Mayo v New York, Gaelic Park 10.05.09

[IolarCoisCuain]

...Hardly anyone had ever seen him kick a ball.  .... someone who has hardly kicked a ball in relative terms.   ... I dont want to sound too hard on them.

You're being a bit harsh on McGarrity there Abbeysider. Do you think you could be a bit more specific? Phrases like "hardly anyones" and "relative terms" are middling broad churches, don't you think?

How many people do you think need to have seen Ronan McGarrity kick a ball? What would be the quorum there? To what are you terms relevant?

I know you don't want to sound too hard on McGarrity or Gardiner but you do sound very hard indeed. You leaped down the throat of someone who suggested that Alan Dillon wasn't that fast here a few weeks ago. If you're going to take a pop at McGarrity then it'd might be fairer to the two men if you went easy on the "hardly anyones" and "relative terms" and were more specific in criticisms.

If that's possible in the first place of course. Both McGarrity and Gardiner have been playing for Mayo for ten years between them and reading this board nobody seems to know if they're tw stalwarts or two bums. There's no reasonable analysis. It's always hero or gobsh1te with Mayo, and never any in-between.

[mannix]

all that can really be said is that they try very hard, they would not be there otherwise.

[moysider]

There s a lot of mythology out there about McGarrity. Some of this was intentionally or otherwise started by Maughan back in 04 and the press loved it and ran with it. Basically it revolved around McHale having a hunch this basketballer might have something to contribute without ever having played before. Of course it was all spin. Maughan might not have been aware of McGarrity but McHale should have known better or maybe he just enjoyed soaking up the attention of a fawning press for his scouting shrewdness. To be honest I remember a good few people being being pissed off and having a good laugh at the same time about it all. It was all bullshit. McGarrity played loads of underage football at club and school. He was an obvious talent. Could catch a ball and his ability to kick long was way ahead of most. But he preferred basketball.  He was involved in Mayo u16 (probably not a happy experience). He did nt play minor ( was invited to) and was committed to basketball scholarship in the States at that stage.
Would he have been picked for minor? Dunno but he could have been midfield with Gavin Duffy on the 99 team. He played Midfield with Duffy with the club winning a club minor title. Easily good enough. How much those missed years in the States affected his development is debatable of course and you d have to suspect quite a bit but to say few saw him ever kick a ball has no relevence to his current abilities. If more people attended underage club and colleges games then more would have seew him but not sure what difference that would have made. People will just have to take the judgement of those that did see him.

( Harte was never picked for minors either although obviously one of the better midfielders around at the time. The North selector picked Edmund Barrett instead)

In Spring 04 when I heard Ronan was coming home I remember telling people ( who mostly never heard of him) that he would be involved and he was. I also backed Mayo early that Spring to win Connacht at generous odds on the back of McGarrity being there. I was nt the only one. Somebody who knows him better than I even backed them to win the AI early that year. Heavily. But as he was 12 grand up after Connacht he was well ahead. Ronan has his failings but there s not a lot wrong with him a bit of coaching would nt sort out. Picking off the ground and silly stuff like that is intolerable and is pure concentration. His late appearance last year v Tyrone had all the hallmarks of a player who had lost all focus with frustration and probably would have been better off not being introduced in that frame of mind. But its easy being wise after the event.

[AbbeySider]

You're being a bit harsh on McGarrity there Abbeysider. Do you think you could be a bit more specific? Phrases like "hardly anyones" and "relative terms" are middling broad churches, don't you think?

How many people do you think need to have seen Ronan McGarrity kick a ball? What would be the quorum there? To what are you terms relevant?

I know you don't want to sound too hard on McGarrity or Gardiner but you do sound very hard indeed. You leaped down the throat of someone who suggested that Alan Dillon wasn't that fast here a few weeks ago. If you're going to take a pop at McGarrity then it'd might be fairer to the two men if you went easy on the "hardly anyones" and "relative terms" and were more specific in criticisms.

If that's possible in the first place of course. Both McGarrity and Gardiner have been playing for Mayo for ten years between them and reading this board nobody seems to know if they're tw stalwarts or two bums. There's no reasonable analysis. It's always hero or gobsh1te with Mayo, and never any in-between.

Point taken, they were general terms but I was making the point that he simply hadnt played that much football. I actually removed the post.
It was a bit cutting, and these are amateurs after all! Wrong way to approach making a case for Harte by lambasting McG!

[IolarCoisCuain]

Fair play to you Abbeysider.

Moysider has a point about Maughan doing that bit of spinning but McGarrity's perception has always suffered from an interview he did that the Irish Times published the day before the All-Ireland in 2004. I remember being out at the  Sevens in Kilmacud - looking for a ticket, naturally - that particular Saturday and how annoyed some people were with some of the things he said, about preferring the basketball and all this crack.

