Armagh vs. Cork Sunday, April 12

[corn02]

If in county Armagh, if we have to play a 20 stone, well past his best, cetre half back at centre half forward, then I don't know!

An All Ireland winner for your county vy the way so show a bit of respect.

Did  not see the game but heard the same that was said on here. Heraty's kickouts poor, back line bar McKeever skint to a man, Vernon only man who looked interested.

Just as our good win in Kildare did not make us the ones to beat again, this one should not rule us out either. It is our Navan from last year.

Ok...............
Aidan has been a good player for us, in the past. I was pointing out that his fitness is not there at the moment.
I have respect for all players who are willing to give it a try, but I no longer think he is worth his place in team, whether he won 0 or 10 AI titles.

And that is a belief you are very much entitled too, I was not saying you should not be thinking that was just no need for the 20 stone comment.

[Benny Barnaveld]

Perhaps my wording was poorly chosen and meant in jest, I did not mean to suggest that he actually weighs 20 stone.
Nor did I intend to offend. So Aidan if you are reading, I apologise!

[corn02]

Perhaps my wording was poorly chosen and meant in jest, I did not mean to suggest that he actually weighs 20 stone.
Nor did I intend to offend. So Aidan if you are reading, I apologise!

Apology accepted....I mean I'm sure he accepts.

[mackers]

Didn't get to the match yesterday and only just finished watching the TG4 coverage. As corn has said a bit of perspective is needed here. First of all, Cork are a serious team with a big chance later in the year, they have a lot of talent coming through. Secondly, we had several players who were WAY off the pace who will not be near the starting 15 come the 31st May. Lavery, McClelland and (sorry corn) AOR simply can't play against Tyrone. We only thought we got a cuffing yesterday, if we go out without pace and mobility against Tyrone.
Paul Hearty was back to his worst and McEvoy has to start in nets, when your midfield are getting stuffed you need accurate kickouts and that never was Hearty's strong point.
Why did McDonnell not put C McK onto Kerrigan who was doing most of the damage?
MOR was badly missed as Vernon fought a lone battle in the midfield sector and only for Charlie it would've been worse.

[corn02]

I still think Aidan will start at six against Tyrone.

Don't apologise Mackers, everyone entitled to their opinion.

Obviously I would like to see McEvoy in but if Hearty started yesterday I would imagine he will be in goals on May 31.

[marym]

Today Irish Examiner says CIT Victory in Sigerson is beginning to show fruits. 4 of that team played yesterday with a few more on the Cork under 21 team as well. That CIT team got up at 6 in the morning to be at training for 7 and at lectures for 9. They have state of the art facilities out there.

[Benny Barnaveld]

Anyways
Now that the league is over, how many positives do we reckon we can take on into the Tyrone game?

[TacadoirArdMhacha]

Secondly, we had several players who were WAY off the pace who will not be near the starting 15 come the 31st May. Lavery, McClelland and (sorry corn) AOR simply can't play against Tyrone. We only thought we got a cuffing yesterday, if we go out without pace and mobility against Tyrone.
Paul Hearty was back to his worst and McEvoy has to start in nets, when your midfield are getting stuffed you need accurate kickouts and that never was Hearty's strong point.

I'd agree with pretty much all of that mackers. Speed and mobility are key but apart from that we need to be able to trust our players to deal with their positions i.e. mark their men as defenders and use possession creatively in the forwards. This nonsense of the likes of Ciaran McKeever hvaing the sweep in front of perceived weak links will leave us completely hamstrung. I really want us to play with 6 forwards as if we sacrifice an attacking player completely, I simply don't think we'll get enough scores to win big championship matches.

One player I'm in two minds over in terms of starting in the championship is Tony Kernan. I'm not sure he contributes enough from player (though he got one fine score yesterday) but since th loss of Oisin we lack a long range free taking which is where TK excells. If he is able to score 2 or 3 long range frees or 45s per match, which would be outside Stevie's range then it may be worth starting him. Also interesting that Finn Mo didn't start yesterday. Was he injured? If not that's probably the first time he's been dropped by McDonnell.

I'd leaning towards a team somewhere along these lines;

McEvoy

A Mallon
B Donaghy
B Shannon

JP Donnelly / Paul Duffy (not a player McDonnell fanices it seems though)
C McKeever
F Moriarty

C Vernon
K Toner

M O'Rourke
S McDonnell
A Kernan

B Mallon
R Clarke
K O'Rourke

Brian Mallon to play slightly withdrawn from the full forwards and Marty O'Rourke to do with job he does best around the middle area i.e. winning possession. Alternatively (and possibly preferably) take Duffy / Donnelly out, put Aaron back to half back and start Tony Kernan. Its a real pity Henderson hasn't been able to kick out since the Wexford match but for whatever reason he doesn't seem to have been given enough game time in the second half of the league. Would certainly see him as a viable option coming on.

