The Many Faces of US Politics...

[J70]

New C-Span presidential survey:

Rankings
https://www.c-span.org/presidentsurvey2017/?page=overall

Press Release
https://static.c-span.org/assets/documents/presidentSurvey/C-SPAN%20Historians%20Survey%20of%20President%20Leadership%20Feb%2017%202017%20press%20release%20PDF.pdf

Obama enters the rankings at #12.

1.  Abraham Lincoln   
2.  George Washington   
3.  Franklin D. Roosevelt   
4.  Theodore Roosevelt   
5.  Dwight D. Eisenhower   
6.  Harry S. Truman   
7.  Thomas Jefferson   
8.  John F. Kennedy   
9.  Ronald Reagan   
10. Lyndon Baines Johnson   
11. Woodrow Wilson   
12. Barack Obama
13. James Monroe   
14. James K. Polk   
15. Bill Clinton   
16. William McKinley Jr.   
17. James Madison   
18. Andrew Jackson
19. John Adams   
20. George H. W. Bush   
21. John Quincy Adams   
22. Ulysses S. Grant   
23. Grover Cleveland   
24. William H. Taft   
25. Gerald R. Ford Jr.   
26. Jimmy Carter   
27. Calvin Coolidge   
28. Richard M. Nixon   
29. James A. Garfield   
30. Benjamin Harrison   
31. Zachary Taylor   
32. Rutherford B. Hayes   
33. George W. Bush   
34. Martin Van Buren   
35. Chester Arthur   
36. Herbert Hoover   
37. Millard Fillmore   
38. William Henry Harrison   
39. John Tyler   
40. Warren G. Harding   
41. Franklin Pierce   
42. Andrew Johnson   
43. James Buchanan

Jimmy Carter at 26, surely they jest.

Just shows you shit some of the other presidents were!

[J70]

I await the outrage from the "Obama's going to declare martial law" crowd with great interest.

??

Some conservative nutjobs were going on about Obama "coming to get our guns," "going to impose communism" and "going to declare martial law" during his presidency.

Their kissing cousin nutjobs on the left droning on about Fascism and brownshirts  and slabbering on about Trump being a Nazi, two sides of the same shitty coin.

The key difference being that there is some commonality between Trump's rhetoric and those of the early Nazi years.

The stuff on Obama was utterly baseless.

Are you saying Trump has Nazi tendencies?

Here is whats going to happen, the GOP are going to lie in wait to get a few of the policies they really want implemented, once attained they will turn on Trump and I seriously doubt he will last the four years, if he does he will be a lame duck President for three quarters of his term because Paul Ryan and his ilk are not going to back this man, they just are not going to allow him to destroy the republican party.

No idea if he personally does. I think he probably doesn't give a shit about anything except his own aggrandizement and ego and has seized upon the far right and exploited the concerns of the white working class as the vehicle to facilitate his ascent to the presidency. Another trophy for his cabinet, like all his wives and properties and incessant attention seeking.

But he and his campaign and administration have doubled down on demonizing the press, muslims, immigrants, etc., expanding the military, and massaging the persecution complex and resentment of their base. "Making America great again", whatever that means.

It took far more than the working class whites and far right to get him elected, you lot need to accept the fact he won over his fair share of democrats who just could not vote for killory, he won over enough black and Hispanic voters and he did really well with the undecideds.

I didn't say some Democrats didn't fall for his shite.

Doesn't change the basis of his campaign though.

[sid waddell]

New C-Span presidential survey:

Rankings
https://www.c-span.org/presidentsurvey2017/?page=overall

Press Release
https://static.c-span.org/assets/documents/presidentSurvey/C-SPAN%20Historians%20Survey%20of%20President%20Leadership%20Feb%2017%202017%20press%20release%20PDF.pdf

Obama enters the rankings at #12.

1.  Abraham Lincoln   
2.  George Washington   
3.  Franklin D. Roosevelt   
4.  Theodore Roosevelt   
5.  Dwight D. Eisenhower   
6.  Harry S. Truman   
7.  Thomas Jefferson   
8.  John F. Kennedy   
9.  Ronald Reagan   
10. Lyndon Baines Johnson   
11. Woodrow Wilson   
12. Barack Obama
13. James Monroe   
14. James K. Polk   
15. Bill Clinton   
16. William McKinley Jr.   
17. James Madison   
18. Andrew Jackson
19. John Adams   
20. George H. W. Bush   
21. John Quincy Adams   
22. Ulysses S. Grant   
23. Grover Cleveland   
24. William H. Taft   
25. Gerald R. Ford Jr.   
26. Jimmy Carter   
27. Calvin Coolidge   
28. Richard M. Nixon   
29. James A. Garfield   
30. Benjamin Harrison   
31. Zachary Taylor   
32. Rutherford B. Hayes   
33. George W. Bush   
34. Martin Van Buren   
35. Chester Arthur   
36. Herbert Hoover   
37. Millard Fillmore   
38. William Henry Harrison   
39. John Tyler   
40. Warren G. Harding   
41. Franklin Pierce   
42. Andrew Johnson   
43. James Buchanan

Jimmy Carter at 26, surely they jest.

