Author Topic: The Many Faces of US Politics...  (Read 1258034 times)

whitey

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Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
« Reply #15285 on: February 27, 2020, 07:01:08 PM »
$1700 a month for family of four 2 kids under 12 100% covered .
Is that extortion I don’t know I’ve been paying it for so long .

$1700 a month.
$20,400 a year

Assume a wage of $50k a year for each taxpayer (dunno if that is reflective for you or not, but we'll run with it). $50k USD = £38.5k GBP or thereabouts.


In the UK, that would mean out of a salary of 2x£38.5k, you are paying 2x£8.75k in income tax (= 2x $11.4k).
In the US, that same couple on $50k/year each would be paying $8k of income tax each a year.


So, here - the married couple are paying equivalent of $23k in taxes - which goes toward many things as well as the NHS.

Over there, the married couple are paying $16k in taxes - but then also paying $20.4k a year in health insurance. The health insurance alone is almost equal the income tax within the UK.



You folks are being utterly f**king rinsed and you are too intransigent in your ideologies to see it.

Your numbers are way off

Average teacher in my town makes over $82K per year so a husband and wife would combined make close to $170K. Add in coaching a team or running a summer camp or tutoring program and they’re closer to making $200K combined (with access to the best hospitals and doctors in the world)

https://www.masslive.com/news/2017/12/the_highest_paying_massachuset.html

Eamonnca1

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Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
« Reply #15286 on: February 27, 2020, 08:43:14 PM »
Delegate count:
Buttigieg 22
Sanders 21
Warren 8
Klobuchar 7
Biden 6
Bloomberg 0

Betting odds for 2020 winner:

Trump 8/13
Sanders 4/1
Bloomberg 9/1
Biden 20/1

Bloomberg took a hiding last night. He was like a duck out of water. Warren obliterated him. Will be interesting to see how that affects the polling numbers over the next few days, and if his high burn rate can take the bad look off it. I just wish he'd get out of the race and put his money into something useful like flipping the 4 senate seats we're going to need.
Odds update:
Trump: 8/13
Sanders: 7/2
Bloomberg: 8/1
Biden: 22/1

Bernie's odds moving in the right direction. Biden, not so much.

Democratic candidate:
Sanders: 1/1
Bloomberg: 4/1
Buttigieg:8/1
Biden: 9/1

Update:
Delegate count:
Sanders 31
Buttigieg 22
Warren 8
Biden 8
Klobuchar 7
Bloomberg 0

2020 winner:
Trump: 8/13
Sanders: 3/1
Bloomberg: 10/1
Biden: 25/1

Democratic candidate:
Sanders: 5/6
Bloomberg: 4/1
Buttigieg:11/1
Biden: 11/1

Interesting that Chrome still thinks "Buttigieg" is a typo.

2020 winner:
Trump: 8/13
Sanders: 29/10
Bloomberg: 10/1
Biden: 28/1

Democratic candidate:
Sanders: 4/5
Bloomberg: 4/1
Biden: 10/1
Buttigieg:12/1

2020 winner:
Trump: 8/13
Sanders: 3/1
Bloomberg: 12/1
Biden: 12/1

Democratic candidate:
Sanders: 10/11
Biden: 4/1
Bloomberg: 11/2
Buttigieg:20/1

Bloomberg and Buttigeig getting it tight.

RadioGAAGAA

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Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
« Reply #15287 on: February 27, 2020, 09:50:37 PM »
Your numbers are way off

Was basing it on the average wage in the US being ~$38k a year. :shrugs:
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Gmac

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Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
« Reply #15288 on: February 27, 2020, 09:59:32 PM »
Your numbers are way off

Was basing it on the average wage in the US being ~$38k a year. :shrugs:
in sf Bay Area where I live  117k is low income for a family 82k for an individual based on median incomes of the area ,country wide its 17 and 25 k
The cost of living in California is out of control .

whitey

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Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
« Reply #15289 on: February 27, 2020, 10:00:19 PM »
Your numbers are way off

Was basing it on the average wage in the US being ~$38k a year. :shrugs:


Maybe you should live here for 20/30 years before you start “educating” us on how our healthcare system works

Someone earning $34 K per year in Boston is probably on Masshealth and paying next to nothing for their healthcare


Nationally:

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.kff.org/health-reform/fact-sheet/aca-open-enrollment-if-you-are-low-income/amp/

In general, you may be eligible for tax credits to lower your premium if you are single and your annual 2020 income is between $12,490 to $49,960 or if your household income is between $21,330 to $85,320 for a family of three (the lower income limits are higher in states that expanded Medicaid).

RadioGAAGAA

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Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
« Reply #15290 on: February 27, 2020, 10:14:12 PM »
Maybe you should live here for 20/30 years before you start “educating” us on how our healthcare system works

It doesn't work.

The money pumped in compared to the return received doesn't lie.



Someone earning $34 K per year in Boston is probably on Masshealth and paying next to nothing for their healthcare

So the average wage is more or less already receiving 100% publically funded healthcare?

and you cannot still see the numbers not adding up?

