Thoughts on Fitness and Coaching for Gaelic Games

[INDIANA]

I would agree Dinny. How can you ever improve if you don't know where you're at. A lot of players will laugh at you when you tell them they aren't fit enough- if you can prove it to them- it usually shuts them up.

[Zulu]

Any fitness testing regime needs to be standardised and implemented with the full co-operation of the players.

Yes I agree but you have to be realistic also and if, like me, you have coached teams that are dual clubs and would have a number of lads playing soccer also I found the process of testing pointless. In fact for testing to be valid it should be done at the same time, in the same place under the same conditions and every players should have eaten the same food and taken the previous day or two off from physical activity. In an amateur setting I don't think you can guarantee that and therefore your results will be questionable.

Perhaps I have more resources at my disposal as I have 3 other coaches under my but I find fitness testing very important, 6 weeks before pre-season begins the players are given a programme and are tested at the start, we test vertical jump, body fat percentage, flexibility, aeroibic (150m shuttle) and sprint time over 40m.

I find it hard to see how you can improve all those areas of fitness in 6 weeks and if for example 4 players vertical jump hadn't improved, 8 players %BF hadn't changed much, 10 players flexibility hadn't changed significantly how would you develop all those different areas while still moving onto the next phase of your training. Indeed if a player has 16% BF will he be a better player if he goes down to 14%BF or how much improvement in the sit and reach test is enough for you not to alter to training plans?

Don't get me wrong, at a high level of sport I can see the benefits or for an individual sport too but for a club level football team, I have serious doubts as to whether the time and effort of testing is worth it.

[Dinny Breen]

The Verical Jump is for muscle strength, they have a specific weights programme which is designed to improve this and yes 6 weeks is plenty time to show improvement what I should mention is that during preseason they get a modified gym programme as well to compliment pre-season, we can isolate those guys you we haven't shown improvements in certain areas and work on them specifically. If a player loses 2% body fat well yes he can be a better player because he has reduced his odds on getting fatigued and with less fat to carry he can move more freely. If they players still aren't at a required flexibilty level we can provide greater focus on dynamic stretching if needs be, there is a lot of onus on the individual and if his stats haven't improved well then I would have no problem questioning his attitude and committment. All results are available to the team.

[BallyhaiseMan]

Perhaps I have more resources at my disposal as I have 3 other coaches under my but I find fitness testing very important, 6 weeks before pre-season begins the players are given a programme and are tested at the start, we test vertical jump, body fat percentage, flexibility, aeroibic (150m shuttle) and sprint time over 40m. This gives us a baseline to work off they are then tested at the start of pre-season where the expectation is results will have improved and depending on results we can adjust our own pre-season plans.

Players need to know the hard work is paying off and fitness testing results show that.

If you don't test, how do you know they're getting fitter?

Michael Cheika is that you? i didnt know you liked GAA aswell 

[INDIANA]

I agree with that I think vertical jumps among other things are a waste of time at club level. There are very few if any club teams that will have the expertise or facilities available to them to improve the likes of those. However a spider or bleep test can be used at club level simply to give an overall assessment of their fitness level and give the players and coaches something to work from. I wouldn't get hung up on fitness tests but its no harm a couple of times during the season.

[Dinny Breen]

Michael Cheika is that you? i didnt know you liked GAA aswell 

God no, Cheika is Dubs fan.

[BallyhaiseMan]

I agree with that I think vertical jumps among other things are a waste of time at club level. There are very few if any club teams that will have the expertise or facilities available to them to improve the likes of those. However a spider or bleep test can be used at club level simply to give an overall assessment of their fitness level and give the players and coaches something to work from. I wouldn't get hung up on fitness tests but its no harm a couple of times during the season.

Disagree with you INDIANA about vertical jumps being a waste of time at club level.
Vertical Jumps can be increased with just one squatting sesion one day a week, to parallel or below ATG level from my experience.
I know as my squat has increased, my vertical jump has exploded.
it does be hard to get some club lads to do gym work though as ive found many to be very dismissive of it.

[INDIANA]

Precisely why I consider them a waste of time . Club players generally don't have the time to perform heavy power lifting sessions. Also a squat exercise from a technique point of view is not easy to do properly. The amount of people and players I see performing incorrect squats in the gym is unbelievable. This invariably leads to hamstring injuries and tears.
Any club teams I've been involved with- I've largely taken out heavy free squats because I find after a couple of weeks the technique gets flawed and they gte up getting injury problems.
Its different a t county level - lads often have coaches there as the weights are being performed and because they are doing them from a younger age - their technique is usually perfect before they get near the heavy stuff.

[Zulu]

However a spider or bleep test can be used at club level simply to give an overall assessment of their fitness level and give the players and coaches something to work from.