Agreed - he should be comfortably in the top 10.

[seafoid]

Meanwhile

Brandon Friedman @brandonfriedman

Army Secretary withdrew. Navy Secretary withdrawing. First National Security Advisor resigned. Two potential replacements withdrew.

[J70]

Meanwhile

Brandon Friedman @brandonfriedman

Army Secretary withdrew. Navy Secretary withdrawing. First National Security Advisor resigned. Two potential replacements withdrew.

"...like a fine-tuned machine..."

[omaghjoe]

New C-Span presidential survey:

Rankings
https://www.c-span.org/presidentsurvey2017/?page=overall

Press Release
https://static.c-span.org/assets/documents/presidentSurvey/C-SPAN%20Historians%20Survey%20of%20President%20Leadership%20Feb%2017%202017%20press%20release%20PDF.pdf

Obama enters the rankings at #12.

1.  Abraham Lincoln   
2.  George Washington   
3.  Franklin D. Roosevelt   
4.  Theodore Roosevelt   
5.  Dwight D. Eisenhower   
6.  Harry S. Truman   
7.  Thomas Jefferson   
8.  John F. Kennedy   
9.  Ronald Reagan   
10. Lyndon Baines Johnson   
11. Woodrow Wilson   
12. Barack Obama
13. James Monroe   
14. James K. Polk   
15. Bill Clinton   
16. William McKinley Jr.   
17. James Madison   
18. Andrew Jackson
19. John Adams   
20. George H. W. Bush   
21. John Quincy Adams   
22. Ulysses S. Grant   
23. Grover Cleveland   
24. William H. Taft   
25. Gerald R. Ford Jr.   
26. Jimmy Carter   
27. Calvin Coolidge   
28. Richard M. Nixon   
29. James A. Garfield   
30. Benjamin Harrison   
31. Zachary Taylor   
32. Rutherford B. Hayes   
33. George W. Bush   
34. Martin Van Buren   
35. Chester Arthur   
36. Herbert Hoover   
37. Millard Fillmore   
38. William Henry Harrison   
39. John Tyler   
40. Warren G. Harding   
41. Franklin Pierce   
42. Andrew Johnson   
43. James Buchanan

Jimmy Carter at 26, surely they jest.

Agreed - he should be comfortably in the top 10.

Tyrone prejustice again with James Buchanan languishing in last place

I got to wonder tho is it circumstances that make greatness rather than anything the president does.

I mean George Washington was the first president but were the colonies gonna break away and establish their own union anyway?, Ab abolished slavery but the tide had long turned against slavery anyway. LBJ had a low starting point so things couldnt get worse and America would inevitably have won WW2 anyway. Truman and Eisenhower were in office during the post war period which naturally was a period of economic growth and stability.

[moysider]

New C-Span presidential survey:

Rankings
https://www.c-span.org/presidentsurvey2017/?page=overall

Press Release
https://static.c-span.org/assets/documents/presidentSurvey/C-SPAN%20Historians%20Survey%20of%20President%20Leadership%20Feb%2017%202017%20press%20release%20PDF.pdf

Obama enters the rankings at #12.

1.  Abraham Lincoln   
2.  George Washington   
3.  Franklin D. Roosevelt   
4.  Theodore Roosevelt   
5.  Dwight D. Eisenhower   
6.  Harry S. Truman   
7.  Thomas Jefferson   
8.  John F. Kennedy   
9.  Ronald Reagan   
10. Lyndon Baines Johnson   
11. Woodrow Wilson   
12. Barack Obama
13. James Monroe   
14. James K. Polk   
15. Bill Clinton   
16. William McKinley Jr.   
17. James Madison   
18. Andrew Jackson
19. John Adams   
20. George H. W. Bush   
21. John Quincy Adams   
22. Ulysses S. Grant   
23. Grover Cleveland   
24. William H. Taft   
25. Gerald R. Ford Jr.   
26. Jimmy Carter   
27. Calvin Coolidge   
28. Richard M. Nixon   
29. James A. Garfield   
30. Benjamin Harrison   
31. Zachary Taylor   
32. Rutherford B. Hayes   
33. George W. Bush   
34. Martin Van Buren   
35. Chester Arthur   
36. Herbert Hoover   
37. Millard Fillmore   
38. William Henry Harrison   
39. John Tyler   
40. Warren G. Harding   
41. Franklin Pierce   
42. Andrew Johnson   
43. James Buchanan

Jimmy Carter at 26, surely they jest.

