Senseless attacks on Orange Halls

[Roger]

whatever about the different beliefs on the communion (though if protestants dont believe in it, why go through the rigmarole of stillcopying catholocism so many years after the 'reformation'!) I have posted prev on this board where it has been observed that known oo/protestants (from Derry city or north Derry) have gone to mass in south county Derry and have taken holy communion ! ! !
whats that all about ! 

I don't know what that is about.  I don't know why you add the smiley either at the end except unless you think it suitable since you are talking about Prods and OO members and they are due ridicule even though you are ignorant of their beliefs.

I find it bizarre that oo people who 'hate' (until they took the mission statement of hatred against all things catholic down from their website in the past couple of years) catholics as a foundation to their 'organisation' - see it being ok to go to a catholic mass and take holy communion.
That deserves a smiley imo !

There are many bizarre things about all religious organisations for me.  You might want to show a bit of respect and tolerance towards them rather than blindly ridiculing one side over the other.  Prods and the OO aren't going to go away and they aren't doing anything wrong so get over it and quit the one-sided bigotry.

I dont know a whole lot about protestant beliefs, what I know about the oo is not the lovely dove loving family pet stroking 'people' they NOW portray themselves to be -  despite your protestations and airbrushing of how 'nice' they are and we just don't 'understand' them !

I am on record on this thread criticising the OO for it's involvement in social unrest and acting divisively. I don't see why you or anyone should be attacking their religious beliefs when you admit you "don't know a whole lot about protestant beliefs".  That's simply religious bigotry based on ignorance.

the oo are going to have to EARN respect, as they killed and indulged in that apartheid for decades, so a suddenly altered website doesnt change things. You are extremely naive to think that this is the case!!

I think we all have had enough experience ot the oo over the past number of decades to know exactly what they are like and the knd of people they are or at least were. Its going to take time and a lot of open highlighted changes by these people to try to redress their previous sectarian life !!

Listen to you and your preconditions for society!!  The OO is a religious order with religious views. You ridicule their religious views blindly. Such sectarian bigotry whether against Catholic, Protestant, Muslim, Jewish or whatever orders needs eradicated.   

[Myles Na G.]

I have posted prev on this board where it has been observed that known oo/protestants (from Derry city or north Derry) have gone to mass in south county Derry and have taken holy communion ! ! !
whats that all about !    

I had never heard of people receiving holy communion from priests when the prists knew they were not catholic !

That's two apparently contradictory statements you've made within a couple of posts of each other, LB. Care to explain?
 

 

[Rossfan]

  The OO is a religious order with religious views. .   

Surely Roger the Orange Order is as much political as it is fundamentalist extreme Protestant.
They seem to think that to be a true Prod you have to be loyal to the British monarch.

[lynchbhoy]

I have posted prev on this board where it has been observed that known oo/protestants (from Derry city or north Derry) have gone to mass in south county Derry and have taken holy communion ! ! !
whats that all about !    

I had never heard of people receiving holy communion from priests when the prists knew they were not catholic !

That's two apparently contradictory statements you've made within a couple of posts of each other, LB. Care to explain?
 

the priest in the first instance didnt know the recipients were not catholic. They were from another part of Derry miles away and unknown to that localty, but not a few 'viviting ' massgoers that recognised them.

the second is the answer to someone saying tha the priest indeed did know the recipients were not catholics.


obv enough I would have thought !

[Roger]

  The OO is a religious order with religious views. .   

Surely Roger the Orange Order is as much political as it is fundamentalist extreme Protestant.
They seem to think that to be a true Prod you have to be loyal to the British monarch.

It takes a Political viewpoint in the UK based on advantage to the Protestant religion.

What it has been criticised by ignorant people for here is its religious views based on personal prejudice against it. I have no doubt that this prejudice is because of the Political position it takes but it is still based on ignorance.  Btw, I don't think it views that to be a true Prod you have to be loyal to the British Monarch but that in the UK is what they do.  I imagine that to be a good Catholic people don't have to follow the rules and regulations of Catholic orders.  It's just what some people do.

[The Watcher Pat]

Is your sister's partner a member of the OO?  If so he is not permitted to take part in or even attend a mass otherwise he should face disciplinary procedure and possible expulsion

He is not Roger but i think thats why his sisters husband doesnt want to go. His choice really its not that theres going to be loads of people from his lodge there to see him though!

[Myles Na G.]

the priest in the first instance didnt know the recipients were not catholic. They were from another part of Derry miles away and unknown to that localty, but not a few 'viviting ' massgoers that recognised them.

the second is the answer to someone saying tha the priest indeed did know the recipients were not catholics.


obv enough I would have thought !  

Fair enough.