At this point - if you don't pause for a second and think about that for a minute or two - then there is little point continuing.
« Last Edit: February 27, 2020, 10:15:58 PM by RadioGAAGAA »
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Eamonnca1

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Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
« Reply #15291 on: February 27, 2020, 11:40:26 PM »
It's like talking to a brick wall, isn't it?

whitey

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Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
« Reply #15292 on: February 28, 2020, 12:01:01 AM »
Maybe you should live here for 20/30 years before you start “educating” us on how our healthcare system works

It doesn't work.

The money pumped in compared to the return received doesn't lie.



Someone earning $34 K per year in Boston is probably on Masshealth and paying next to nothing for their healthcare

So the average wage is more or less already receiving 100% publically funded healthcare?

and you cannot still see the numbers not adding up?

At this point - if you don't pause for a second and think about that for a minute or two - then there is little point continuing.

The numbers you quote are absolutely meaningless and not based on reality.  The average family are paying nowhere near what you state they are paying as a percentage of their total income if they have health insurance through their employer (which is what most people have)

I already showed you what teachers make

Here’s what prison officers make......and it’s not $50K

http://cthrupayroll.mass.gov/#!/year/2018/full_time_employees,others/pay1,pay2,pay3,pay4/explore/0-0-0-0-0/department_division/DEPARTMENT+OF+CORRECTION+(DOC)/0--0-6-1/trans_no

Eamonnca1

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Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
« Reply #15293 on: February 28, 2020, 05:05:36 AM »
Share of income spent on overall healthcare costs by income decile:

Top 10%: 3.5% of income
Ninth 10%: 5.4%
Eighth 10%: 6.5%
Seventh 10%: 6.9%
Sixth 10%: 7.9%
Fifth 10%: 10%
Fourth 10%: 12.4%
Third 10%: 14%
Second 10%: 17.1%
Lowest 10%: 35%

Source

Gabriel_Hurl

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Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
« Reply #15294 on: February 28, 2020, 05:17:21 AM »
$7,200 a year for me and the wife in California

RadioGAAGAA

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Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
« Reply #15295 on: February 28, 2020, 08:21:21 AM »

The numbers you quote are absolutely meaningless and not based on reality. 
I already showed you what teachers make

Here’s what prison officers make......and it’s not $50K

?!?

What the genuine fúck are you trying to prove by sending me the salaries of two roles?

https://www.cnbc.com/2017/08/24/how-much-americans-earn-at-every-age.html
Median is $56k per household

https://www.thestreet.com/personal-finance/average-income-in-us-14852178
Median is $49k per person

[dunno if the two above are contradictory, don't care to delve into it]




So the use of $50k certainly appears to be more based on reality than two disparate figures which represent a very small section of the populace.
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whitey

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Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
« Reply #15296 on: February 28, 2020, 10:13:01 AM »
LOL-you still don’t get it

If you’re making the average or median wage, you’re either getting it free or getting it heavily subsidized. That’s how poor your benchmark is

Averages mean absolutely nothing over here because of the enormous disparities that exist

As I have shown you a husband and wife (teacher/prison guard) in MA will be pulling in $150-200K and have excellent coverage and access to the best doctors in the world

The system is completely screwed up and is unsustainable, but most people with employer based coverage  are quite happy because they have great coverage
« Last Edit: February 28, 2020, 10:17:04 AM by whitey »

RadioGAAGAA

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Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
« Reply #15297 on: February 28, 2020, 10:27:02 AM »
LOL-you still don’t get it

If you’re making the average or median wage, you’re either getting it free or getting it heavily subsidized. That’s how poor your benchmark is

The system is completely screwed up and is unsustainable, but most people with employer based coverage  are quite happy because they have great coverage

Stop. Listen to what you yourself are saying.

Do you not realise that the inefficiency* of it all means you are paying (i)more tax to cover the subsidized folk (Who it would appear comprise the vast majority) & (ii)losing wages as that is going toward the inflated price of your health coverage? (that coverage doesn't really come for "free")

*inefficiency in terms of value for money for you - not inefficiency in terms of generating profit for pharma!


The problems within the US system are not mostly about how its paid for - more how all the disparate approaches allow for hideous markup when it comes to that system paying out.

The philosophical differences of funding of Obamacare/Medicare/Medicaid could mostly be worked around if the Federal government mandated standardised contracts (with standardised prices) for drugs & treatments nationwide.
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whitey

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Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
« Reply #15298 on: February 28, 2020, 11:15:21 AM »
But it’s still 10000000 better than the “free” healthcare you have in Ireland and the UK

RadioGAAGAA

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Re: The Many Faces of US Politics...
« Reply #15299 on: February 28, 2020, 11:49:41 AM »
But it’s still 10000000 better than the “free” healthcare you have in Ireland and the UK

The stats on life expectancy, infant mortality etc indicate its clearly not.
Then you factor in the additional money being pumped into the US system and that performance comparison looks even worse.


https://www.healthsystemtracker.org/chart-collection/u-s-life-expectancy-compare-countries/#item-le_total-life-expectancy-at-birth-in-years-1980-2017_dec-2019-update

https://www.nuffieldtrust.org.uk/resource/infant-and-neonatal-mortality

You can see in both the above, that the UK & Ireland are far from perfect - but both are significantly better than the US.
« Last Edit: February 28, 2020, 11:52:01 AM by RadioGAAGAA »
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