More Double Standards from Irish Republicans

[magpie seanie]

Whilst you are right that Government and Religion should be kept separate and this oath needs to be looked, I can't see how you can equate this with Sinn Fein or Republicanism.

I never mentioned SF. However, Irish Republicans in NI frequently object to the UK having an established religion (C of E), plus previous requirements (now legally avoidable) to swear various Oaths etc to the Monarch, for being discriminatory against them.

Yet they would have NI subsumed by a State which quite clearly has similar discriminatory practices against others, enshrined in its very Constitution.

Are these not double standards?

EG - I think you're reaching slightly. I would possibly accept that there is a double standard if you are being completely letter of the law about it. I would say the ROI's "discriminatory practices" in this area are of a much lesser extent that in NI. God only vs. God and Monarch. The Monarch thing is the main problem for Republicans, God is a seperate issue.

OK, let's simplify matters. Irish Republicans criticise the UK on account of the fact that a non-Protestant cannot be Head of State. Yet a non-Christian cannot be Head of State of the Irish Republic.

Does this mean that Irish Republicans only care about reilgious discrimination when it is RC's who are effected, and don't care about people of other faiths, or none?

Most Irish Republicans (and I use this term loosely as I think it should be) would not be in favour of any type of religious discrimination. I don't believe (and I am sure you will correct me if I'm wrong) that other faiths are discriminated against in the ROI. Those of no faith undoubtedly are and things should be changed to reflect this.

The simple answer is at the time these laws/oaths were written no-one ever thought of non-believers. As I said before you could portray it as a double standard - yes, but I think its a bit of a stretch.

[Evil Genius]

Oh and btw, if you're not sure what a "Unionist" is, there are around a million Unionists to the North and East of Sligo; I daresay if there ever should be a United Ireland, you'll have to get plenty used to us then, so why not make an early start?

Given the length of time it took for Unionism to get used to all the Irish Nationalists / Republicans / Whateveryourehavingyourself in their midst, if we start now we might be ready by, ooh, 2090

Fair point.

Mind you, it's always a mistake to arrive at a party long before its even begun, so I'd leave off starting to get ready for another few decades, if I were you...

[Rossfan]

Since when was there a State called "The Irish Republic"

[tyssam5]

EG what is your problem with people who want a United Ireland? ffs.

Er, you've answered* your own question!  

* - They are "people who want a United Ireland", in case you still don't get it...

You clearly have...       ... [an] agenda against Republicans.

Must be something to do with being a Unionist.

Oh and btw, if you're not sure what a "Unionist" is, there are around a million Unionists to the North and East of Sligo; I daresay if there ever should be a United Ireland, you'll have to get plenty used to us then, so why not make an early start?

Wow. I need to get over to Leitrim more often, get a look at a few of these Unionists

[Donagh]

I find it astonishing that Irish Republicans can be so concerned about Civil and Religious Freedoms etc in the UK (and NI especially), whilst remaining completely silent about the clearly discriminatory practices enshrined in the very Constitution of the state which they would have subsume Northern Ireland.

They only seem silent because you have not looked. Many Irish republicans do not recognise the southern state as coming anywhere near a 'Republic' and have been very vocal in their criticism of deValeras Constitution, including myself on this board.

Oh and btw, if you're not sure what a "Unionist" is, there are around a million Unionists to the North and East of Sligo; I daresay if there ever should be a United Ireland, you'll have to get plenty used to us then, so why not make an early start?

Some things never change no matter how many holidays I take - death, taxes and Eg spinning lies on GaaBoard. There are no million unionists in Ireland or anywhere else, never have been and never will - a point you conceded to me some time ago.

And what's all this "get plenty used to us then" - sure you don't even have a vote here never mind live in Ireland. Whatever future has in store for Ireland, north or south, will have absolutely nothing to do with you have you'll have absolutely no say in it. Ireland's future will be decided by those that live here, not interfering Brits from outside. 

[Evil Genius]

EG what is your problem with people who want a United Ireland? ffs.

Er, you've answered* your own question!  

* - They are "people who want a United Ireland", in case you still don't get it...

You clearly have...       ... [an] agenda against Republicans.

Must be something to do with being a Unionist.

Oh and btw, if you're not sure what a "Unionist" is, there are around a million Unionists to the North and East of Sligo; I daresay if there ever should be a United Ireland, you'll have to get plenty used to us then, so why not make an early start?

Wow. I need to get over to Leitrim more often, get a look at a few of these Unionists

Hmm, I'm not quite sure why I inserted the "and" between North East, but on reflection, maybe I'll leave it 
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/northern_ireland/foyle_and_west/8145650.stm

[Evil Genius]

Some things never change no matter how many holidays I take - death, taxes and Eg spinning lies on GaaBoard. There are no million unionists in Ireland or anywhere else, never have been and never will - a point you conceded to me some time ago.

OK, how about you tell me how many Unionists you think there are in Ireland?
I'm saying there are "around a million"; if you think that is incorrect, then you presumably have some idea what the correct figure is.
(And btw, do you care to quote exactly where/when I "conceded" the point earlier? For if I did do so, I'm sure it was only in order to draw from you your estimate of the true figure)

And what's all this "get plenty used to us then" - sure you don't even have a vote here never mind live in Ireland. Whatever future has in store for Ireland, north or south, will have absolutely nothing to do with you have you'll have absolutely no say in it. Ireland's future will be decided by those that live here, not interfering Brits from outside.  

In referring to "us", I meant Irish Unionists. Where I presently  live or vote* etc does not alter my status.
As for "whatever future has in store for Ireland", how do you know where I'll be living next?
Mind you, when it comes to "interfering Brits from outside" not determining Ireland's future, I'll certainly give you that - it'll be around a million Brits, "interfering" or otherwise, from inside Ireland who will decide!  

