Extending the hand of friendship to Unionism: Wise or unwise?

[Lar Naparka]

It's great to hear that there are plenty of cases of Protestants getting involved with their local GAA clubs without waiting for the launch of any official initiative.
I wonder how long this co-operation has been going on.
I presume that all young Prods who play are still at underage level as there has been little or no mention of the fact anywhere in the media.
I did hear of a group of youngsters, chosen from a number of schools in the Belfast region, who went to the States on a goodwill trip last year or the previous one.
The kids were drawn from schools across the religious divide and ASAIK, they played a number of exhibition hurling games.
School initiatives like this tend to be more show than substance and it's at club level that real progress is needed.
I am curious as to the form the official approaches will take. I'm assuming that GAA officials have a strategy worked out but I've heard little or nothing about this.
Does anyone know what is happening

[theskull1]

If only we had a few more paid officials to do such things





.....that was sarcasm btw

[Evil Genius]

As I see it, the GAA may retain its (historic) Nationalist political ethos; or, it may hope to appeal to Unionists in NI. It cannot do both simultaneously.

Your organisation, your choice.

P.S. Can the title of this thread be changed, so as not to specify Counciilor Watson? He has made it clear that not only was he was not the person who originally complained to Tesco, but in fact he has approached both Tesco and the local GAA to try to resolve the problem. As he said himself, he has "no problem" with the GAA club in question.

[Puckoon]

EG
Do you think the people who vehemently protested against children with a small inoffensive insignia on their shirts packing bags are the kind of people who want to join the GAA but are reluctant due to old naming issues?
Parents from unionist backgrounds do have children involved in the GAA as they see it for what it is:- a sporting outlet for kids. The people I think that you are refering to are so far left that they will never want anything to do with the association. Frankly I've already said that if the association needs to change to encourage the sectarian bigots who complained about those kids, then I don't want them. What could those people bring to any club or association which would positively impact their communities with attitudes like that. They are poison, and the fact remains that individuals choose sectarianism.

[whiskeysteve]

As I see it, the GAA may retain its (historic) Nationalist political ethos; or, it may hope to appeal to Unionists in NI. It cannot do both simultaneously.

It would be interesting to see just how many people from the protestant community would decide to play GAA if the GAA assented to measures that this so called 'ethos' be put to bed.

One would suspect that it would garner little more support than it is already receiving. I would like to see just how many borderline cases will play for a GAA club the day Kevin Lynches drop their name, etc. I think the majority would jump to the next 'barrier', rather than get involved.

I can tell you that in the past few years in Coleraine there is a small but marked increase in the number of fellas from either 'side' who will train with both the rugby and gaelic football. I am happy to see this progression. I think it is fair to say that more Protestants are getting involved year after year.

There is no need for any sweeping changes, you either want to play sport or you dont. Those who are looking for political barriers by and large want to find them anyway, they are a lost cause.

[thejuice]

Perhaps while we are all caught up in this latest drama with the school kids in Tesco's its good to read about people doing things in a positive manner for community relations,

Im sure some of you have come across this before but anyway.

http://borderireland.info/discuss/?p=132

http://borderireland.info/discuss/?p=85

http://borderireland.info/discuss/?p=116

[Evil Genius]

EG
Do you think the people who vehemently protested against children with a small inoffensive insignia on their shirts packing bags are the kind of people who want to join the GAA but are reluctant due to old naming issues?

No, my guess is that they are nasty, small-minded bigots. Controversy over naming issues etc only serve to give fuel to their prejudice, I'd say.

Parents from unionist backgrounds do have children involved in the GAA as they see it for what it is:- a sporting outlet for kids.

No doubt. However, such people are so few in numbers as to be unrepresentative of even moderate Unionists, never mind the lunatic fringe.

The people I think that you are refering to are so far left that they will never want anything to do with the association.

Indeed.

Frankly I've already said that if the association needs to change to encourage the sectarian bigots who complained about those kids, then I don't want them. What could those people bring to any club or association which would positively impact their communities with attitudes like that. They are poison, and the fact remains that individuals choose sectarianism.

I don't imagine any reasonable person expects the GAA to change in order to "satisfy" out-and-out bigots etc; I certainly do not.

Rather, what I am arguing that whilst the GAA retains even a moderate Nationalist political ethos, then it is unlikely to appeal to any significant number of (moderate) Unionists - and that's before we even get to "the naming issue" etc.

But as I've said many times before, if the GAA is determined on mixing sport and politics, then it may do so.

Just as I and others like me may draw our own conclusions accordingly.

[Evil Genius]

As I see it, the GAA may retain its (historic) Nationalist political ethos; or, it may hope to appeal to Unionists in NI. It cannot do both simultaneously.

It would be interesting to see just how many people from the protestant community would decide to play GAA if the GAA assented to measures that this so called 'ethos' be put to bed.

One would suspect that it would garner little more support than it is already receiving.

