Galway v Kilkenny

[AZOffaly]

I think most Leinster teams would say that Kilkenny are certainly not afraid to lower the blades, and also to get stuck in. They are so good they can hurl you either way. There's also no doubt in my mind that they are a battle hardened team that are well aware of the 'dark arts' and how to use them when required. Noel Hickey is no fan of conserving Ash trees, and there's a few like him.

But is that a bad thing? I say no. I think it's just another facet of the game that Kilkenny have perfected, and it's only a foul if the ref says it's a foul. I know we've been frustrated playing them, and in other games, because we seem to get pulled a lot for things Kilkenny would never be pulled for, but again that's not Kilkenny's problem.

I would not consider Kilkenny a dirty team, by a long stretch. I think they are cute, I think they walk the line, and I think they are fantastically gifted to boot. That's a fearsome combination, and it is why they are the best. But the rest have to raise their game to compete with them.

The only time I would have a problem is if you play Kilkenny, and give away frees for things that they are being let away with, but that happens rarely enough in my opinion.

[Reillers]

I think most Leinster teams would say that Kilkenny are certainly not afraid to lower the blades, and also to get stuck in. They are so good they can hurl you either way. There's also no doubt in my mind that they are a battle hardened team that are well aware of the 'dark arts' and how to use them when required. Noel Hickey is no fan of conserving Ash trees, and there's a few like him.

But is that a bad thing? I say no. I think it's just another facet of the game that Kilkenny have perfected, and it's only a foul if the ref says it's a foul. I know we've been frustrated playing them, and in other games, because we seem to get pulled a lot for things Kilkenny would never be pulled for, but again that's not Kilkenny's problem.

I would not consider Kilkenny a dirty team, by a long stretch. I think they are cute, I think they walk the line, and I think they are fantastically gifted to boot. That's a fearsome combination, and it is why they are the best. But the rest have to raise their game to compete with them.

The only time I would have a problem is if you play Kilkenny, and give away frees for things that they are being let away with, but that happens rarely enough in my opinion.

That's what they did against Galway though, foul after foul, it's purpose was to stop Galway from getting more goals, and worked. It was persistant deliberate fouling.

On the rest of the post, you're right, it's great if you could do it and you sure as hell wouldn't be complaining if you're team were able to do it and get away with it. It's not always strictly a bad thing, though I do think they hop over the line a bit on occasions. They play the game and rules to the limit and that in a way is one of the things that makes them so good.

[AZOffaly]

I think most Leinster teams would say that Kilkenny are certainly not afraid to lower the blades, and also to get stuck in. They are so good they can hurl you either way. There's also no doubt in my mind that they are a battle hardened team that are well aware of the 'dark arts' and how to use them when required. Noel Hickey is no fan of conserving Ash trees, and there's a few like him.

But is that a bad thing? I say no. I think it's just another facet of the game that Kilkenny have perfected, and it's only a foul if the ref says it's a foul. I know we've been frustrated playing them, and in other games, because we seem to get pulled a lot for things Kilkenny would never be pulled for, but again that's not Kilkenny's problem.

I would not consider Kilkenny a dirty team, by a long stretch. I think they are cute, I think they walk the line, and I think they are fantastically gifted to boot. That's a fearsome combination, and it is why they are the best. But the rest have to raise their game to compete with them.

The only time I would have a problem is if you play Kilkenny, and give away frees for things that they are being let away with, but that happens rarely enough in my opinion.

That's what they did against Galway though, foul after foul, it's purpose was to stop Galway from getting more goals, and worked. It was persistant deliberate fouling.

On the rest of the post, you're right, it's great if you could do it and you sure as hell wouldn't be complaining if you're team were able to do it and get away with it. It's not always strictly a bad thing, though I do think they hop over the line a bit on occasions. They play the game and rules to the limit and that in a way is one of the things that makes them so good.

Aye, but they were blown up on those fouls. So they were conceding scores (1-9 from placed balls I think from JC). That's being streetwise and, yes, a bit cynical but not dirty.

[INDIANA]

I think most Leinster teams would say that Kilkenny are certainly not afraid to lower the blades, and also to get stuck in. They are so good they can hurl you either way. There's also no doubt in my mind that they are a battle hardened team that are well aware of the 'dark arts' and how to use them when required. Noel Hickey is no fan of conserving Ash trees, and there's a few like him.