[stew]

Are members of the OO allowed to enter a catholic church? Reason I'm asking is because my sisters child gets christened on Sunday, her partner is a Protestant and his sister is standing for the child along with me. His sisters husband has said he will not go in to the chapel. Is there something in the OO rules to prevent him.

The established Protestant Churches have certain beliefs regarding shared communion / Eucharist.  Their members wouldn't be excommunicatd for doing so but due to theological differences the clergy or elders/leaders within the church may face some form of discipline. Is your sister's partner a member of the OO?  If so he is not permitted to take part in or even attend a mass otherwise he should face disciplinary procedure and possible expulsion.  In reality a lot of OO members attend RC services (mainly funerals and weddings) but don't take part in the communion bit.  Individual lodges, who are responsible for discipline of members, seem to turn a blind eye to this breach of rules more often than not.  I was once told that Political reps who are members of the OO often attend RC funerals but exit discreetly prior to the communion mass. This is apparently consistent with their own religion and also still shows respect to whomever the service is for.  I personally think that this is fair enough if that is what they believe. RC's are similarly not meant to partake in Protestant communion (I think Mary McAleece got criticised heavily for doing so a few years ago) but they often do and others just don't take it and presumably others just don't attend (less likely as their rules aren't as clear cut and they can always confess and move on I suppose).  If that is what they believe then that is fair enough in my opinion too.  If it was to do with any of my family members, I wouldn't take any offense by someone attending or not attending a religious service if their own / different beliefs or religion prevented it.  My sister-in-law baptised her son recently and had a similar situation with her aunt who is an atheist who simply said she wouldn't be attending but would see everyone after for the family get together.

As far as I recall Mary McAleese took 'communion' at an ecumentical cross religious ceremony and the flak you are remembering is that protestants took to a church along with her and many (extreme) protestants came out in fury that the ceremony happened!!

Hang on a wee minute.  She was accused of betrayal by RC Church clergy.  The communion issue is a two-way debate and a heated one at that.  There is currently a bit of a handling in Canada about this as the PM took RC communion and the RC's aren't pleased about. Other countries have similar issues. This isn't a case Catholics are decent, welcoming folk and the Prods are all fanatical c***ts. There is more religious theology involved than your neat little caricature of life in Ireland and who is to blame for all Ireland's problems.

When it comes to communion I have to agree with the Prods and more than once I have taken communion at a Baptist Church. If any Priest wants me excommunicated for this he can fire away. McAleese has every right to accept communion in a Protestant Church, in Mass I have never actually believed that I was eating and drinking the body and blood of Christ and never will.

[lynchbhoy]

So the whole of the catholic church is going beserk over mary macalese taking non catholc communion ?
Irrespective of the instance , you are trumping up something here that is not quite the case.
IF a couple of priests etc have been quoted of saying somethign like that in the media, then it hardly contitutues
the entire Catholic religion say for example, putting this on their 'website' as their mantra !
a couple of people complained about it, big deal. (a couple out of millions - !)
get a grip , this 'example' you are trying to jump on and use just doesnt wash !

You misrepresent the discussion.  You dived in to highlight it was Prods that yet again weren't happy and unwelcoming when it was actually the reverse.  Since your post was irrelevant you now try to belittle a similar position you took in the first place.

- thats hardly sensible now is it !

Good. Admitting it is the first stage.

I am criticising he oo and picking a large hole in your tirade against Catholic church. I am not critiscising protestant churches.
I find it amusing that there are protestants that go to Holy Communion !
It could so be that the reverse is true as well (catholics going to protestant communion).
Anyhow it doesnt get away from the point that your examples are weak and not indicative of the vast majority in the world.

I have no tirade against the Catholic Church.  I have stated that there were negative contributions on both sides and different theological opinions on both sides.  I have not criticised anyone's religious beliefs or the Catholic Church. All I've done is highlighted a policy that makes a monkey of your entirely one-sided Orange state apartheid stuff and 'Prods are bad' nonsense based on your own ignorance of one religion and blind religious bigotry towards it.

-Again - thats not exactly a sensible reply. Plenty of folk on here wont admit to their lack of knowledge on certain things.

You admit you don't know much about something then criticise it blindly.  Do you think you are being sensible?

- if you say so !

You'd like it if it were that simple as it would fit in with your own view.  I would like to think you are being naive or even childish but you are not and are simply prejudiced against Protestants and unquestioning of RCs.  Such a position is sad.

Quote from: lynchbhoy on Today at 05:05:32 PM
So the whole of the catholic church is going beserk over mary macalese taking non catholc communion ?
Irrespective of the instance , you are trumping up something here that is not quite the case.
IF a couple of priests etc have been quoted of saying somethign like that in the media, then it hardly contitutues
the entire Catholic religion say for example, putting this on their 'website' as their mantra !
a couple of people complained about it, big deal. (a couple out of millions - !)
get a grip , this 'example' you are trying to jump on and use just doesnt wash !