It may not be many, at least initially, for reasons both "good" and "bad". (And by "good" I mean eg lack of contact or outlet for those living in areas with no local GAC, or in a soccer or rugby stronghold etc. By "bad" I mean eg mistrust and a reluctance to let old prejudices go etc)
But I have always believed "a good deed is its own reward". Or as GK Chesterton used to say: "If a thing is worth doing, it's worth doing badly!"  

I would like to see just how many borderline cases will play for a GAA club the day Kevin Lynches drop their name, etc. I think the majority would jump to the next 'barrier', rather than get involved.

It's hard to tell how many Unionists might change their attitudes should eg the likes of Kevin Lynch rename etc. but I would be fairly certain of one thing: so long as Kevin Lynch's do not rename, there's not a Unionist in the Dungiven area who'll have anything to do with them. As would I, if I ever had the fortune/misfortune to live anywhere near there, either. Similarly, if my local soccer club were renamed after eg Billy Wright or Michael Stone, I'd be insisting the IFA threw them out forthwith.

I can tell you that in the past few years in Coleraine there is a small but marked increase in the number of fellas from either 'side' who will train with both the rugby and gaelic football. I am happy to see this progression. I think it is fair to say that more Protestants are getting involved year after year.

Fine. if you and the rest of the GAA are happy with the numbers you attract from the Unionist* community, then carry on. However, if you are not happy, then perhaps you might be better advised to listen to Unionists' reasons why they are reluctant to get involved, rather than telling us what it is we think?

* - I have substituted "Unionist" for your use of "Protestant", since I think it harmful to the debate to traduce it with sectarian terms - though perhaps your introduction of such terminology subconsciously betrays an element of your own feelings on such matters?

There is no need for any sweeping changes, you either want to play sport or you dont. Those who are looking for political barriers by and large want to find them anyway, they are a lost cause.

Fine. As I said earlier: "Your organisation, your choice".

[fred the red]

the gaa can not change the past, only change the future.

extend the arm of friendship to the unionist community, some will stick 2 fingers up, others will shake hands and embrace.

[ardmhachaabu]

As I see it, the GAA may retain its (historic) Nationalist political ethos; or, it may hope to appeal to Unionists in NI. It cannot do both simultaneously.

It would be interesting to see just how many people from the protestant community would decide to play GAA if the GAA assented to measures that this so called 'ethos' be put to bed.

One would suspect that it would garner little more support than it is already receiving. I would like to see just how many borderline cases will play for a GAA club the day Kevin Lynches drop their name, etc. I think the majority would jump to the next 'barrier', rather than get involved.

I can tell you that in the past few years in Coleraine there is a small but marked increase in the number of fellas from either 'side' who will train with both the rugby and gaelic football. I am happy to see this progression. I think it is fair to say that more Protestants are getting involved year after year.

There is no need for any sweeping changes, you either want to play sport or you dont. Those who are looking for political barriers by and large want to find them anyway, they are a lost cause.

Spot on.

[whiskeysteve]

EG, a GK chesterton quote does little to persuade me that 'unionists' will embrace the GAA in any significant number regardless of changes made. I dont think theres a 'unionist' in the Dungiven area who would play GAA for them if the club was named after the Queen, a name change would really do little.

I can tell you that in the past few years in Coleraine there is a small but marked increase in the number of fellas from either 'side' who will train with both the rugby and gaelic football. I am happy to see this progression. I think it is fair to say that more Protestants are getting involved year after year.

Fine. if you and the rest of the GAA are happy with the numbers you attract from the Unionist* community, then carry on. However, if you are not happy, then perhaps you might be better advised to listen to Unionists' reasons why they are reluctant to get involved, rather than telling us what it is we think?

* - I have substituted "Unionist" for your use of "Protestant", since I think it harmful to the debate to traduce it with sectarian terms - though perhaps your introduction of such terminology subconsciously betrays an element of your own feelings on such matters?

I think I might explain this one. I used the word 'Protestant' as the individuals involved (friends of mine) arent particularly politically motivated. A bit like myself and, oh, 95% of the GAA and rugby players in Coleraine (I use that figure as I cant be sure, but I am familiar with the players and have yet to encounter politics). Though they do come from 'unionist communities'. Maybe I should have used this more satisfactory terminology for your benefit. I suppose the point of this is that the majority of young people dont really have strong political ideals in most parts of this country. Or at least in my part of the world anyway. i.e. their unionism doesnt manifest itself in their feelings towards a sporting organisation with a few objectionable names in places they have never been to, or will likely encounter. This might boggle the mind but fitness and camaraderie are held above politics!!

Changing names will have a very marginal impact on 'numbers'. It will only matter to 'unionists' who subsequently wouldn't play anyway, by and large. Do you have any disagreement on this specific point?