I agree, there is nothing wrong with doing this test as it something that as a coach you can actually influence but power, flexibility, BF and agility are things that will need extra or specific work and therefore are of limited use to most coaches. For example if you best forward hasn't lost any BF are you going to drop him, or if a guy's flexibility has improved but he is playing rubbish are you going to start him? IMO on field performance can is the only real test that matters and if your team are doing well there then you should be happy.

If a player loses 2% body fat well yes he can be a better player because he has reduced his odds on getting fatigued and with less fat to carry he can move more freely.

An extremely dubious statement and there is no way a coach should think like that, as I said above if your winger didn't drop any BF but was getting 2 tries a game for you would you be concerned?

[lynchbhoy]

IMO fitness, gym fitness, SAQ etc are all good to do and to improve upon, but they dont always translate to better football or better footballers.
The exercises would be of benefit to players who are never fit
but while the above might contribute to 30-45% of a players repetoire , for some if not a majority of players, their instinct, reading of the game, timing , mental strength/aggression are the key factors and fitness is almost a by product.

The fitness/strength training is prob more aligned with the likes of rugby where a different type of physical attribute is required.
In Gaelic football at least (wont talk about hurling as that is different again) , you try to avoid getting hit or hitting even (as that isnt supposed to be the 'tackle') wheras rugby there HAS to be and will be hitting given the lesser dynamic in terms of ball/player movement around the pitch (and kicking form full back to full back in rugby doesnt really count as the same!).

Every little helps, but fitness/strength coaching might help improve mediocre lads but the top players are usually good irrespective!(naturals?)

IMO of course!

[INDIANA]

I agree lynchy- no amount of training will make someone go the extra yard for a 50/50 ball. Thats purely mental and usually God given.

There has been a serious revision however among Gaa teams about the types of strength and conditioning programmes they should be undertaking. A lot of the power lifting exercises associated with rugby which were all the craze recently have largely been abandoned.
There is no point in negating speed for strength in modern day Gaelic Football. Need to go hand in hand. In a lot of cases they don't however.

[Dinny Breen]

An extremely dubious statement and there is no way a coach should think like that, as I said above if your winger didn't drop any BF but was getting 2 tries a game for you would you be concerned?

You asked if a player lost 2% body fat would he be a better player and yes he would be he in context. So nothing dubious about considering the context I was talking was  6 week before preseason and preseason itself where game time would be minimal, of course as the season progresses yes performance is the key counter but if you were conceding scores in the last 20 mins well then you'd have ask are your players fit enough. To be honest if a player hasn't improved his baseline fitness what kind of coach would you be not to question why?

[Dinny Breen]

IMO fitness, gym fitness, SAQ etc are all good to do and to improve upon, but they dont always translate to better football or better footballers.
The exercises would be of benefit to players who are never fit
but while the above might contribute to 30-45% of a players repetoire , for some if not a majority of players, their instinct, reading of the game, timing , mental strength/aggression are the key factors and fitness is almost a by product.

The fitness/strength training is prob more aligned with the likes of rugby where a different type of physical attribute is required.
In Gaelic football at least (wont talk about hurling as that is different again) , you try to avoid getting hit or hitting even (as that isnt supposed to be the 'tackle') wheras rugby there HAS to be and will be hitting given the lesser dynamic in terms of ball/player movement around the pitch (and kicking form full back to full back in rugby doesnt really count as the same!).

Every little helps, but fitness/strength coaching might help improve mediocre lads but the top players are usually good irrespective!(naturals?)

IMO of course!

Agree with all that and I forget that I'm looking it at all from a rugby perspective but when I do start GAA coaching (those u14s won't know what hit them) my teams will be fit 

I'm attending a rugby coaching conference at the weekend in Enfield but any of you angry coaches attending this, looks savage

http://www.sporttracker.ie/cms/coaching_seminar/programme1.pdf

[Zulu]

I'm heading to that one Dinny so I hope it is worthwhile, I'll let ye know anything of interest anyway.

[INDIANA]

An extremely dubious statement and there is no way a coach should think like that, as I said above if your winger didn't drop any BF but was getting 2 tries a game for you would you be concerned?

You asked if a player lost 2% body fat would he be a better player and yes he would be he in context. So nothing dubious about considering the context I was talking was  6 week before preseason and preseason itself where game time would be minimal, of course as the season progresses yes performance is the key counter but if you were conceding scores in the last 20 mins well then you'd have ask are your players fit enough. To be honest if a player hasn't improved his baseline fitness what kind of coach would you be not to question why?

I appreciate that but I've had players who just struggle fitness wise but can kick the ball over the bar with both feet. So I put guys around them who can run and do the things they can't. The point being made that you can't just drop somebody due to body fat if they have particular skills that are vital for the well being of the team. At club level you mighn't have the luxury. At county level however it is unlikely you would have the latitude to struggle fitness wise but at club level its different.