But is that a bad thing? I say no. I think it's just another facet of the game that Kilkenny have perfected, and it's only a foul if the ref says it's a foul. I know we've been frustrated playing them, and in other games, because we seem to get pulled a lot for things Kilkenny would never be pulled for, but again that's not Kilkenny's problem.

I would not consider Kilkenny a dirty team, by a long stretch. I think they are cute, I think they walk the line, and I think they are fantastically gifted to boot. That's a fearsome combination, and it is why they are the best. But the rest have to raise their game to compete with them.

The only time I would have a problem is if you play Kilkenny, and give away frees for things that they are being let away with, but that happens rarely enough in my opinion.

The problem I have with the current Kilkenny team is that they aren't cutting their cloth to suit the opposition- they are simply lowering the blades from the off and refs are letting them away with it.
In my opinion at present they are just a dirty team.

[Reillers]

I think most Leinster teams would say that Kilkenny are certainly not afraid to lower the blades, and also to get stuck in. They are so good they can hurl you either way. There's also no doubt in my mind that they are a battle hardened team that are well aware of the 'dark arts' and how to use them when required. Noel Hickey is no fan of conserving Ash trees, and there's a few like him.

But is that a bad thing? I say no. I think it's just another facet of the game that Kilkenny have perfected, and it's only a foul if the ref says it's a foul. I know we've been frustrated playing them, and in other games, because we seem to get pulled a lot for things Kilkenny would never be pulled for, but again that's not Kilkenny's problem.

I would not consider Kilkenny a dirty team, by a long stretch. I think they are cute, I think they walk the line, and I think they are fantastically gifted to boot. That's a fearsome combination, and it is why they are the best. But the rest have to raise their game to compete with them.

The only time I would have a problem is if you play Kilkenny, and give away frees for things that they are being let away with, but that happens rarely enough in my opinion.

That's what they did against Galway though, foul after foul, it's purpose was to stop Galway from getting more goals, and worked. It was persistant deliberate fouling.

On the rest of the post, you're right, it's great if you could do it and you sure as hell wouldn't be complaining if you're team were able to do it and get away with it. It's not always strictly a bad thing, though I do think they hop over the line a bit on occasions. They play the game and rules to the limit and that in a way is one of the things that makes them so good.

Aye, but they were blown up on those fouls. So they were conceding scores (1-9 from placed balls I think from JC). That's being streetwise and, yes, a bit cynical but not dirty.

Ya, true, and I didn't say it was dirty, just infuriating to watch, so I can only imagine how the poor Galway lads felt.

[AZOffaly]

Indiana, I think that's harsh. Maybe this year is a new departure, and they are starting to go to code red from the off, but over the Championships of the last few years, it only seemed they would take the physical approach when they were challenged in that way.

Certainly I don't remember them being dirty against Offaly or Wexford or Galway in those games, and they were only physical against Cork last year in the period when Cork were trying to put it up to them. When Cork ran out of steam, Kilkenny were happy to trot along easy. Same against Waterford in the final. Waterford tried to hit lads before the anthem, Kilkenny put an end to that lively after the ball was dropped, and then just hurled.

I think you have to expect Kilkenny to hit you, and hit you hard, but I don't think they've done anything particularly dirty. Of course that can change as players get slightly longer in the tooth, get a bit more narky, and are under arguably more pressure. This Kilkenny team will not want to be the team that got beaten.

[bottlethrower7]

Indiana, I think that's harsh.

Hes either on the wind-up or has an agenda.

I wouldn't waste time.

[bottlethrower7]

I do think they hop over the line a bit on occasions. They play the game and rules to the limit and that in a way is one of the things that makes them so good.

have any successful team ever been any different?

How about the Clare all-Ireland winning teams? Or Wexford.

sorry, but in my book if you're not willing to lay it on the line you won't reap the rewards.

be nice all you like. See where it gets you.

[INDIANA]

I'm entitled to my opinion bottlethrower- you might consider yourself some sort of a hurling scholar in your own mind.
When I see Kilkenny players repeatedly getting away with offences other counties get penalised for you begin to wonder is there any referee out there with a pair of balls to referee their matches in accordance with the rules. In my opinion there currently isn't as we saw last Saturday again.