P.S. (as I notice you like to leave these a lot)

I find it interesting that you feel the need to suggest, however subtly, that I may have some form of a sectarian mindset: "though perhaps your introduction of such terminology subconsciously betrays an element of your own feelings on such matters?". I also enjoy the way you have perceived this, yet I may not have been able to grasp this myself, it being so subconscious and all. Perhaps your introduction of such terminology betrays an element of your own arrogance?

[Puckoon]

EG, a GK chesterton quote does little to persuade me that 'unionists' will embrace the GAA in any significant number regardless of changes made. I dont think theres a 'unionist' in the Dungiven area who would play GAA for them if the club was named after the Queen, a name change would really do little.

I can tell you that in the past few years in Coleraine there is a small but marked increase in the number of fellas from either 'side' who will train with both the rugby and gaelic football. I am happy to see this progression. I think it is fair to say that more Protestants are getting involved year after year.

Fine. if you and the rest of the GAA are happy with the numbers you attract from the Unionist* community, then carry on. However, if you are not happy, then perhaps you might be better advised to listen to Unionists' reasons why they are reluctant to get involved, rather than telling us what it is we think?

* - I have substituted "Unionist" for your use of "Protestant", since I think it harmful to the debate to traduce it with sectarian terms - though perhaps your introduction of such terminology subconsciously betrays an element of your own feelings on such matters?

I think I might explain this one. I used the word 'Protestant' as the individuals involved (friends of mine) arent particularly politically motivated. A bit like myself and, oh, 95% of the GAA and rugby players in Coleraine (I use that figure as I cant be sure, but I am familiar with the players and have yet to encounter politics). Though they do come from 'unionist communities'. Maybe I should have used this more satisfactory terminology for your benefit. I suppose the point of this is that the majority of young people dont really have strong political ideals in most parts of this country. Or at least in my part of the world anyway. i.e. their unionism doesnt manifest itself in their feelings towards a sporting organisation with a few objectionable names in places they have never been to, or will likely encounter. This might boggle the mind but fitness and camaraderie are held above politics!!

Changing names will have a very marginal impact on 'numbers'. It will only matter to 'unionists' who subsequently wouldn't play anyway, by and large. Do you have any disagreement on this specific point?

P.S. (as I notice you like to leave these a lot)

I find it interesting that you feel the need to suggest, however subtly, that I may have some form of a sectarian mindset: "though perhaps your introduction of such terminology subconsciously betrays an element of your own feelings on such matters?". I also enjoy the way you have perceived this, yet I may not have been able to grasp this myself, it being so subconscious and all. Perhaps your introduction of such terminology betrays an element of your own arrogance?

I worry that what it betrays is an inbuilt suspicion of anyone from "this" side, who claims not to be politically charged, as many from "the other" side couldnt fathom not being.

I wish I had better words.

[MW]

Having been involved with the GAA in the U.K. and here in Oz, I KNOW there are players with absolutely no Irish heritage in them, eg. the captain of the Lancs All-Britain U-21 Championship winning team, 1988 (part Chinese, part Afro-Carribean, part English).  

The Antrim incident is yet again demonstrative of the cornered rat mentality that makes its ugly presence felt when Irish culture seeks nothing more than parity in the six north-east counties of the nation.  Some on the board lambast me for (and I paraphrase) "holding on to memories of the past"; well, whaddya know?  Perhaps those "memories" are still realities.  

Well, we know how unreliable your "memories [sic] of the past" can be don't we now?

[armaghniac]

A lot of clubs are doing things for the Lá na gClub. Games between townlands, housing estates and the like. This can be a good opportunity to get the "new" estate involved, or maybe to get people from the end of the parish where the GAA is not the major sport.

[Lar Naparka]

As I see it, the GAA may retain its (historic) Nationalist political ethos; or, it may hope to appeal to Unionists in NI. It cannot do both simultaneously.

Your organisation, your choice.

P.S. Can the title of this thread be changed, so as not to specify Counciilor Watson? He has made it clear that not only was he was not the person who originally complained to Tesco, but in fact he has approached both Tesco and the local GAA to try to resolve the problem. As he said himself, he has "no problem" with the GAA club in question.

I have no problem whatever in changing the topic header.
At the time of posting, it was widely reported that Councillor Watson had been to the forefront of those objecting to the kids wearing of GAA jerseys at the store.
I posted the topic late on Wednesday night; more than three full days after the incident and in the interim there had been no statement of any sort from Mr Watson. I went with the general flow and assumed he had been one of the objectors. (In fact, it appears that his rebuttal of the charges against him was issued on Wednesday afternoon but I did not hear of this until the following morning.)
It seems he was merely passing on complaints on behalf of his constituents and as EG reports, he has no problem with the club himself.
I'm afraid I haven't succeeded in re-wording the topic header to my own satisfaction but I hope it suffices to adequately describe the subject matter in question.
The number of characters that can be fitted into the Subject field is one constraint and the fact that I'm rushing things so I can make it to my local for a couple of pints before closing time is another.