County Champions and Ulster Finallists Ballinderry Thrown out of Championship

[OverThePostsAWide]

The point here is that the club are suspended because they did not identify the player involved. They were asked to provide the CB with the name of the player, which is clearly within the clubs remit to do so. They knew by not providing the information then they had left themselves open to suspension under the rules of the association so there sympathy for them in completely lacking.

Secondly if I was a Ballinderry player I would be disgusted that I was playing with someone who could strike someone from behind with out giving the man a chance to defend himself and then not having the bottle to stand over his actions to save the rest of the club from suspension.

Nag1. I wouldn't like ii if you were juror in any courtcase I might be involved in.

Ditto. In the court of public opinion, any juror would find you guilty of being an Ass

Where did you get the evidence of him being hit from behind?

Are you saying he wasn't? You claim to have a very detailed first-hand view of the whole proceedings or are you now quoting hearsay as fact? ...

Also, the incident was not off the ball. The ball was not in play at the time as the referee was taking names of players at the time after a melee which Kielt had played a very prominent part in. In fact if some of the punches he had thrown had connected properly in the proper place, the story could have been reversed. As a matter of fact, he was the most prominent participant in the melee and neutrals couldn't understand how he wasn't sidelined.

So you're saying you saw Kielt but didn't see his assailant? Hmmm...convenient.

That aside,, you are absolutely right, if the club didn't name the player which probably 90%  of all clubs don't do either, then they must expect a punishment which fits the crime.

Excellent! That quote is a keeper  Now we're getting somewhere. And what punishment do you think that should be then oh wise one?

And is that the punishment you would have called for if the glove had of been on the other fist, so to speak?

[LandErIn]

Players should get punished if then do something wrong and clubs should also be accountable, but what happens if the county officials are found to be wrong, do they every get punished/suspended

[seamusthebard]

Overthepost.
Your response is exactly what one would expect from one in your position. I try to make a reasonable case and you  sarcastically rubbish it. Now as most of the Derry posters realised at your  timing, you would have been very much involved in the decision and with your line of thinking, no wonder the ridiculous decision was arrived at.
I was attempting to make a case in which one person was being demonised and the other angelised. Neither is true.
Your earlier comment of that it was premeditated and from behind. Neither of those two are true.
Maybe as a neutral, you could suggest a reasonable punishment. This not the first time that a player got his jaw broken in derry or anyother county for that matter and the club didn't name the player. What was the punishment handed down.

I would welcome other clubs experience in this matter.

PS. Our club have had two broken jaws in the past two years and they didn't make the referee's report.

In the game involving Kielt incident, we had a player struck of the ball, had to have six stitches inserted in a facial wound which the referee saw but never mentioned in his report!

[Lecale2]

However, this is not the case, and there is no precedent for such punishment in the past that has been handed to them.

Setanta (Donegal) had all there adults teams banned for 12 months by Ulster Council in similar circumstances. They appealled all the way and lost. They couldn't field juvenile teams even though they weren't banned because the adults couldn't coach the teams.

I think the lad involved finally stepped forward and took his punishment.

[amigo]

A similar incident has happened recently in Tyrone. Coalisland Fianna refused to name the person involved in an incident, in a game with Omagh. The club were fined £500 and made play the rest of their league games this year, away from home!!

[full back]

However, this is not the case, and there is no precedent for such punishment in the past that has been handed to them.

Setanta (Donegal) had all there adults teams banned for 12 months by Ulster Council in similar circumstances. They appealled all the way and lost. They couldn't field juvenile teams even though they weren't banned because the adults couldn't coach the teams.

I think the lad involved finally stepped forward and took his punishment.

Proper order

IMHO, this is the crux of the problem

[OverThePostsAWide]

Overthepost.
Your response is exactly what one would expect from one in your position. I try to make a reasonable case and you  sarcastically rubbish it. Now as most of the Derry posters realised at your  timing, you would have been very much involved in the decision and with your line of thinking, no wonder the ridiculous decision was arrived at.

WTF is that about??  You're way off the mark if you think I am Mr McCloy or any one of the Derry CB for that matter!!! 

