Have Galway been found out?

[screenexile]

Alan Brogan... Bernard Brogan... NOTHING ELSE!

Galway, Derry, Tyrone, Monaghan, Cork, Kerry... are all ahead of the Dubs in the forward stakes! Dublin will suffer this year and it will take a while for Gilroy to bed in. The league hasn't been great to them!

[belleaqua]

Their forwards are second only to Kerry's

Fiachra Breathnach, Matthew Clancy, Paul Conroy. Honest, hard working players but they are not going to rack up the scores against the top teams simple as that.

I honestly don't think the forwards are the problem. We nearly always rack up big scores. I still think we have better forwards than the vast majority of other counties. Paul Conroy is a fine young player who has been scoring regularly in the league. Nicky Joyce is hugely talented although a bit injury prone and a bit tempremental. Cormac Bane an enigma who can drift out of games but who can kick points from anywhere when given the service. Sean Armstrong maybe hasn't kicked on from his U-21 days due to injuries but again is capable if he can stay fit long enough. Fair enough guys like Breathnach and Mattie are more your honest grafters but even Mattie has been known to have an eye for goal at times. Throw in Meehan and PJ and there is more than enough there to work with. It may be that the others are now content to let Meehan do all the scoring but they are more than capable of kicking their own scores but right now it's all going through Meehan whether by accident or design.

The problem is if you don't win enough possession in the middle third of the field you are going to concede too many scores as no defence can hold out indefinitely when the opposition are winning 75% of the kickouts. The backs actually did remarkably well to hold Kerry the last day to a one point lead at half-time after they caught nearly every single kickout but you can't get away with it for 70 minutes.

It really is as simple as that. Our backs get too much criticism because of our lack of ball winning ability at midfield midfield and cannot be expected to ship such punishment. Look at how well they held out against Kerry the last day in the first half. Lost 13 out of 16 kickouts yet only conceded 5 points?

Our forwards as a unit are in top 4 in the country. Meehan is I think Cooper apart the most coveted forward in Ireland but he has support if possession is adequate.

Galway will not win an All Ireland this year IMO because of a lack of a midfield. I believe we COULD beat anyone bar Cork and Kerry. Does that mean Cork and Kerry are better than Tyrone etc? No, it means we are better suited to beating them. Tyrone are well capable of beating Kerry etc. I think its stupid that people get hung up on lists of top teams in the country and that means they'l beat the others.

Take this as an example. We could win Connaught play a qualifier in the quarters, plat Dublin in a semi, and beat Tyrone in a final. Purely hypothetical. My point is it all depends on the draw

[cornafean]

We could ... beat Tyrone in a final. Purely hypothetical.

Hypothetical indeed 

[nrico2006]

Well, based on the fact that they've already beaten Tyrone in this year's league campaign and have comfortably reached the final unbeaten.

Tyrone are the best team in the game at the minute, the fact that they are All Ireland Champions verifies this.  Kerry have been the best team in the league this year, but how reflective is the league come championship?

[illdecide]

TBH Derry haven't the goolies for it, neither have Mayo or Dublin...There are a few counties about there with unbelievable talent but when it's put up to them in a championship match the simply haven't the goolies for it...Galway, Kerry and Tyrone are ahead of the rest...

Ulster - Tyrone
Leinster - Kildare
Munster - Kerry in a 2 horse race with Cork
Connaught - Galway in a 2 horse race with Mayo

On what basis are you tipping Kildare to win Leinster and how can you claim Galway are ahead of the rest...

If we are talking forward lines then Dublin are easily one of the top forward lines going...

On the basis of playing big championship games over the last decade, it is proven over the last 10 years or so that when it has been put up to Dublin the simply cave in and don't have the bottle for it. When they play a team in Croke park who fear them Dublin look great rattling up big scores but when a team stands up to them...now thats a different story...Don't worry your not on your own there are several counties like Dublin who have great talent but simply don't have the balls for it

[DUBSFORSAM1]

TBH Derry haven't the goolies for it, neither have Mayo or Dublin...There are a few counties about there with unbelievable talent but when it's put up to them in a championship match the simply haven't the goolies for it...Galway, Kerry and Tyrone are ahead of the rest...

