Ulster Football - are the critics that far off the mark?

[A Quinn Martin Production]

I have been advised to put a small bet on Antrim to take Donegal next weekend. 

No more than 50p rrhf...This Antrim team is nowhere near good enough...Donegal by 8

[kevmy]

That's not true at all, only Tyrone or Armagh have won Ulster in the last 10 years and Tyrone are strong favourites to win it again this year so how is Ulster 'tight'? Ulster is the same as the other provinces, it has one or two outstanding teams and the rest are incapable of beating them. Now that Armagh are gone Ulster really only has one outstanding team that the rest of the country would fear, though Derry are coming good, so they might have two soon.  There are a lot of very poor teams in Ulster and outside of Tyrone, no exceptional ones.

What I meant was outside of Tyrone and Armagh all the other teams are equal enough and are striving to make an Ulster final. If you look at Leinster, Carlow and Wicklow and Offaly are considerably worse than Laois and Kildare and Meath who are in turn a good bit off Dublin who aren't great either.
Same in Connacht NY and London are a joke, Leitrim, Ros and Sligo on a similar level and then Mayo and Galway way ahead.

Basically Ulster is large enough and even enough (bar Tyrone and Armagh) than any other county believes they can beat the other - give this a couple of years and bitterness and negativity will emerge. That is unfortunately the trap alot of teams in Ulster have fallen into

[Zulu]

I don't really think that is true, in Ulster you have Tyrone out on their own, then you have Derry and Monaghan, after that it would be Armagh and Donegal, with Fermanagh, Down and Cavan probably next, and Antrim propping up the lot. Now you could argue about which teams should be in each level but it certainly isn't a case of Tyrone out in front and the rest more or less the same, there are levels in Ulster just like there are in other provinces.

[Rossfan]

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My own view is that Ulster is 'tight' only because it's very poorly refereed -

Would this refer to all games or only those played in the 6 Cos where there's no Garda protection for the Ref ? 

[mackers]

Of these 5 or so teams (Monaghan, Derry, Down, Fermanagh, Donegal) each can beat each other which means the games are competitive. This has unfortunately lead to bitterness creeping into the whole Ulster Championship.

My own view is that Ulster is 'tight' only because it's very poorly refereed - as Zulu says, Tyrone are easily the best team, but could find themselves in 'danger' because Derry/Armagh/Monaghan might decide, tactically, to kick them off the field, and feel confident that they'd be allowed (by the referee) to do so. 

I'm gonna have to get you to explain that one as it is refereed by the same set of refs as the other provinces, the days of it being reffed only by Ulster refs have gone, yer man Hickey was from Clare, for example, and this year's Ulster championship has seen probably the best refereeing performance by Pat McEneaney.
Your point about Tyrone being easily the best team doesn't stack up. If they were then they would have dominated the competition over the past number of years.

[Zulu]

They are now.

[mackers]

They are now.

We'll see...........I think the Tyrone-Derry semi is the final but I think it will be close.
I just disagree that it's tight because it's reffed poorly, Down didn't try to "kick" Tyrone out of it last year when they beat them. Billy has suggested that is the only way for the rest of Ulster to win Ulster. Armagh didn't get a chance to "kick" Tyrone out of it since 2005 in Ulster and they won two titles in the last three years.
Paper thin argument.

[Main Street]

I'm gonna have to get you to explain that one as it is refereed by the same set of refs as the other provinces, the days of it being reffed only by Ulster refs have gone, yer man Hickey was from Clare, for example, and this year's Ulster championship has seen probably the best refereeing performance by Pat McEneaney.

You were doing alright until you scored an own goal.

[Billys Boots]

Billy has suggested that is the only way for the rest of Ulster to win Ulster.

I said nothing of the sort, thank you kindly.

[mackers]

My own view is that Ulster is 'tight' only because it's very poorly refereed - as Zulu says, Tyrone are easily the best team, but could find themselves in 'danger' because Derry/Armagh/Monaghan might decide, tactically, to kick them off the field, and feel confident that they'd be allowed (by the referee) to do so. 
[/quote]
Billy, the above post implies that the only way the rest of Ulster has of beating Tyrone is by "kicking" them off the park, or did you mean something else?

[Billys Boots]

I don't think it's the only way, but (to me, for as far back as I can remember, and that's quite a while) Ulster is the province where that tactic seems to be accepted by referees as within the rules.  I might draw your attention to the uproar when any (non-Ulster) referee tries to apply the rules - e.g. John Bannon and Armagh.

[talktothehand]

They are now.

We'll see...........I think the Tyrone-Derry semi is the final but I think it will be close.
I just disagree that it's tight because it's reffed poorly, Down didn't try to "kick" Tyrone out of it last year when they beat them. Billy has suggested that is the only way for the rest of Ulster to win Ulster. Armagh didn't get a chance to "kick" Tyrone out of it since 2005 in Ulster and they won two titles in the last three years.Paper thin argument.

didn't watch the ulster final replay that year then did you??

[mackers]

I don't think it's the only way, but (to me, for as far back as I can remember, and that's quite a while) Ulster is the province where that tactic seems to be accepted by referees as within the rules.  I might draw your attention to the uproar when any (non-Ulster) referee tries to apply the rules - e.g. John Bannon and Armagh.

Think we'll have to agree to disagree, don't really see your point. I'm not denying that matches in Ulster can be terrible to watch (Derry - Monaghan and Saturday night's game are good examples) but your statement that other teams only being able to beat Tyrone by kicking them off the field is unfair.

They are now.

We'll see...........I think the Tyrone-Derry semi is the final but I think it will be close.
I just disagree that it's tight because it's reffed poorly, Down didn't try to "kick" Tyrone out of it last year when they beat them. Billy has suggested that is the only way for the rest of Ulster to win Ulster. Armagh didn't get a chance to "kick" Tyrone out of it since 2005 in Ulster and they won two titles in the last three years.Paper thin argument.

didn't watch the ulster final replay that year then did you??

Please note the word "since" in my post. I think the point that most Tyrone people complained about after that match was the poor refereeing, not Armagh's rough play.
And where was the ref from that day?..........

[Billys Boots]

your statement that other teams only being able to beat Tyrone by kicking them off the field is unfair

I made no such statement.

[mackers]

your statement that other teams only being able to beat Tyrone by kicking them off the field is unfair

I made no such statement.

What point were trying to make in your first post on this thread, I've told you how I have picked you up on it. Am I wrong? Ulster is ONLY tight because it is reffed poorly.....................other teams may decide to tactically kick them off the field and refs let them do so....................what am I missing?