Agreed - he should be comfortably in the top 10.

Tyrone prejustice again with James Buchanan languishing in last place

I got to wonder tho is it circumstances that make greatness rather than anything the president does.

I mean George Washington was the first president but were the colonies gonna break away and establish their own union anyway?, Ab abolished slavery but the tide had long turned against slavery anyway. LBJ had a low starting point so things couldnt get worse and America would inevitably have won WW2 anyway. Truman and Eisenhower were in office during the post war period which naturally was a period of economic growth and stability.

LBJ was nowhere near WW2. Sixties after Kennedy got shot. The colonies were the first United States. The expansions and mass genocide of the natives happened later. Washington though had slaves. The US has a very 'complicated' history.

Truman got landed with finishing the war v Japan and Korea. Eisenhower had to deal with the hydrogen bomb, and after what he experienced in WW2 and Khrushchev also knew, a bit of sanity prevailed. Those guys saved us all.
I'd have more faith in likes of Khrushchev and Eisenhower than megalomaniacs like Putin and Trump. Khrushchev and Eisenhower had a conscience. Both made huge decisions as military leaders that cost the lives of thousands of their own countrymen as well as the Germans.   But as leaders - rather than generals - they showed good judgement and restraint.
Trump and Putin are shaman by comparison

[omochain]

Yep... nothing like a "well oiled" chicken hawk with small hands and sore foot to get the row going and let the "little people" suffer the consequences. His kids will be too busy shooting elephants.

[seafoid]

New C-Span presidential survey:

Rankings
https://www.c-span.org/presidentsurvey2017/?page=overall

Press Release
https://static.c-span.org/assets/documents/presidentSurvey/C-SPAN%20Historians%20Survey%20of%20President%20Leadership%20Feb%2017%202017%20press%20release%20PDF.pdf

Obama enters the rankings at #12.

1.  Abraham Lincoln   
2.  George Washington   
3.  Franklin D. Roosevelt   
4.  Theodore Roosevelt   
5.  Dwight D. Eisenhower   
6.  Harry S. Truman   
7.  Thomas Jefferson   
8.  John F. Kennedy   
9.  Ronald Reagan   
10. Lyndon Baines Johnson   
11. Woodrow Wilson   
12. Barack Obama
13. James Monroe   
14. James K. Polk   
15. Bill Clinton   
16. William McKinley Jr.   
17. James Madison   
18. Andrew Jackson
19. John Adams   
20. George H. W. Bush   
21. John Quincy Adams   
22. Ulysses S. Grant   
23. Grover Cleveland   
24. William H. Taft   
25. Gerald R. Ford Jr.   
26. Jimmy Carter   
27. Calvin Coolidge   
28. Richard M. Nixon   
29. James A. Garfield   
30. Benjamin Harrison   
31. Zachary Taylor   
32. Rutherford B. Hayes   
33. George W. Bush   
34. Martin Van Buren   
35. Chester Arthur   
36. Herbert Hoover   
37. Millard Fillmore   
38. William Henry Harrison   
39. John Tyler   
40. Warren G. Harding   
41. Franklin Pierce   
42. Andrew Johnson   
43. James Buchanan

Jimmy Carter at 26, surely they jest.

Agreed - he should be comfortably in the top 10.

Tyrone prejustice again with James Buchanan languishing in last place

I got to wonder tho is it circumstances that make greatness rather than anything the president does.

I mean George Washington was the first president but were the colonies gonna break away and establish their own union anyway?, Ab abolished slavery but the tide had long turned against slavery anyway. LBJ had a low starting point so things couldnt get worse and America would inevitably have won WW2 anyway. Truman and Eisenhower were in office during the post war period which naturally was a period of economic growth and stability.

Mt Rushmore features 1,2,3 and 7

[gallsman]

1,2,4 and 7. It's Teddy, not FDR.

[omaghjoe]

New C-Span presidential survey:

Rankings
https://www.c-span.org/presidentsurvey2017/?page=overall

Press Release
https://static.c-span.org/assets/documents/presidentSurvey/C-SPAN%20Historians%20Survey%20of%20President%20Leadership%20Feb%2017%202017%20press%20release%20PDF.pdf

Obama enters the rankings at #12.