Ulster - Tyrone
Leinster - Kildare
Munster - Kerry in a 2 horse race with Cork
Connaught - Galway in a 2 horse race with Mayo

On what basis are you tipping Kildare to win Leinster and how can you claim Galway are ahead of the rest...

If we are talking forward lines then Dublin are easily one of the top forward lines going...

On the basis of playing big championship games over the last decade, it is proven over the last 10 years or so that when it has been put up to Dublin the simply cave in and don't have the bottle for it. When they play a team in Croke park who fear them Dublin look great rattling up big scores but when a team stands up to them...now thats a different story...Don't worry your not on your own there are several counties like Dublin who have great talent but simply don't have the balls for it

So Dublin struggled against Tyrone/Kerry and Armagh in 02/03 with the only arberation being Mayo in 06....How is losing to one of the top 2 teams in the country every year bottling it and bar Tyrone last year and Kerry in 04 we have put it up in every game

[DUBSFORSAM1]

Alan Brogan... Bernard Brogan... NOTHING ELSE!

Galway, Derry, Tyrone, Monaghan, Cork, Kerry... are all ahead of the Dubs in the forward stakes! Dublin will suffer this year and it will take a while for Gilroy to bed in. The league hasn't been great to them!

Top scorers in the league without the Brogans for most of it.....high scorers in every championship including against the likes of Tyrone/Kerry/Derry etc

[illdecide]

Yes, thats what i'm trying to tell you. Dublin have some talented players and should have won All-Irelands in the last decade but when your playing one of the top teams and your matching them for 45-50 mins then when the stakes are raised and it is put up to Dublin you don't have the belly for it and cave in...The stats don't lie and i'm not getting any satisfaction from saying this but i believe it to be true...

[DUBSFORSAM1]

Yes, thats what i'm trying to tell you. Dublin have some talented players and should have won All-Irelands in the last decade but when your playing one of the top teams and your matching them for 45-50 mins then when the stakes are raised and it is put up to Dublin you don't have the belly for it and cave in...The stats don't lie and i'm not getting any satisfaction from saying this but i believe it to be true...

Yes but my question is why you rated Kildare to win Leinster and Galway as being ahead of Dublin...as for the caving in did Kerry cave in every year they lost or did Tyrone cave in every year they lose?? Some teams just aren't good enough and its not a case of caving in its more a case of not having as good a set of players..

[Zulu]

Yes, thats what i'm trying to tell you. Dublin have some talented players and should have won All-Irelands in the last decade but when your playing one of the top teams and your matching them for 45-50 mins then when the stakes are raised and it is put up to Dublin you don't have the belly for it and cave in...The stats don't lie and i'm not getting any satisfaction from saying this but i believe it to be true...

Yes but my question is why you rated Kildare to win Leinster and Galway as being ahead of Dublin...as for the caving in did Kerry cave in every year they lost or did Tyrone cave in every year they lose?? Some teams just aren't good enough and its not a case of caving in its more a case of not having as good a set of players..

Exactly, when you cut through all the bullshit (and we all engage in it) about tactics, training, etc. the fact is 90% of the time the better team will win, and when teams of similar standards meet, a bit of luck, a big performance from one or two players, or taking your chances will decide the game. I can't remember the last time the AI wasn't won by a team most would regard in the top 3 or 4 in Ireland.

[lynchbhoy]

im the 'big three' are now Kery Cork and Tyrone
Next Dublin , Monaghan, Derry
After that its armagh, kildare, galway, mayo, donegal (great talent) ....
in my reckoning anyhow

I'd say that although Dublin are having huge difficulty in finding their feet, they have the talent to be in the next level - unless they struggle to get that talent transferred to the field of play (a la Derry over the past 10 years) then they will simply put up a decent show but not actually win.
Monaghan can beat anyone on a given day, but with such a small panel will struggle if they hit any injuries.

