The Bould Francie

[Mid Down Gael]

He was very average in my opinion and was protected by McGeeney and the blanket defence of armaghs half forwards. He was never going to be exposed being so well protected and he played on a cross team that were always practically unbeatable.

[HalfFitHalfBack]

You can't honestly say McNulty showed Canavan up any time they crossed paths?

I can't think of any game where McNulty marked Canavan and did not have the measure of him.

Watching Peter Canavan and Kieran McKeever from Derry going head to head was a good honest battle.

That's funny. Careful Archie, you're starting to get very Mills & Boon-esque on us.

[HalfFitHalfBack]

He was very average in my opinion and was protected by McGeeney and the blanket defence of armaghs half forwards. He was never going to be exposed being so well protected and he played on a cross team that were always practically unbeatable.

It depends what you consider average. For example, I would rate all Down players over the past 10 years as average. That being average, Francie is definitely well above average.

[rrhf]

When people stop comparing Enda Mc Nulty, Francie Bellew and Ciaran Mc keever as footballers to Peter Canavan, i will return to the board.  In the meantime, I feel the board has lost all reason and sense so Im quitting.      

[SidelineKick]

When people stop comparing Enda Mc Nulty, Francie Bellew and Ciaran Mc keever as footballers to Peter Canavan, i will return to the board.  In the meantime, I feel the board has lost all reason and sense so Im quitting.      

Yes because its like for like. Compare their scoring averages each year 

[HalfFitHalfBack]

When people stop comparing Enda Mc Nulty, Francie Bellew and Ciaran Mc keever as footballers to Peter Canavan, i will return to the board.  In the meantime, I feel the board has lost all reason and sense so Im quitting.      

Comparing Peter Canavan to Enda Mc Nulty, Francie Bellew and Ciaran Mc keever is crazy... Canavan isn't fit to lace their boots! 

While you're away, spend your time wisely by enrolling in an English comprehension course... and remember do not take life too seriously. You will never get out of it alive

BTW, how will you know when to return? 

[mackers]

When people stop comparing Enda Mc Nulty, Francie Bellew and Ciaran Mc keever as footballers to Peter Canavan, i will return to the board.  In the meantime, I feel the board has lost all reason and sense so Im quitting.      

Who's comparing them? Someone simply said that McNulty always marked Canavan well which is FACT. You could count the number of points from play that Canavan got off McNulty on one hand which is some record when you think of the quality of Canavan. No Armagh supporter would say that Bellew or McNulty were as "skilful" as Canavan but can you not see that good defending is a skill in itself? Full back has been a problem position for this Tyrone team from 03 when Harte had to take Cormac (RIP) there to plug a gap, all these Tyronies looking down their noses at Francie should bear in mind that they would have had more success with Francie at number 3. For a start, Harte wouldn't have had to pull Gormley back from CHB to plug the gap, same with Cormac.

[mackers]

Francie may have been a great No 3 for Cross and Armagh, but I wouldn't have him in the Tyrone team for a reason. His lack of pace and ability to play football would get him caught out with the game plan Tyrone use. Tyrone need 6 players who are comfortable on the ball, can take it up the field, set up an attack etc. This was the main reason that Gavin Devlin was caught out ever so badly in 2005 in the drawn quarter final v Dublin. Tyrone have defenders who can defend well individually, defend well as a team, as well as being able to play the attacking football system that has brought them so much success over the Mickey Harte era. Also the dynamics of the forward lines has changed also. Now there is no old school full-forwards like the Bomber, where teams can pump the long ball in and players like Francie will thrive on. The modern players now bring much more to the game than this, and often there is smaller more skillful players in full forward and able to come out the field, win their ball, dictate the play etc so the days of the classic big men full-forward/full-back battles are long gone, and that's the system that Francie cant play successfully in. Mattie Forde last year was a prime example of this.

Yeah Chris Lawn used to bomb forward at every opportunity. Look for years, including 2002 (Spillane) Francie was picked out as a weak link in the Armagh defence and aside from O'Neill (which was an exceptional performance) Francie was never exposed in his prime. The last 10 mins of the Wexford game has probably signalled the end of Francie's inter-county career. If Tyrone's "system" is so brilliant then why was Cormac McAnallen pulled back to plug the gap at FB? Where would Gormley play for Tyrone without FB being a problem position.
To read your analysis you'd swear that Francie was exposed repeatedly and that's just not right.

[Stevie Nicks]

Ulster Final 2003 is a prime example of Tyrone needing a Francie when an average Down team looked like scoring a goal everytime a high ball went in and could well have beat Tyrone. This highlighted the fact to Mickey and he then moved Cormac back when was key to the ai win.

[DuffleKing]

Maybe I got carried away a bit. McNulty seemed to up it more in the physical stakes when playing Canavan, whereas McKeever didn't. McKeever knew he could get the better than Canavan in footballing terms, likewise that Canavan knew he could get the better of him.

That's nonsense. McKeever fared well in their encounters and probably broke even or maybe a bit better overall. McNulty dominated Canavan almost every time - by whatever means.

[DuffleKing]

When people stop comparing Enda Mc Nulty, Francie Bellew and Ciaran Mc keever as footballers to Peter Canavan, i will return to the board.  In the meantime, I feel the board has lost all reason and sense so Im quitting.      

From what i've read from you, the board will be a better place. people like you, who cannot appreciate defending as a skillful equal to attacking play, are becoming more and more common.

[Glensman]

I would take:

1. a full length diving block over a great point;

2. dispossessing a player when he is soloing over a great turn; or

3. a good shoulder over a good dummy:

any day of the week.


People will have differing opinions on what is most beautiful within our games (that arguably is the beauty of the games).

Give me a good centre half back over a good centre half forward any day. Give me both and you're going places.

[mackers]

I would take:

1. a full length diving block over a great point;

2. dispossessing a player when he is soloing over a great turn; or

3. a good shoulder over a good dummy:

any day of the week.


People will have differing opinions on what is most beautiful within our games (that arguably is the beauty of the games).

Give me a good centre half back over a good centre half forward any day. Give me both and you're going places.

Exactly!!
What's the point in having a full back that can solo the ball 50 yards with men hanging off him if he sh*ts himself if a high ball comes into the square. As an Armagh supporter I was disappointed when Francie made the mistake for Forde's goal last year, but one thing's for sure, Francie's got us out of more holes than he's got us into, he owes us absolutely nothing.

[rrhf]

Duffleking - there must be some confusion lad.  i have always been a fan of Francie and would have him on my team, Id always prefer a breathtaking block like Conor Gormleys over a point from a corner forward, so go back and read the posts for yourslef son. 

[under the bar]

Who's comparing them? Someone simply said that McNulty always marked Canavan well which is FACT. You could count the number of points from play that Canavan got off McNulty on one hand which is some record when you think of the quality of Canavan.

Points from play are only one aspect.  You also have to consider fouls drawn in scoring positions and key passes which resulted in scores.   Preventing a player scoring from play means little if you foul him in the process and the other team score from the free.

I don't know the stats myself but you'd have to take all 3 into consideration.