectual ability and even worse many are going through the motions and not serving the best interests of their membership in the county. The great breakthrough was started in the late 50’s by the visionary involvement of Maurice Hayes as county secretary. We need another such talent. The present incumbent is simply not upto the task and should resign in the best interests of the county.

Jack Devanney is one of the few if only people on the County Executive at present with true ability. The Longford native is a great administrator and needs to have more likeminded capable and honest people with him to make a difference for this great county of ours.

This county needs courage. This county needs new blood at administrative level and this great county needs to get the job description right first before it looks for the best manager. Finally the successful person then needs to have the confidence in his county board and the freedom to put whatever structures he needs in place to maximise the return form the players that we have.

Carbery

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Management Selection

This is a crucial juncture in our County's recent history and the wrong selection now could set back our senior team for many years.

The most successful counties over the last 15 years since our last triumph have all evolved towards a system whereby the coach is most seperate and distinct from the manager. The coach takes training, gets players fit and works on skills while the manager deals with strategy and crucially communication. The two front runners Pete and wee James have styles that unfortunately do not fall into one category or the other and are blends of both positions. I would even go further and say that Pete is not an intercounty manager per se but rather an excellent coach. However he is not a manager as he is a very poor person to person and group communicator. He is functional and factual like a GPS system!

Take a look at Dublin and Pat Gilroy. He seems to have gone further than anyone else in this intercounty “new manager” model. Upto his appointment, Tyrone (Harte and Tally) Armagh (Kernan and Grimley) Kerry (O'Connor and Finnegan) seemed to be the front runners in creating a new job description for an Inter county manager. They abdicated responsibility for fitness and basic coaching and involved most of their time in strategy, managing resource, PR, pyschology etc. Even the great Micko has been doing likewise over the last 5 or so years with Arthur French. But Gilroy's appointment went a step further. Pat Gilroy is a very successful Chief Executive of the Irish division of a French Multinational. He should not have the spare time to manage any county team let alone Dublin. But he brings a professionalism and strategy to the role. His sole task is to allocate resource and identify need and determine strategy. He has replicated his model for business success to the dressing room. He is most definitely not working out drills!!

We need to read the writing on the wall. We need to embrace the professional business like approaches to management and organisational development and motivation. Simply appointing an ex manager or ex player is not enough. As Einstein is famously quoted as saying “If you always do what you have always done then you will always get what you have always got!”

I would like to see a radical rethink as to how our county senior team is managed based on the best practices of Organisational Development Research.

I would like to see a significant overhaul of our development structures so that we are putting in the foundations for continued future success from 10 year olds up within Down.

Though most crucially I would like to see an overhaul of the administration of the Down County association. There are simply too many people who are in executive positions with insufficient intellectual ability and even worse many are going through the motions and not serving the best interests of their membership in the county. The great breakthrough was started in the late 50’s by the visionary involvement of Maurice Hayes as county secretary. We need another such talent. The present incumbent is simply not upto the task and should resign in the best interests of the county.

Jack Devanney is one of the few if only people on the County Executive at present with true ability. The Longford native is a great administrator and needs to have more likeminded capable and honest people with him to make a difference for this great county of ours.


This county needs courage. This county needs new blood at administrative level and this great county needs to get the job description right first before it looks for the best manager. Finally the successful person then needs to have the confidence in his county board and the freedom to put whatever structures he needs in place to maximise the return form the players that we have.


Devanney would not be on the same level as an administrator as Sean Og McAteer.
In fact Sean Og is one of the most innovative and deep thinking official in the GAA and Down as a county are very lucky to have him at the helm.

mournerambler

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Tomorrow is another day
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    Re: The new Down Manager
« Reply #88 on: July 31, 2009, 03:42:13 PM »   

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Management Selection

This is a crucial juncture in our County's recent history and the wrong selection now could set back our senior team for many years.

The most successful counties over the last 15 years since our last triumph have all evolved towards a system whereby the coach is most seperate and distinct from the manager. The coach takes training, gets players fit and works on skills while the manager deals with strategy and crucially communication. The two front runners Pete and wee James have styles that unfortunately do not fall into one category or the other and are blends of both positions. I would even go further and say that Pete is not an intercounty manager per se but rather an excellent coach. However he is not a manager as he is a very poor person to person and group communicator. He is functional and factual like a GPS system!

Take a look at Dublin and Pat Gilroy. He seems to have gone further than anyone else in this intercounty “new manager” model. Upto his appointment, Tyrone (Harte and Tally) Armagh (Kernan and Grimley) Kerry (O'Connor and Finnegan) seemed to be the front runners in creating a new job description for an Inter county manager. They abdicated responsibility for fitness and basic coaching and involved most of their time in strategy, managing resource, PR, pyschology etc. Even the great Micko has been doing likewise over the last 5 or so years with Arthur French. But Gilroy's appointment went a step further. Pat Gilroy is a very successful Chief Executive of the Irish division of a French Multinational. He should not have the spare time to manage any county team let alone Dublin. But he brings a professionalism and strategy to the role. His sole task is to allocate resource and identify need and determine strategy. He has replicated his model for business success to the dressing room. He is most definitely not working out drills!!