Galways havent been 'found out' as such as the galweigans didnt tout them as some as the media did
galway have v good forward talent (imo meehan best in the country - way better then cooper), but as the westie lads mentioned are deficient in midfield and maybe in def...)

[INDIANA]

Alan Brogan... Bernard Brogan... NOTHING ELSE!

Galway, Derry, Tyrone, Monaghan, Cork, Kerry... are all ahead of the Dubs in the forward stakes! Dublin will suffer this year and it will take a while for Gilroy to bed in. The league hasn't been great to them!

LaughableI've heavily critical of Dublin but scoring isn't a problem -keeping them out is. A resume Screen


Derry have the 2 bradleys and ahem ,ahem ahem ............................................ok we'll leave that one.

Monaghan have freeman and woods and  ahem..............................................ok we'll leave that one as well.

Galway have Michael Meehan and Joyce and ahem............................................. we'll leave that one as well.

Cork is all potential at the moment . The only proven scorers they have under championship conditions are. donncha o connor and goulding. Kerrigan has yet to play championship football , Masters doesn't start regularly anymore. Hayes has never been a regular. Colm O Neill and Co -too early to say.

Armagh have clarke-mc donnell and no-one else.

So it looks to me Dublin have the same as everyone else of the 2nd tier in terms of marquee forwards
By the way don't attempt to give us the Joe Brolly analysis where Derry are all-ireland contenders every year and have all these brillaint players that no-one has heard of and are continually shown up in the championship as not being good enough. Without the Bradleys you have nothing up front. End of story.

Galway have nicky joyce and armstrong - but too wishy washy at championship level to be considered marquee forwards

Dublin have connolly and a few others in the same boat

Monaghan have hanratty-

Cork have masters/hayes etc in that boat as well

Derry- I'd struggle to think of even another derry forward in the above boat. Muldoon and Doherty are essentially midfielders. Paul Murphy maybe at 11 has a decent left peg.

Kerry and tyrone is a no brainer - even a geriatic could figure that one out. They have 6-7 reliable scoring forwards each and thats why they win all-irelands.

[lynchbhoy]

to be fair Indiana
I think Kerry have 4 as have tyrone
coper, donaghy, walsh and declan osullivan - would only count sheehan from frees not from play
tyrone have
Stephen oneill, mccullagh, tommy mcguigan and
cavanagh (more of a forward running third midf imo - where he seems to get his scores and not as a FF)

I dont think that any team can have too many out and out scoring forwards in a balanced side (as mad as that sounds) you need work horses to win breaking ball (eg dooher and galvin - who can both score but its not their bread and butter role) and create scores/supply to ff line - that does the damage

[OirthearMhaigheo]

to be fair Indiana
I think Kerry have 4 as have tyrone
coper, donaghy, walsh and declan osullivan - would only count sheehan from frees not from play
tyrone have
Stephen oneill, mccullagh, tommy mcguigan and
cavanagh (more of a forward running third midf imo - where he seems to get his scores and not as a FF)

I dont think that any team can have too many out and out scoring forwards in a balanced side (as mad as that sounds) you need work horses to win breaking ball (eg dooher and galvin - who can both score but its not their bread and butter role) and create scores/supply to ff line - that does the damage

Tommy McGuigan? I assume you mean Brian and only when he was at his best. He was average last year and Tommy is average full stop, he had a shocker against Mayo in last years qualifier and in no way could be classed a top forward. IMO Tyrone have Kavanagh and O'Neill as marquee forwards, McCullogh is nowhere near the Cooper/Meehan level. Tyrone's secret is spreading the scores and getting the likes of Dooher, McGinley, Davy Harte and even Gormley, from time to time, to chip in.

[INDIANA]

The difference between kerry/tyrone and the rest is simple- they have half forwards who can score regularly.

Derry/Dublin/Monaghan/Armagh/Cork /Galway don't. They have guys who can do it on an inconsistent basis. But not with any regularity-hence the reason they don't win all-irelands.