It was naive of McGarrity to talk as openly as he did but it's very unlucky on the man - he's a footballer, not a PR man, after all. If things had gone differently the next day no-one would think anything of it but they didn't and so the basketball is always being drawn down. Kerrymen don't seem that bothered about Donaghy shooting hoops but the celtic cross absolves many sins I guess.

I hope none of them get smashed up in New York. The New York thing is looking like a drag now the recession is here, and isn't going away. Then again, New York is likely to be fielding stronger teams in coming years than they have been during the boom. Probably too early for them this weekend. Our fellas coming back in one piece is what counts as a victory here I reckon.

[Foreverhopeful]

McGarrity lacks a bit of muscle to be be one of the greats. He is a very good player but if he wanted to be in the mcdermott, tohill, o'se bracket he would have to bulk up. Obviously his basketball career meant he had to stay in this shape.
In fairness to mchale in 04, McGarrity was out of football for awhile so he deserves some credit for getting him into the county scene straight off.

[moysider]

McGarrity lacks a bit of muscle to be be one of the greats. He is a very good player but if he wanted to be in the mcdermott, tohill, o'se bracket he would have to bulk up. Obviously his basketball career meant he had to stay in this shape.
In fairness to mchale in 04, McGarrity was out of football for awhile so he deserves some credit for getting him into the county scene straight off.

Not really. The dogs in the street knew he would come straight in. It was a no brainer.

[Foreverhopeful]

how you figure that out, credit where credit is due, mcgarrity was put into senior panel without having to prove himself at senior club level first. There not many who were giving that treatment - where they had left the country to play another sport for a few years (3 i think) and then return and be selected immediately for inter-county football. In fairness he hadnt played minor/senior prior to this so it's not as if he was well known in the gaa circles  for people to be calling for his inclusion upon his return -  so it was huge call by mchale to get him onto that panel from the off.

Looking back now it's easy to say that he would have made it anyway once he got back into the swing of things with the club but who know's.

[Family guy]

Wats the spread at home in this game does any1 know???

[stephenite]

how you figure that out, credit where credit is due, mcgarrity was put into senior panel without having to prove himself at senior club level first. There not many who were giving that treatment - where they had left the country to play another sport for a few years (3 i think) and then return and be selected immediately for inter-county football. In fairness he hadnt played minor/senior prior to this so it's not as if he was well known in the gaa circles  for people to be calling for his inclusion upon his return -  so it was huge call by mchale to get him onto that panel from the off.

Looking back now it's easy to say that he would have made it anyway once he got back into the swing of things with the club but who know's.

There was ample time for him to prove himself at training matches once he was bought in -and even the FBD and league are there for that purpose. Brian Ruane from Ballina played a good few league games at midfield and elsewhere but saw little to no game time in the summer. McGarrity was thrown in at the deep end and swam - not a great mystery.
There aren't that many players that have produced good enough performances at club level that didn't get a shot somewhere along the line.

[muscles magoo]

[/quote]

There aren't that many players that have produced good enough performances at club level that didn't get a shot somewhere along the line.
[/quote]

That's true at senior level Stephenite but I've seen a few intermediate/junior players who have excelled at club level yet never got a chance to prove themselves at inter-county.

[stephenite]

There aren't that many players that have produced good enough performances at club level that didn't get a shot somewhere along the line.
[/quote]

That's true at senior level Stephenite but I've seen a few intermediate/junior players who have excelled at club level yet never got a chance to prove themselves at inter-county.
[/quote]

Who?

[IolarCoisCuain]

how you figure that out, credit where credit is due, mcgarrity was put into senior panel without having to prove himself at senior club level first.

Many's the man wore the jersey without "proving himself at senior club level first." The players from intermediate and junior clubs spring to mind.

Lots of people don't like McGarrity. Fair enough. Everyone's entitled to his or her opinion. But might help the discussion if people backed up their opinions with evidence and were consistent in their arguments. I mean, you don't want the New Yorkers reading this board and laughing at us, do you? 

[kevmy]

On the McGarrity thing. He has some great attributes and he had some good years and I for one hope he gets back to top form again.

I mean for all his ability you can't tell me that spending 3 years playing basketball when other lads were playing football didn't hold back his development (I've no problem with him going to play basketball btw everyone is entitled to do what they want). But there is a different type of training and muscle building needed in basketball than football along with obvious skills like kickpassing. Now McGarrity played very well the first couple of years and would probably have kicked on and bulked up a bit more if he hadn't got ill and it showed great determination and loyalty to the cause to come back from that. As far as I can see it on form he is a fantastic fielder of the ball, is good at hoovering up ball and giving handpasses to set up moves as well the ability to get long range scores. But his kick passing is erratic at best and some of point taking can be wild. I also think he hasn't hit top form this year so far - that not a criticism of Ronan per se as every player loses form at some point - just a statement of opinion.

[stephenite]

Liam McHale was pretty much a full time basketballer in his younger days playing basketball before football, all winter/spring in Mayo and over to the States for the summer if Mayo had an early exit - he missed a Connacht Club match in 1985 to play hoops. Didn't hold back his development.