We need to read the writing on the wall. We need to embrace the professional business like approaches to management and organisational development and motivation. Simply appointing an ex manager or ex player is not enough. As Einstein is famously quoted as saying “If you always do what you have always done then you will always get what you have always got!”

I would like to see a radical rethink as to how our county senior team is managed based on the best practices of Organisational Development Research.

I would like to see a significant overhaul of our development structures so that we are putting in the foundations for continued future success from 10 year olds up within Down.

Though most crucially I would like to see an overhaul of the administration of the Down County association. There are simply too many people who are in executive positions with insufficient intellectual ability and even worse many are going through the motions and not serving the best interests of their membership in the county. The great breakthrough was started in the late 50’s by the visionary involvement of Maurice Hayes as county secretary. We need another such talent. The present incumbent is simply not upto the task and should resign in the best interests of the county.

Jack Devanney is one of the few if only people on the County Executive at present with true ability. The Longford native is a great administrator and needs to have more likeminded capable and honest people with him to make a difference for this great county of ours.

This county needs courage. This county needs new blood at administrative level and this great county needs to get the job description right first before it looks for the best manager. Finally the successful person then needs to have the confidence in his county board and the freedom to put whatever structures he needs in place to maximise the return form the players that we have.
 


How many times are you going to post this, there already is a thread to discuss the new Down manager without you needing to start another one, reading the same post at least 3 times is becoming very tedious to say the least.

Edited to highlight my post.

Tomorrow is another day

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Please - I am not going to slander anyone. But Sean Og is at best limited to average.

We need intelligence, courage and foresight.

We need more and deserve better

mournerambler

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Please - I am not going to slander anyone. But Sean Og is at best limited to average.

We need intelligence, courage and foresight.

We need more and deserve better

Hopefully you won't be putting your name forward ;D

Tomorrow is another day

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Well I will not be putting my name forward for various reasons.

However, Mourne rambler I think that you should.

Really.

mournerambler

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My hat's in the ring ;)

stronghold

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I think the attack on Sean Og Mc Ateer is totally unfounded.  Sean Og has given over 30 years service to Down at every level and is only in the job a matter of months.  Jack devaney who I beleive is from Longford applied for the job the same as Sean Og and an independent Croke Pk panel picked Sean Og, so sour grapes comes to mind. Sure Devaney is the main man at Queens which is in terminal decline.
Support for Sean Og is the only way, if you want a strong Down Committe and Team then stop all this back stabbing.

norabeag

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Thats bollix. Sean Og has been in paid position now for > 4 years and has delivered nothing.

Leo

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An interesting discussion is being sidetracked by the unfaair attacks on Sean Og.
Anyway, this rather misses the point of the topic which is the search from within the county for a new person, rather than a rehashing of someone already involved within the county set up (and John Devanney is already involved so why prefer him over Sean Og?)
The paid secretary's position is always going to go to a safe pair of hands (in Crke Park's assessment) and the safe pair of hands can deliver on the mundane administrative tasks that need done.
What we need is innovation - create a new position - get a panel of  GAA-supporting business and professional people to sort out the job description and see who fits the bill.
Keep the county officers away from all assessment procedures as they bring the same old tired ideas and formulas to something that needs to be radical.
We used tobe good at this in Down - but like our football that was many years ago!
Fierce tame altogether

Tomorrow is another day

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Leo - I have to agree with you.

Talking to a very senior Tyrone man yesterday in Croke Park he told me that it was Maurice Hayes who was the brains, the vision and the drive behind our breakthrough. He set the platform for good players to be great and average players to be good.

New thinking is needed.

wobbller

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Leo - I have to agree with you.

Talking to a very senior Tyrone man yesterday in Croke Park he told me that it was Maurice Hayes who was the brains, the vision and the drive behind our breakthrough. He set the platform for good players to be great and average players to be good.

New thinking is needed.
  Was your Senior Tyrone man as old as Maurice and did he just walk up to you two or three days after you started this thread and say this to you?

Tomorrow is another day

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They guy is in his late 60's and we were having the discussion about what is needed to turn around Down's fortunes during the break between the two games in our box.

He then made the point to me about Maurice Hayes and I felt vindicated lol

mournerambler

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They guy is in his late 60's and we were having the discussion about what is needed to turn around Down's fortunes during the break between the two games in our box.

He then made the point to me about Maurice Hayes and I felt vindicated lol


7   GAA Discussion / GAA Discussion / Re: the happiest day following your county?  on: July 31, 2009, 03:52:16 PM 
Very simply the immense feeling of pride and heritage of standing on the Hill in a sea of red and black in September 1991

You've come a long way TIAD :D




thegael

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listen this goobly gook of a a plan by Maurice Hayes has grown bigger as the years pass.

Also trying to pitch Jack Devanney as some sort of a intellectual tycoon and trying to springboard him to prominence in gaa circles may be the main motivation of this thread.

An educated guy alright a bright young man as an administror but not a leader.But really this thread is a kind of pr caqmpaign  for jack so just forget about doing that guys!





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