You misrepresent the discussion.  You dived in to highlight it was Prods that yet again weren't happy and
unwelcoming when it was actually the reverse.  Since your post was irrelevant you now try to belittle a
similar position you took in the first place.
- if YOU are not happy about it , I dont take this to mean the entire protestant nation is. Point here is you are
ramping this up. A non-point as per usual!


Quote
- thats hardly sensible now is it !
Good. Admitting it is the first stage.
- Hopefully you will improve on this as you go through more years in school.



Quote
I am criticising he oo and picking a large hole in your tirade against Catholic church. I am not critiscising
protestant churches.
I find it amusing that there are protestants that go to Holy Communion !
It could so be that the reverse is true as well (catholics going to protestant communion).
Anyhow it doesnt get away from the point that your examples are weak and not indicative of the vast majority in
the world.


I have no tirade against the Catholic Church.  I have stated that there were negative contributions on both
sides and different theological opinions on both sides.  I have not criticised anyone's religious beliefs or the Catholic Church. All I've done is highlighted a policy that makes a monkey of your entirely one-sided Orange state apartheid stuff and 'Prods are bad' nonsense based on your own ignorance of one religion and blind religious bigotry towards it.


Quote
-Again - thats not exactly a sensible reply. Plenty of folk on here wont admit to their lack of knowledge on certain things.
You admit you don't know much about something then criticise it blindly.  Do you think you are being sensible?
-my own, the documented and observed actions of the oo (you continue to support and speak up for them obviously enough)
are by the Irish and global audience leaves nothing to the imagination. It is not put on or imagined.
I recall reading the old oo web site and being appalled by their hatred of catholocism and the pope for example.
Their actions in the north of Ireland - well you cannot airbrush that away !




Quote
- if you say so !
You'd like it if it were that simple as it would fit in with your own view. 
I would like to think you are being naive or even childish but you are not and are simply
prejudiced against Protestants and unquestioning of RCs.  Such a position is sad.
- prejudiced ! why is that now. Most people dislke the oo or any other similar organisation (they are a gang of violent action
more than a religios order) because of what they have done. All your idle chat about how peace lovin they are
does not paper over their actions of the past.
These klu klux loyalists have to earn respect and have a long way to go based on what they did for decades.
Maybe I am speaking formyself, but I would be astonished to think that too many nationalist/Irish/Catholics think any differently.

it aint me thats sad or defending the oo !!!

[lynchbhoy]

whatever about the different beliefs on the communion (though if protestants dont believe in it, why go through the rigmarole of stillcopying catholocism so many years after the 'reformation'!) I have posted prev on this board where it has been observed that known oo/protestants (from Derry city or north Derry) have gone to mass in south county Derry and have taken holy communion ! ! !
whats that all about ! 

I don't know what that is about.  I don't know why you add the smiley either at the end except unless you think it suitable since you are talking about Prods and OO members and they are due ridicule even though you are ignorant of their beliefs.

I find it bizarre that oo people who 'hate' (until they took the mission statement of hatred against all things catholic down from their website in the past couple of years) catholics as a foundation to their 'organisation' - see it being ok to go to a catholic mass and take holy communion.
That deserves a smiley imo !

There are many bizarre things about all religious organisations for me.  You might want to show a bit of respect and tolerance towards them rather than blindly ridiculing one side over the other.  Prods and the OO aren't going to go away and they aren't doing anything wrong so get over it and quit the one-sided bigotry.

I dont know a whole lot about protestant beliefs, what I know about the oo is not the lovely dove loving family pet stroking 'people' they NOW portray themselves to be -  despite your protestations and airbrushing of how 'nice' they are and we just don't 'understand' them !

I am on record on this thread criticising the OO for it's involvement in social unrest and acting divisively. I don't see why you or anyone should be attacking their religious beliefs when you admit you "don't know a whole lot about protestant beliefs".  That's simply religious bigotry based on ignorance.

the oo are going to have to EARN respect, as they killed and indulged in that apartheid for decades, so a suddenly altered website doesnt change things. You are extremely naive to think that this is the case!!

I think we all have had enough experience ot the oo over the past number of decades to know exactly what they are like and the knd of people they are or at least were. Its going to take time and a lot of open highlighted changes by these people to try to redress their previous sectarian life !!

Listen to you and your preconditions for society!!  The OO is a religious order with religious views. You ridicule their religious views blindly. Such sectarian bigotry whether against Catholic, Protestant, Muslim, Jewish or whatever orders needs eradicated.   

they stopped being a 'religious order' a long ime ago when they delved into assisting with the murky business of bearing arms or supporting/aideing and abetting those who did so - c company and their steriod fuelled killers !

see if many others agree with you there rogetr!