It's all just smoke and mirrors and mud-slinging from you to avoid the question. Your words:

That aside,, you are absolutely right, if the club didn't name the player which probably 90%  of all clubs don't do either, then they must expect a punishment which fits the crime.

I ask again, what punishment do you think fits this crime then? Either put up or shut up!

[seamusthebard]

I wouldn't know what the normal punishment would be. I think you might be in a better position to judge that. What have other clubs in Derry recieved for similiar incidents and there have been plenty! What was the punishment for them and I'm sure Ballinderry couldn't complain if the got something similiar.

[johnneycool]

However, this is not the case, and there is no precedent for such punishment in the past that has been handed to them.

Setanta (Donegal) had all there adults teams banned for 12 months by Ulster Council in similar circumstances. They appealled all the way and lost. They couldn't field juvenile teams even though they weren't banned because the adults couldn't coach the teams.

I think the lad involved finally stepped forward and took his punishment.

Well he should step forward and give his version of events and take whatever punishment his crime is deemed to merit. As seamus says it maybe isn't all black and white but the club should have requested him to come clean or be given up by the club to ensure that the incident was aired with some sort of balance and consistency but that'd been hard to do after the amount of publicity it got very quickly and Cassidy was wrong to single him out and remove him off the panel IMO. I'm sure there's many a player who's had a box at a fellow county panelist whilst in club action and still get on with it at county level. Sure didn't the Downey's and McGurks of Lavey go at it hammer and tongs with Dungiven men such as the Mckeevers and Magilligan yet still manage to lift an AI together.

[JMohan]

Overthepost.
Your response is exactly what one would expect from one in your position. I try to make a reasonable case and you  sarcastically rubbish it. Now as most of the Derry posters realised at your  timing, you would have been very much involved in the decision and with your line of thinking, no wonder the ridiculous decision was arrived at.
I was attempting to make a case in which one person was being demonised and the other angelised. Neither is true.
Your earlier comment of that it was premeditated and from behind. Neither of those two are true.
Maybe as a neutral, you could suggest a reasonable punishment. This not the first time that a player got his jaw broken in derry or anyother county for that matter and the club didn't name the player. What was the punishment handed down.

I would welcome other clubs experience in this matter.

PS. Our club have had two broken jaws in the past two years and they didn't make the referee's report.

In the game involving Kielt incident, we had a player struck of the ball, had to have six stitches inserted in a facial wound which the referee saw but never mentioned in his report!

Methinks the whole area of referee reporting is going to get a lot more litigious from now on ...

[JMohan]

The point here is that the club are suspended because they did not identify the player involved. They were asked to provide the CB with the name of the player, which is clearly within the clubs remit to do so. They knew by not providing the information then they had left themselves open to suspension under the rules of the association so there sympathy for them in completely lacking.

Secondly if I was a Ballinderry player I would be disgusted that I was playing with someone who could strike someone from behind with out giving the man a chance to defend himself and then not having the bottle to stand over his actions to save the rest of the club from suspension.

Nag1. I wouldn't like ii if you were juror in any courtcase I might be involved in. Where did you get the evidence of him being hit from behind?
Also, the incident was not off the ball. The ball was not in play at the time as the referee was taking names of players at the time after a melee which Kielt had played a very prominent part in. In fact if some of the punches he had thrown had connected properly in the proper place, the story could have been reversed. As a matter of fact, he was the most prominent participant in the melee and neutrals couldn't understand how he wasn't sidelined.
That aside,, you are absolutely right, if the club didn't name the player which probably 90%  of all clubs don't do either, then they must expect a punishment which fits the crime. It is my understanding that Ballinderry would have been prepared to accept a punishment which was in line to that handed down to clubs in similiar circumstances. However, this is not the case, and there is no precedent for such punishment in the past that has been handed to them.

Correct me if I'm wrong - but isn't THAT the reason so many people (especially in Ballinderry, and elsewhere) are annoyed at (and at Cassidy and the CB)?
Essentially that there has not been a chance for any balance to be given to the event or that Conway didn't get a chance to make his case before being dropped?

[OverThePostsAWide]

I wouldn't know what the normal punishment would be. I think you might be in a better position to judge that. What have other clubs in Derry recieved for similiar incidents and there have been plenty! What was the punishment for them and I'm sure Ballinderry couldn't complain if the got something similiar.