[Real1995]

More good news  I see that McKenna is off for an AFL trial...

[Benny Barnaveld]

I suppose too there are few players that might have been in and around the team that did not get game time for one reason or another,
The likes of P.Kernan, P.McKeown, D McKenna etc interesting to see where they would have fitted in. I cant see the manager changing much from the sorta teams he has been picking.

Probable team McDonnell will pick                                                                                      

                 Hearty                                                                                            
Finn Mo           Donaghy         Mallon                                                
C.McKeever     A.O'Rourke      A.Kernan                                            
          Toner           Vernon                                                                    
M O'Rourke      Mallon            McDonnell                                                
S.Kernan         Clarke             K O'Rourke      

[fan01]

what happened that Marty wasn't playing on sunday.

[Joxer]

Who was marking Kerrigan yesterday?

[mackers]

Tony McClelland started on him, he was replaced by JP Donnelly who didn't fare much better.

[Skiddybadoo]

Brian Mallon to play slightly withdrawn from the full forwards and Marty O'Rourke to do with job he does best around the middle area i.e. winning possession. Alternatively (and possibly preferably) take Duffy / Donnelly out, put Aaron back to half back and start Tony Kernan. Its a real pity Henderson hasn't been able to kick out since the Wexford match but for whatever reason he doesn't seem to have been given enough game time in the second half of the league. Would certainly see him as a viable option coming on.
[/quote]

That's effectively what we been doing for a number of years.  It's not working and will deliver nothing on this year's showing.  We need change, not this.  Brian Mallon hasn't impressed since his injury.  He'll drop deep and MOR will be sweeping back and same old same old blah blah.  I can't take another year of watching that non-existant HF line, it's going to put me in Lookies! I'd only have McDonnell in the HF line if we had players to pop the ball over the bar.  We don't, so we need Stevie in there.  Henderson can score but hasn't been given enough game time, for whatever reason.   But he can take a score.  Prescious commodity in the orchard.  Peter, Benny Dennis can the Toal situ not be resolved?  I know he didn't leave of his own accord, show your management strength and get him back; he offers something different.

Can JP Donnelly really cut it at this level?  He was exposed against Cross last year and he is a liability temperament wise.  His time has passed.  Shannon has been OK, but to suggest he has been anything more than that would be an exageration, but perhaps he's the best we have?  Paul McKeown/Paul Kernan were prob the only two to show anything on St Patrick's day and both did well on Vaughan and Davoren, a reasonable test to gauge their abilities at senior inter-county?

Fortune favours the brave, so experiment away until your heart's content, because we still don't appear to have any sort of settled system or team.  If anyting we know less than ever.  If in the last game of the League you decide, "I know, we'll put an aging CHB into CHF, that'l work."  WTF, WTF.  A player who has played all of his inter county career and the vast majority of his club football defending suddenly to be thrown in to a creative role.  This isn't even hindsight.  I haven't spoken to anyone who didn't think that that was a crazy decision even before the ball was thrown in.

Ronan Clarke around the middle.  Was this lesson not learnt some time ago?  Evidently not.

While I don't want the showings of one game to be blown out of proportion there was too much evidence that the 'line' hasn't got it.  And that scares me as much as anything.

The team I'll not see agianst Tyrone:
McEvoy
Mallon  Donaghy  McKeown
P Kernan  McKeever A Kernan  
     Toner   Vernon
Toal (never to be seen again) MOR  Forker/J Clarke
McDonnell  Clarke  KOR/Hendy

[TacadoirArdMhacha]

That's effectively what we been doing for a number of years.  It's not working and will deliver nothing on this year's showing.  We need change, not this.  Brian Mallon hasn't impressed since his injury.  He'll drop deep and MOR will be sweeping back and same old same old blah blah.  I can't take another year of watching that non-existant HF line, it's going to put me in Lookies!

In fairness I didn't suggest that we retain the same system. Basically last year we dropped with at least 7 in defence and about 3 in midfield. I agree that doesn't work which is why I said that I'd like to us to play with 6 forwards. I don't really want to see Aidan O'Rourke starting because the consequence of that is that antoher player gets dropped back to cover for him. What I meant by a slightly withdrawn role for Brian mallon would be play him around the 40, leaving himself Aaron and Stevie playing as creative forces. Certainly I don't want him playing as deep as he has been. Brian Mallon's strength is getting the ball in the half forward line and running at defenders and/or distributing into the full forwards. I agree he hasn't been in the best of form but I still think he is a better option than the potential alternatives. Toal has had chances for Armagh this year and hasn't produced, on that basis alone, starting him against Tyrone is a non-starter. He needs to go away, get a year's club football behind him and hopefully come back next year in a better position to make a contribution. Whether that's something he will do, I have no idea.