The Many Faces of US Politics...

[J70]

Good read Declan. However there is a an argument to be had about pandering to one demographic's alternate reality - whilst I agree with her point that stable, solid jobs are essential to the White Working Class rather than piecemeal measures like minimum wage hikes, too much of this need is expressed as a nostalgia for the types of heavy manufacture, heavily masculine jobs from the 50's, 60's and early 70's.

This is an economic wonderland that is not coming back - not just because of globalism, but because the type of society it created needed a permanent underclass, which under Civil Rights, is just not tenable anymore.

As much as coastal elites need to listen to the despair, the WWC need to realise that going back is not a way to assuage that despair. Trump's promises to the coal miners of PA, West VA and other places, and the heavy manufacturing belts in the Rust Belt are impossible to fulfil. As much as a new path to solid employment must be mapped out by the elites, these communities need to accept that change needs to come in how they define work.

The turkeys decided they have had enough of Christmas and voted for Thanksgiving.

The part that many find hard to stomach is not just the death of their jobs, but that it was linked directly to international trade deals.

The most significant deal was the China one, 1 million manufacturing jobs lost after it.

Anybody who has had any experience with Chinese manufacturing, a couple of observations can be made

• [/China adherence to employee conditions (or lack of)
  China's commitment to quality (or lack off) li]
  
  China's commitment to environmental conditions (or lack of)
  

So Chinese companies cut corners and costs, child labor, environmental, quality standards nowhere near US standards, and the government signed a trade deal that opened up the US market to them. So US manufacturing workers are held to a higher standard are competing against a lower cost structure due to different standards being applied to them.

These jobs might not come back, but future jobs should be protected with trade deals that put US manufacturing on an equal footing.

Regarding jobs, these people want to work, so has the government put in-place incentives for companies to relocate to these areas??? If not, why not? That's a major issue that Trump needs to address (corp tax rate of 15% would be a big help)

And BTW, this is not a white issue, this is an issue that crosses racial divide. During this election, the white areas decided that this was the important topic, but resolving this issues for African American

It's a trade off.

Trade deals = cheap consumer products.

Now I've no objection whatsoever to trade deals including requirements and standards for worker, child and environmental safety. I'd encourage it. Means government inspections though, which might not go over well in certain sections.

On the corporate tax rate - no real objection to that, at the moment, either, although the shortfall will have to be made somewhere.

[omochain]

But it does rather destroy the notion of the white working class valuing "straight talk".

As has been noted though they don't see the part where he doesn't mean it. All they see is him talking out his ass but then don't read the paper/watch CNN the next day to realise it was a complete load of horsehit!

"Straight talk" in politics is a euphemism for complex problems being explained in simplistic ways. Simplistic explanations cannot explain complex things and distort reality by telling people what they want to hear, so they aren't straight talk at all.

Complex, nuanced explanations, which involve an investment of some time to understand, but are often not what people want to hear, are derided as "phoniness".

But complex, nuanced explanations and arguments can also be dressed up to cloak absolute bullshit.

So:
"Straight talk" = phoniness
Complex, nuanced explanations can = real straight talk
but
"Complex, nuanced explanations" can also = barefaced lies

Profits as a % of GDP are now 20%. Labour share of GDP has been flat for years.

And now Trump has a Goldman person as Treasury sec who will kill Dodd Frank.

But obviously the problem is Muslims.

Muslims are only interested in prophets which means the ordinary blue collar white guy loses his job. Therefore Muslims are the problem.

Good post Sid. Helping the masses strive for the "American dream" a la Joe the plumber has been one of the great con jobs of all time and it's beauty is the simplicity of the message.

[seafoid]

Cheap consumer products and cheap debt were the deal  for stagnant wages. It worked beautifully while the richest 1% captured all the profits. Now the system is fucked. Even the biggest companies cannot grow their revenues. Even if Trumpcuts tax to 15% revenues will tank. That means junk bonds will be in trouble.

[muppet]

http://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2016/12/05/trump-sets-private-prisons-free

...Just as we spend billions on weapons systems that we may not need, so, too, we jail more people than we need for longer than necessary, because it keeps someone's balance sheet healthy. In recent years, an unlikely coalition of conservatives and liberals had made some progress in weakening this system, going after policies like mandatory sentences. Trump's election will make it much harder to sustain that progress. Private prisons, he said earlier this year, "work a lot better," and he'll doubtless look to expand their reach. And he has a simple and grim answer to how many people we should put in prisons and detention centers: More. ♦...

[seafoid]

There is a $12 tn difference between Trump's flaithiúlachas and The GOP congressional party when it comes to budgets.

Give him 3 months and it will be as chaotic as Brexit

[muppet]

I see Bertie has picked up the change in wind direction.

[stew]

Angry bluecollar voters don't understand the system.  American companies shafted their workers by exporting jobs to China but it was fabulous for shareholders.
American companies shafted voters by gutting Financial regulation and the bill came with Lehman but it was fabulous for shareholders when the Fed refloated  the bubble.

Profits as a % of GDP are now 20%. Labour share of GDP has been flat for years.