P.S. When other posters who live outside Ireland, such as (Aussie) Aerlik or (Yankee) Stew etc comment on matters Irish in personal terms, do you ever take them up on it? No?


* - As a British citizen, I am happy to have exercised my vote in elections to the British Parliament ever since I turned 18. Assuming you are an Irish citizen, may I ask how many elections to the Irish Parliament you have voted in?  

[Keyser soze]

I'm sure British [as in people who live in Great Britain] republicans object to taking any oath to a monarchy. Equally i'm sure any British Catholic would not be overly happy with the present constitutional arrangements in Britain which bars them from taking certain posts because of their religion.

As you rightly point out the Irish constitution, which as you say, you don't live under, has a discriminatory clause which needs to be updated to reflect the make up of it's people which is increasingly secular.

Perhaps you might be better to try to change the constitution you live under first and when you are successful you can take the campaign international. With such a track record you are sure to prevail. I'm tempted to quote about motes and beams etc but since i'm sure you could hardly see the keyboard when you started the thread i'll not bother.

By the way nationalists and republicans are not seeking a United Ireland nor do we want 'NI joined with/taken over by the Republic' [your quote].

We are seeking a RE-UNITED Ireland!! 

[Donagh]

Some things never change no matter how many holidays I take - death, taxes and Eg spinning lies on GaaBoard. There are no million unionists in Ireland or anywhere else, never have been and never will - a point you conceded to me some time ago.

OK, how about you tell me how many Unionists you think there are in Ireland?
I'm saying there are "around a million"; if you think that is incorrect, then you presumably have some idea what the correct figure is.
(And btw, do you care to quote exactly where/when I "conceded" the point earlier? For if I did do so, I'm sure it was only in order to draw from you your estimate of the true figure)

I'd go for the amount that vote for unionist parties but as it's you that are putting the claim forward the onus in on you to produce the supporting evidence.

And what's all this "get plenty used to us then" - sure you don't even have a vote here never mind live in Ireland. Whatever future has in store for Ireland, north or south, will have absolutely nothing to do with you have you'll have absolutely no say in it. Ireland's future will be decided by those that live here, not interfering Brits from outside.  

In referring to "us", I meant Irish Unionists. Where I presently  live or vote* etc does not alter my status.
As for "whatever future has in store for Ireland", how do you know where I'll be living next?
Mind you, when it comes to "interfering Brits from outside" not determining Ireland's future, I'll certainly give you that - it'll be around a million Brits, "interfering" or otherwise, from inside Ireland who will decide!  

P.S. When other posters who live outside Ireland, such as (Aussie) Aerlik or (Yankee) Stew etc comment on matters Irish in personal terms, do you ever take them up on it? No?


* - As a British citizen, I am happy to have exercised my vote in elections to the British Parliament ever since I turned 18. Assuming you are an Irish citizen, may I ask how many elections to the Irish Parliament you have voted in?  

You can comment all you like, I'm just saying neither you or they will have any say in the future of this country (Ireland). That privilege is left to those of us who choose to stay when the going was tough.

* - reread the first part of my original reply again maybe a litter slower and you might find the answer - you know the bit that actually addresses and completely refutes your point for starting this thread in the first place and the bit you conveniently choose to ignore.

[mylestheslasher]

As a republican I would like to see all mention of religion removed from our constitution. Of course, the constitution was moulded by Dev and his religious opinions are clearly present. I believe the thinking behind this idiotic bill is that it would be too expensive to hold a referendum to remove reference to the points above. The alternative is to ignore it or to legislate in such a way to make blasphemy pretty much impossible.
As for the UK and monarchy. The danish monarchy did not slaughter Irish people nor claim to be head of the state in Ireland nor force people to take oaths against their will to enter certain jobs etc etc. I find the whole notion of monarchy distasteful but if the danes want one I have no issue with them sending that monarch here on a visit. The UK monarch is of course a different matter given the history between our nations. Maybe in the time a visit would be acceptable. I am thinking of when the 6 northern counties are reunited it might be a nice gesture to the unionists in the north to have a fancy reception of the Queen of Britain.

[magickingdom]

[
OK, let's simplify matters. Irish Republicans criticise the UK on account of the fact that a non-Protestant cannot be Head of State. Yet a non-Christian cannot be Head of State of the Irish Republic.

while i disagree with oaths unless for breakfast this is more lazy sh1te from eg, non christians CAN become head of state of ireland (even if they mutter an oath they dont like) non protestants CANT become head of state of britian (no matter what they mutter).

[Donagh]

[
OK, let's simplify matters. Irish Republicans criticise the UK on account of the fact that a non-Protestant cannot be Head of State. Yet a non-Christian cannot be Head of State of the Irish Republic.

while i disagree with oaths unless for breakfast this is more lazy sh1te from eg, non christians CAN become head of state of ireland (even if they mutter an oath they dont like) non protestants CANT become head of state of britian (no matter what they mutter).

Correction MK, non protestants can become the Head of State but Catholics or those who marry them cannot. So Osama bin Laden potentially could but Prince Michael of Kent could not.

[magickingdom]

my mistake even tho i knew that, that what i get for copying eg's sh1te. i should have said catholics

[Roger]

By the way nationalists and republicans are not seeking a United Ireland nor do we want 'NI joined with/taken over by the Republic' [your quote].

We are seeking a RE-UNITED Ireland!! 

I don't think Irish nationalists or republicans seek re-unification.
Ireland reunited within the UK? Only time Ireland was united. 

[heganboy]

orly?
united kingdom was created in 1800- you believe ireland was not united before that?
Consider posting on the neighbours or home and away thread...