Author Topic: Footballing lesson from the Aussies  (Read 7419 times)

darbyo

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Footballing lesson from the Aussies
« on: November 13, 2006, 06:34:06 PM »
Now that things have died down a bit anybody else feel that the Aussies underlined how ordinary we are at our national game.Like the English soccer public we often talk big about our footballers, unlike the English we don't have a World Cup to show us poorly we play the game we invented. Futher evidence  can be taken from the weekend just past when talented well prepared club teams from around the country failed to get more than 5 scores in 60 minutes of football   

Gnevin

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Re: Footballing lesson from the Aussies
« Reply #1 on: November 13, 2006, 07:03:44 PM »
Every year since about 2002 which it may just be a coincidence that armagh won that year we've be told about  how x part of the game is dying. This year alone ....

We where told that the goal is dieing out yet kerry and mayo go out and score 7 in a ai final
Dublin and Mayo score 3 in the semi final
Kerry and Armagh score 4 in the quarter final.

We where all told the game of the long ball is dead then Kerry find a 6 foot + target man and its long balls all over the place

We where all told the high ball and fielding in the middle of the park was gone dead finished never to seen again , yet Whelan and Ryan , O Se and  Moynihan and other proceed to pull high ball out of the air like their was glue on their gloves .

Just because we cant play a mongrel game doesn't mean our own game is in trouble .

Anyway, long story short... is a phrase whose origins are complicated and rambling.

bridgegael

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Re: Footballing lesson from the Aussies
« Reply #2 on: November 13, 2006, 07:15:39 PM »
international rules s not a game off skill.  too suggest otherwise is crazy.  if the austrailians were to play against us in a gaelic match there would be no contest,  their whole ethos is their tackle.
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darbyo

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Re: Footballing lesson from the Aussies
« Reply #3 on: November 13, 2006, 07:22:36 PM »
Nor do a few few stats prove it is not. I'm not suggesting that the game has gone down in standard in recent years I'm saying that maybe we have never got close to realizing how good the game could be. The All-Ireland like you say produced 7 goals but it was a brutal game and hardly evidence of a generally positive approach to attacking football.Yesterday 3 county champions managed to score 7 points between them in the club championship. The season just past produced Derry/Tyrone and Cork/Limerick low scoring mistake riddled games. I'm not criticizing anyone what I'm saying is I feel there should be a serious overhaul of our coaching structures to try to produce more rounded footballers comfortable in all the basic aspects of the game.

darbyo

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Re: Footballing lesson from the Aussies
« Reply #4 on: November 13, 2006, 07:35:00 PM »
Mike will respond to you on this tread to keep all relevant points on the one page. I agree and disagree with on both your points Mike but I think your forgetting and this is the crux of my arguement, we see the exact same mistakes on the football fields of the country year in year out.Balls dropped into keepers arms,woefully misdirected passes,indesisive slow build ups,poor handling,and poor finishing when point/ goal opportunities arise. Forget about the Aussies they just show us that we should expect more from ourselves.I know their professional athletes but a guy raised playing a game and reaching the very top should surely still look a bit more accomplished than a pro. who is playing the game for only a few weeks

Rufus T Firefly

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Re: Footballing lesson from the Aussies
« Reply #5 on: November 13, 2006, 09:36:36 PM »
Now that things have died down a bit anybody else feel that the Aussies underlined how ordinary we are at our national game.Like the English soccer public we often talk big about our footballers, unlike the English we don't have a World Cup to show us poorly we play the game we invented. Futher evidence  can be taken from the weekend just past when talented well prepared club teams from around the country failed to get more than 5 scores in 60 minutes of football   

Regarding your opening question, my answer is no. Many people for some reason view The International Rules/Compromise Rules as being closer to Gaelic than to Aussie Rules - the round ball is highlighted as the reason. In my opinion the tackle far outweighs the round ball argument and renders the notion, that last week's game is comparable to Gaelic, as obsolete.

It follows therefore that nothing about the skills of our players can be read into last week's fiasco.


Pangurban

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Re: Footballing lesson from the Aussies
« Reply #6 on: November 13, 2006, 09:49:58 PM »
Agree with your general points Darbyo, but your suggested solution is actually part of the problem, we need less of this so called coaching, not more. Listen to the mantras of todays coaches, get behind the ball, play tight dont give the ball away, dont shoot under pressure...a good summation of all this nonsense would be dont take responsibility, dont kick the ball if there is another option,play negatively.  The basic skills of gaelic football are not being taught or practised. When a team like Mayobridge records 1 point in a game,and other Co. Champions are faring little better, then there is something seriously wrong. I am pointing the finger firmly at the modern coaches and tacticians, if someone has another theory im willing to listen.

youbetterbelieveit

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Re: Footballing lesson from the Aussies
« Reply #7 on: November 13, 2006, 11:02:35 PM »
i agree with pangurban, the game as it is played today, is a pale shadow of previous years, the open flowing football is been restricted by negative tactics and coaching in the modern era.