[lynchbhoy]

whatever about the different beliefs on the communion (though if protestants dont believe in it, why go through the rigmarole of stillcopying catholocism so many years after the 'reformation'!) I have posted prev on this board where it has been observed that known oo/protestants (from Derry city or north Derry) have gone to mass in south county Derry and have taken holy communion ! ! !
whats that all about ! 

I don't know what that is about.  I don't know why you add the smiley either at the end except unless you think it suitable since you are talking about Prods and OO members and they are due ridicule even though you are ignorant of their beliefs.

I find it bizarre that oo people who 'hate' (until they took the mission statement of hatred against all things catholic down from their website in the past couple of years) catholics as a foundation to their 'organisation' - see it being ok to go to a catholic mass and take holy communion.
That deserves a smiley imo !

There are many bizarre things about all religious organisations for me.  You might want to show a bit of respect and tolerance towards them rather than blindly ridiculing one side over the other.  Prods and the OO aren't going to go away and they aren't doing anything wrong so get over it and quit the one-sided bigotry.

I dont know a whole lot about protestant beliefs, what I know about the oo is not the lovely dove loving family pet stroking 'people' they NOW portray themselves to be -  despite your protestations and airbrushing of how 'nice' they are and we just don't 'understand' them !

I am on record on this thread criticising the OO for it's involvement in social unrest and acting divisively. I don't see why you or anyone should be attacking their religious beliefs when you admit you "don't know a whole lot about protestant beliefs".  That's simply religious bigotry based on ignorance.

the oo are going to have to EARN respect, as they killed and indulged in that apartheid for decades, so a suddenly altered website doesnt change things. You are extremely naive to think that this is the case!!

I think we all have had enough experience ot the oo over the past number of decades to know exactly what they are like and the knd of people they are or at least were. Its going to take time and a lot of open highlighted changes by these people to try to redress their previous sectarian life !!

Listen to you and your preconditions for society!!  The OO is a religious order with religious views. You ridicule their religious views blindly. Such sectarian bigotry whether against Catholic, Protestant, Muslim, Jewish or whatever orders needs eradicated.   

btw its interesting for you to tell me about the Catholic church.
Interesting as you , as far as I kow are not a member or have ever darkened its doors !
Whereas I have been a massgoer for some 40 odd years, and if I dont know about some aspects of what the church is doing in various places, then its no big deal.
I have been to masses throughout Ireland, England/Scotland/Europe/USA and beyond and most general practices have not escaped me.
the blessings one, well thats different but maybe a 'new fangled' thing as it certainly wasnt about a while back.
It makes no odds, and while I welcome and applaud such new revisions, I still thnk that your 'tail wagging the dog is part of your agenda' - whether its one of equalisation or to portray the Catholic church in a 'bad light'.
A few bad eggs do not change what has been and still is a fanastic institution and giver of help to billions on the planet.
Conversely we have the likes of the oo that you champion, who unlike the Catholic hurch and their condemnation of IRA and violence, the oo actively assisted the lvf/uvf/loyalist/unionist gangs and therefore are NOT what can be constituted as a 'religious' organisation !

Anyhow, if you wish to give more insight into the Catholic church, please go to the masses (take communion if you want to join with fellow oo members who do this) and then after a while of proper knowledge and understanding  - get back to me with your insights. Please dont quote s***t that you get from the chip wrappers and go on to embelish !
thanks

[Main Street]

The OO is a religious order with religious views.

On the contrary, it does not fit the description of a religious order.
It is a political organisation with strict religious criteria as the basis for membership.

[lynchbhoy]

The OO is a religious order with religious views.

On the contrary, it does fit the description of a religious order.
It is a political organisation with strict religious criteria as the basis for membership.

thought that was entry criteria for a cult ?

doesnt compassion, forgiveness and the intent to perform compassionate and decent acts towards all peoples not underpin all REAL' religions' not these makey uppy things like free presbyterianism and oo !

[Main Street]

 
Sorry about that, you must have thought i was off my rocker.
Post edited now.

[croker]

 I  deplore all attacks on Orange Order/ people/ institutions / halls/property and heritage.It is part of their culture heritage. Put  it this way no Protestant has done me wrong. In fact none have ever done me any any harm.And quite a few have shown me true christianity and charitable spirit without being talkative about it. Lets live together and emblish the past. And GAA is part of my  heritage!
When we go to make our God I dont think he will ask you are you are you black/ white/christian/ muslim otc or agnostic. But we all make stupid mistakes( mostly through "man man made "drugs.
Thats why we are human. May people and God forgive us