[AZOffaly]

I'm entitled to my opinion bottlethrower- you might consider yourself some sort of a hurling scholar in your own mind.
When I see Kilkenny players repeatedly getting away with offences other counties get penalised for you begin to wonder is there any referee out there with a pair of balls to referee their matches in accordance with the rules. In my opinion there currently isn't as we saw last Saturday again.

INDY, have you gone anti-KK since Dublin won the semi final or something? I can't remember you being so 'down' on the Cats before now. I thought you were more or less of the same opinion as myself, basically hugely respectful of this Kilkenny team, and would love to be the team that beats them. Of course they are teak tough, and not afraid of the price of timber, but all good teams have an element of that. I haven't seen a marked slide towards anarchy in them yet, and as I say, if they are not being penalised, it's not their fault. Joe Canning scored 1-9 from placed balls on Saturday though, so Barry Kelly obviously gave some frees against them..

[bottlethrower7]

I'm entitled to my opinion bottlethrower- you might consider yourself some sort of a hurling scholar in your own mind.

thats the second time you've leveled that accusation at me. I think the first time you accused me of thinking myself some kind of 'authority', I think the word was.

Its petty. Very petty

[GalwayBayBoy]

on the Walsh incident. if he booked him for the slap in the hand then he should have been sent off for bringing down the attacker.

the first yellow card is for striking an opponent in the hand. if he was going for the ball then every hurler in the land would be striking people on the hand cause they have the ball. so yellow card, and not harsh IMO the other one is another yellow card. if you haul someone to the ground in football or hurling its a yellow card.

if Barry didn't send him off cause it was so soon after the first yellow card then he has made a mistake.

i referee and play the game. so I'm well versed in the rules. (as a player though i constantly break them) there was loads of early pulling in the game and while Murray's was bad I've seen others getting a yellow.

Difficulty in refereeing (from my view) is that you have to be consistent if your the type who blows early for over carrying then you must do it for both teams throughout the game, if you blow for soft challenge then you have to do it the whole game for both teams, same as for players slabbering, ya have to dish out the same warnings.

My point being, there was some tackles being aloud and others not

In fairness milltown i would say that every player in the land does strike a guys hand when the ball is in it at some time or another. I can attest to that fact, I was playing two matches at the weekend at full back...my hands are black and blue with quite a few cuts from where i was being slapped either coming out with the ball or in the process of catching it....its part of the game and im sure that i probably hit one or two of the forwards whilst contesting for the ball and it cant be helped. A lot of players also hit the players hands when he has possesion of the ball in a dirty fashion. One of the most common things is to slap a guy on the elbow as he is attempting to round you...this rarely gets even a free at club level (at least in the ones ive seen / competed in) and is quite prevalent at intercounty level aswell.  The ref was probably a little harsh imo to give walsh a yellow for it and i think this was uppermost in his mind when dealing with the second incident.

On the second incident he certainly wasnt hauled to the ground as you put it...it was a proffessional foul though and most certainly stopped a goal chance if not a goal  and deserved a yellow card...but imo getting sent off for those two incidents alone would have been harsh on tw.

In fairness I think everyone was pretty much in agreement here, I was delighted to see Murray get a straight red. Whatever about tommy walsh slapping etc...an argument could be made that he went for the ball on both occasions. In Murrays case it was blatantly to hit the man he was marking. It was really dangerous, if it was the age of no helmets it would have been a serious belt.

Look it is hard for the referee's to be consistent and to see everything. They generally do an extremely good job in my view...especially at intercounty level. If they blew by the book we would all be complaining...hurling is a game played best in the grey margin between wrong and right. In a lot of challenges there is one player or another doing something marginal...like how often do you see a forward first out to a ball and the back chopping the hurl as he goes to rise it?? A lot of stuff like this is let go because no one wants to see 70 frees every game.

Except in the first case Damien Hayes already had the ball in his hands when he got a slap. It wasn't like he was juggling for it. Walsh made no attempt at all in the second case to play the ball. He just took Smith out of it.

I thought Murray deserved what he got but it was just reckless play IMO rather than an attempt to deliberately hit someone. He wasn't even looking at the Kilkenny player he ended up hitting but when you pull wildly like that it's dangerous play.

Certainly would have no complaints about Murray but anyone thinking that Walsh didn't deserve the line is living in la la land I think.

[Reillers]

I do think they hop over the line a bit on occasions. They play the game and rules to the limit and that in a way is one of the things that makes them so good.

have any successful team ever been any different?