Bogball XV

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Re: Footballing lesson from the Aussies
« Reply #8 on: November 13, 2006, 11:06:19 PM »
Lads, theres been a massive over reaction to this beating, do none of you remember 2004, we absoultely hammered them - i was there with some Aussies and they were embarrassed by the display.  We have handed out plenty of good beatings so getting a few isn't something we shoudl be getting too worried about just yet.  It should also be borne in mind that a sub standard irish team was picked, I dunno what Boylan's thinking was, but it was seriously flawed as were the tactics.

DuperDee

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Re: Footballing lesson from the Aussies
« Reply #9 on: November 13, 2006, 11:20:51 PM »
I don't want t get involved in the ongoing rights and wrongs of last Sundays game. I was very annoyed by some of the behaviour and the fact that the referees did not deal with it. To see it live there was so much not caught on TV.

But my main point is that modern Gaelic football is not suited by the rules at present. We should not criticise our current game just because of last Sunday

Kicking the ball is a skill - the absence of has been heavily criticised. But in football there is no benefit in kicking to the man as he will be closely marked. Most teams are coached to kick to the space and there is great movement in the forward line. We have moved away from the big static full forward. Kerry's Donaghy has great movement as well as height.

One area that has developed over the past few years is tackling skills - this is true for all teams not just those from Ulster. The Compromise rules does not allow the defender to tackle once the Mark has been called. In football if the defender cannot punch the ball away or win it clean the option is to tackle - Delay, and Deny Space  - as told by the coaching gurus -

We should recognise how our game has developed over the past few years and accept that it is a different game than 10 years ago - this does not mean that it is any worse for that developemnt


armaghniac

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Re: Footballing lesson from the Aussies
« Reply #10 on: November 13, 2006, 11:34:34 PM »
The point is that we don't need to look to the Aussies for comparisions, some Gaelic football teams do score goals, use foot passes etc, Kerry are a good example. I attended the Crossmaglen  Rangers Mullahoran game and Rangers have not forgotten the use of the foot pass. The answer lies within the GAA as much as with the Aussies.

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dubnut

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Re: Footballing lesson from the Aussies
« Reply #11 on: November 14, 2006, 09:24:45 AM »
A poor International rules showing isnt a refelction of the standard of Gaelic football as its a different sport.
Too much though is given to this query, I havent heard many people question if maybe its due to the levels of professionalism improving in Australia.
Either way, I have seen enough this year to convince me Gaelic football is in a healthy state.
Whether we can compete with full time professionals is irrelevant as it doesnt apply in our sport.

Fuzzman

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Re: Footballing lesson from the Aussies
« Reply #12 on: November 14, 2006, 09:46:57 AM »
Usually one team copies the winning formula of another team and so our game changes.

Armagh used the extra defender/sweeper in 2002 and played with a two man full forward line.

Tyrone used this and built on it by creating the swarm defense from every section of the field. They also used the hand pass much more than armagh as winning clean ball in midfield has always been a problem for Tyrone.

Teams saw this was effective and copied it but this lead to matches which are much more negative and defensive now with low scores and a lot more scrappy niggly games.

I think that's why people were glad to see the whole Kieran Donaghy style coming back in and the excitement it brings. I can see managers move away again from defensive play, at least I hope so for Tyrone.

tayto

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Re: Footballing lesson from the Aussies
« Reply #13 on: November 14, 2006, 10:33:41 AM »
A poor International rules showing isnt a refelction of the standard of Gaelic football as its a different sport.
Too much though is given to this query, I havent heard many people question if maybe its due to the levels of professionalism improving in Australia.
Either way, I have seen enough this year to convince me Gaelic football is in a healthy state.
Whether we can compete with full time professionals is irrelevant as it doesnt apply in our sport.

Spot on. Our lads were also clearly rattled by the violence that mared the first 15 minutes. You had intercounty players unable to kick a simple pass.

No1

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Re: Footballing lesson from the Aussies
« Reply #14 on: November 14, 2006, 10:58:45 AM »
  Just a reply to the original subject.  Barry Hall gave an exhibition of high fielding and excellent score taking in the second test.  He was absolutely fantastic.  You couldn't help compare him to our lads, and he was head and shoulders above them all - football wise.