You're full of sh*te seamusthebard!! 

So you know what punishment they shouldn't get but go all coy when asked your view on the punishment they should get!

Maybe you could play "Play Your Cards Right" with the CB? You know, you could shout out "Higher...", "Lower..." at each CCC meeting 
...although, I guess you would always shout "Lower..." 

Catch a grip. Tell us, really. You accept that the club are guilty and should be punished. Tell us what punishment YOU think is appropriate. Doesn't need any expertise or vast experience. Nevermind what is "normal" (whatever that means), no whataboutery, you just need the knowledge of your own opinion! Or do you not even know that much 

You're making an Ass of yourself!

[JMohan]

No, you are the idiot.  It's because of people like you that we have the CCCC, the DRA, the CAC and any god's amount of other acronyms for bodies where fancy talking solicitors get people off on technicalities.  Conway hit Kielt and broke his jaw, that is a fact.  Are you disputing that?  Why would Cassidy have to wait for an investigation decides this before taking action?  It's the real world.  And yes, a county team is a dictatorship – what else would it be??? Idiot.

You see this is where you're wrong. It's nothing to do with technicalities - it's called due process you clown. Once you follow due process and presume innocent till proven guilty you stop giving people loopholes to go to court. or to appeal and get sentences quahsed - which is exactly what has happened now - making the CB board look like idiots.
All I'm saying is Conway deserves a fair trial and to have his side heard - not to be judged by Cassidy or Seamus McCloy or anyone else until AFTER that has happened.
(But it's obvious you've no more interest in letting anyone speak - even Conway - since "the dogs in the street", gossip and barstool footballers are your jurors. We've had 30 years of juryless courts - do we need anymore?)

Amazingly again there is far more interest in the process being used to punish someone rather than the fact that a player was seriously injured off the ball by a cowardly action.....I actually applaud Cassidy for not wanting Conway in the team due to his actions and think this is far better for the GAA then the obvious attempts by other managers/counties to get players off suspensions on technicalities when they are clearly guilty

Yes, you are right but should it have just been left to Cassidy and the two players to resolve it within the panel and if the action taken was to remove Conway from the panel, then so be it?

Thank you - my point exactly.

Has Conway been explicitly asked whether or not he did it? Has he either admitted or denied it?

Exactly. Was he ever given the chance to? Even before he was dropped? ... Oh yeh sorry (see above) ... it's a Cassidy/Bellaghy dictatorship.
Call Conway in, let him give his side of the story then make the decision.

[seamusthebard]

Well he should step forward and give his version of events and take whatever punishment his crime is deemed to merit. As seamus says it maybe isn't all black and white but the club should have requested him to come clean or be given up by the club to ensure that the incident was aired with some sort of balance and consistency but that'd been hard to do after the amount of publicity it got very quickly and Cassidy was wrong to single him out and remove him off the panel IMO. I'm sure there's many a player who's had a box at a fellow county panelist whilst in club action and still get on with it at county level. Sure didn't the Downey's and McGurks of Lavey go at it hammer and tongs with Dungiven men such as the Mckeevers and Magilligan yet still manage to lift an AI together.


I think this was the start that left the Ballinderry Club in a very awkward position. If Cassidy could have handled it a little better and the PR machine hadn't gone into overdrive so soon, it would never have reached the ridiculous heights that it has.

[slow corner back]

I thought that the suspension against Conway had been lifted? However this has nothing to do with Conway being on the county panel. Feargal doherty and Mullan were suspended recently but I would expect are both part of the current county panel for training as is Tommy Freeman in Monaghan and many other players round the country. Cassidy chose to remove Conway from the panel because he deemed him to be detrimental to the panel. The fact that the other Ballinderry players did not walk off the panel in support of Conway tends to suggest they believe Conway has done something that merits him being removed from the county panel. Due process is all very well in a court of law but it has nothing to do with picking football teams or panels. CJ McGourty acted the maggot and was thrown off the antrim panel without any ccc or dra or any other inquiry. If the manager does not want a player on a panel he is off it end of story. Due process is neither here nor there.