How about the Clare all-Ireland winning teams? Or Wexford.

sorry, but in my book if you're not willing to lay it on the line you won't reap the rewards.

be nice all you like. See where it gets you.

Has a succesful team ever been any different, no not really. But, has any team of late, been as succesfull playing the game the way Kilkenny do?

Like it's a man's game, if you have it, use it, use whatever weapons you in have in your arsenal, and I don't think, within reason obviously, that anyone should have to apologise for that. Now obviously if that involves dirty strikes, more then you'd get on a normal day, then that's another question, but you'll have teams whining, supporters whining every time someone like Kilkenny play the way they do, but I doubt for a second that there isn't a team out there that would say no for their team to be able to do what Kilkenny do.
It's a skill, Cody, whether it's right or wrong, has it down to an art at this stage, and that includes being able to make refs ref the game the way Cody wants it reffed, to an extent.

Do all teams need to bring a sense of cynicism into their game to be succesful, probably, do they need to go to the level that Kilkenny has gone to? Maybe not. Like Cork's success over the last few years wasn't nearly as tough as Kikenny's game style, I mean, that's how Kilkenny beat you, Cork's plan was to pretty much out run you. My point is that you don't need to play like that, the way Kilkenny do to win, but you do need to play like that to beat Kilkenny, and there in lies the problem, no one is as good as playing that type of game like Kilkenny are.

[INDIANA]

I'm entitled to my opinion bottlethrower- you might consider yourself some sort of a hurling scholar in your own mind.
When I see Kilkenny players repeatedly getting away with offences other counties get penalised for you begin to wonder is there any referee out there with a pair of balls to referee their matches in accordance with the rules. In my opinion there currently isn't as we saw last Saturday again.

INDY, have you gone anti-KK since Dublin won the semi final or something? I can't remember you being so 'down' on the Cats before now. I thought you were more or less of the same opinion as myself, basically hugely respectful of this Kilkenny team, and would love to be the team that beats them. Of course they are teak tough, and not afraid of the price of timber, but all good teams have an element of that. I haven't seen a marked slide towards anarchy in them yet, and as I say, if they are not being penalised, it's not their fault. Joe Canning scored 1-9 from placed balls on Saturday though, so Barry Kelly obviously gave some frees against them..

I'm entitled to my opinion bottlethrower- you might consider yourself some sort of a hurling scholar in your own mind.
When I see Kilkenny players repeatedly getting away with offences other counties get penalised for you begin to wonder is there any referee out there with a pair of balls to referee their matches in accordance with the rules. In my opinion there currently isn't as we saw last Saturday again.

INDY, have you gone anti-KK since Dublin won the semi final or something? I can't remember you being so 'down' on the Cats before now. I thought you were more or less of the same opinion as myself, basically hugely respectful of this Kilkenny team, and would love to be the team that beats them. Of course they are teak tough, and not afraid of the price of timber, but all good teams have an element of that. I haven't seen a marked slide towards anarchy in them yet, and as I say, if they are not being penalised, it's not their fault. Joe Canning scored 1-9 from placed balls on Saturday though, so Barry Kelly obviously gave some frees against them..

I was at the league final and several of their games last year and I've watched that game twice now. In my view they've changed their style of hurling in the last 18mths because they know ultimately they won't get sent off. And they won't either. Initially I thought it was just a few games which can happen to any side, but there is a definite pattern now where they'll lamp a few key players knowing ultimately referees will be reluctant to send them off.
Richie Murray is  a case study- a wild pull nowhere near the ball -didn't connect with anyone though. Tommy Walsh gave Damien Hayes a wild rap and did connect- nowhere near the ball and gets a yellow. Like where is the consistency in that .
Galway people could not possibly be happy with either of those decisions.
Dublin up front physically won't be able to match kilkenny- too many young players that will be horsed out of it unfortunately.

[theskull1]

Tommy Walsh is very loose in the challenge and yes I would consider him now to be a dirty player. Eddie Brennan has his moments but when someone drops their head into your outstretched arms which results in the stick round the neck,  I even don't that consider that a foul let alone a yellow card offense (canning is no fool). I struggle to think of another KK player who could be considered "dirty" per se, so how Indiana, you can label the team dirty is as beyond me as it is others. The blinkers are well and truly on coming up to the final