1.  Abraham Lincoln   
2.  George Washington   
3.  Franklin D. Roosevelt   
4.  Theodore Roosevelt   
5.  Dwight D. Eisenhower   
6.  Harry S. Truman   
7.  Thomas Jefferson   
8.  John F. Kennedy   
9.  Ronald Reagan   
10. Lyndon Baines Johnson   
11. Woodrow Wilson   
12. Barack Obama
13. James Monroe   
14. James K. Polk   
15. Bill Clinton   
16. William McKinley Jr.   
17. James Madison   
18. Andrew Jackson
19. John Adams   
20. George H. W. Bush   
21. John Quincy Adams   
22. Ulysses S. Grant   
23. Grover Cleveland   
24. William H. Taft   
25. Gerald R. Ford Jr.   
26. Jimmy Carter   
27. Calvin Coolidge   
28. Richard M. Nixon   
29. James A. Garfield   
30. Benjamin Harrison   
31. Zachary Taylor   
32. Rutherford B. Hayes   
33. George W. Bush   
34. Martin Van Buren   
35. Chester Arthur   
36. Herbert Hoover   
37. Millard Fillmore   
38. William Henry Harrison   
39. John Tyler   
40. Warren G. Harding   
41. Franklin Pierce   
42. Andrew Johnson   
43. James Buchanan

Jimmy Carter at 26, surely they jest.

Agreed - he should be comfortably in the top 10.

Tyrone prejustice again with James Buchanan languishing in last place

I got to wonder tho is it circumstances that make greatness rather than anything the president does.

I mean George Washington was the first president but were the colonies gonna break away and establish their own union anyway?, Ab abolished slavery but the tide had long turned against slavery anyway. LBJ had a low starting point so things couldnt get worse and America would inevitably have won WW2 anyway. Truman and Eisenhower were in office during the post war period which naturally was a period of economic growth and stability.

LBJ was nowhere near WW2. Sixties after Kennedy got shot. The colonies were the first United States. The expansions and mass genocide of the natives happened later. Washington though had slaves. The US has a very 'complicated' history.

Truman got landed with finishing the war v Japan and Korea. Eisenhower had to deal with the hydrogen bomb, and after what he experienced in WW2 and Khrushchev also knew, a bit of sanity prevailed. Those guys saved us all.
I'd have more faith in likes of Khrushchev and Eisenhower than megalomaniacs like Putin and Trump. Khrushchev and Eisenhower had a conscience. Both made huge decisions as military leaders that cost the lives of thousands of their own countrymen as well as the Germans.   But as leaders - rather than generals - they showed good judgement and restraint.
Trump and Putin are shaman by comparison

Meant FDR not LBJ

[seafoid]

1,2,4 and 7. It's Teddy, not FDR.

Good point. Well spotted

Meanwhile

Gary Shteyngart ‏@Shteyngart  9 h

Sweden stood with us after Bowling Green. Today we stand with Sweden.

[stew]

1,2,4 and 7. It's Teddy, not FDR.

Good point. Well spotted

Meanwhile

Gary Shteyngart ‏@Shteyngart  9 h

Sweden stood with us after Bowling Green. Today we stand with Sweden.

Rape numbers have gone ballistic since the influx of immigrants, still standing with Sweden?

[HiMucker]

1,2,4 and 7. It's Teddy, not FDR.

Good point. Well spotted

Meanwhile

Gary Shteyngart ‏@Shteyngart  9 h

Sweden stood with us after Bowling Green. Today we stand with Sweden.

Rape numbers have gone ballistic since the influx of immigrants, still standing with Sweden?

Sure throw up some figures there.

[seafoid]

1,2,4 and 7. It's Teddy, not FDR.

Good point. Well spotted

Meanwhile

Gary Shteyngart ‏@Shteyngart  9 h

Sweden stood with us after Bowling Green. Today we stand with Sweden.

Rape numbers have gone ballistic since the influx of immigrants, still standing with Sweden?

Read this, Stew

http://talkingpointsmemo.com/edblog/the-american-experiment-in-exile

"I have been thinking for weeks that the central challenge and reality of the Trump Era is what do you do as an institutionalist when the central institutions of the state have been taken over, albeit democratically, by what amount to pirates, people who want to destroy them? To put it another way, do the institutions and norms which Trump and his gang are trying to destroy become shackles and obstacles in the way of those trying to defend them? There's no easy answer to these questions. "