And now Trump has a Goldman person as Treasury sec who will kill Dodd Frank.

But obviously the problem is Muslims.

The problem is Bill Clinton and every President since these crappy trade deals were put in place, incentivize companies to go to West Virginia and hammer the shIt via tariff out of the likes of Ford etc, any company that went abroad to make larger profits and took the jobs with them!

[J70]

Angry bluecollar voters don't understand the system.  American companies shafted their workers by exporting jobs to China but it was fabulous for shareholders.
American companies shafted voters by gutting Financial regulation and the bill came with Lehman but it was fabulous for shareholders when the Fed refloated  the bubble.

Profits as a % of GDP are now 20%. Labour share of GDP has been flat for years.

And now Trump has a Goldman person as Treasury sec who will kill Dodd Frank.

But obviously the problem is Muslims.

The problem is Bill Clinton and every President since these crappy trade deals were put in place, incentivize companies to go to West Virginia and hammer the shIt via tariff out of the likes of Ford etc, any company that went abroad to make larger profits and took the jobs with them!

NAFTA was actually negotiated under the first George Bush. He had to leave the ratification to Clinton because he didn't win the second term. Had he won the second term, he would have signed it into law.

[stew]

Angry bluecollar voters don't understand the system.  American companies shafted their workers by exporting jobs to China but it was fabulous for shareholders.
American companies shafted voters by gutting Financial regulation and the bill came with Lehman but it was fabulous for shareholders when the Fed refloated  the bubble.

Profits as a % of GDP are now 20%. Labour share of GDP has been flat for years.

And now Trump has a Goldman person as Treasury sec who will kill Dodd Frank.

But obviously the problem is Muslims.

The problem is Bill Clinton and every President since these crappy trade deals were put in place, incentivize companies to go to West Virginia and hammer the shIt via tariff out of the likes of Ford etc, any company that went abroad to make larger profits and took the jobs with them!

NAFTA was actually negotiated under the first George Bush. He had to leave the ratification to Clinton because he didn't win the second term. Had he won the second term, he would have signed it into law.

Correct, this was not a Republican v Democrat thing and Clinton was all about Globalization as was old HW!

More money for the boys and screw the working man !

[J70]

Like any such agreement, there were pros and cons. Some benefited, some suffered. On the whole, the US has benefited.

What do you think will happen to US exports if Trump starts trade wars?

[stew]

Like any such agreement, there were pros and cons. Some benefited, some suffered. On the whole, the US has benefited.

What do you think will happen to US exports if Trump starts trade wars?

The US has benefited on the whole.................) You jest!

I have no time for Trump, that said I think he will be an excellent man to negotiate much better trade deals for the USA, that is his brief, sadly Ireland will probably suffer a bit but that is not his problem is it.

Wait and see, I am constantly amazed on this site, people here have sage wisdom, they know what Trump is going to do and how it is going to go before he takes the oath of office, hardly anyone can sit on their hands and take a wait and see approach, shame that, maybe their liberal bias is working overtime, ho knows, who cares, I am going to wait and see and I am going to wish him all the best, he cannot be any worse than Obama and Clinton!

[muppet]

Like any such agreement, there were pros and cons. Some benefited, some suffered. On the whole, the US has benefited.

What do you think will happen to US exports if Trump starts trade wars?

The US has benefited on the whole.................) You jest!

I have no time for Trump, that said I think he will be an excellent man to negotiate much better trade deals for the USA, that is his brief, sadly Ireland will probably suffer a bit but that is not his problem is it.

Wait and see, I am constantly amazed on this site, people here have sage wisdom, they know what Trump is going to do and how it is going to go before he takes the oath of office, hardly anyone can sit on their hands and take a wait and see approach, shame that, maybe their liberal bias is working overtime, ho knows, who cares, I am going to wait and see and I am going to wish him all the best, he cannot be any worse than Obama and Clinton!

Maybe they listened to him?

Maybe they are still listening to him??

[muppet]

http://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/trump-pressed-farage-to-oppose-wind-farms-p6hqqphz9

Trump 'pressed Farage to oppose wind farms'

..Donald Trump's first weeks as president-elect sparked ethical concerns last night after he appeared to use his new position to advance his personal business interests.

It emerged that he encouraged Nigel Farage, the interim Ukip leader, to redouble his opposition to offshore wind farms in Scotland, apparently for the benefit of one of his properties.

Mr Trump has sought to block the construction of an offshore wind farm near his Menie golf resort in Aberdeenshire so that the turbines would not be seen by golfers..

[J70]

Like any such agreement, there were pros and cons. Some benefited, some suffered. On the whole, the US has benefited.

What do you think will happen to US exports if Trump starts trade wars?

The US has benefited on the whole.................) You jest!

No, I would lean that way from what I've read (I'm no expert). But given that many economists think it has probably been a net benefit, even if modest, how are you so sure that its been harmful?

The problem in analyzing it is that there are so many variables and it was implemented just as globalization was taking off, so there's no may to know for certain what would have happened had NAFTA not been signed. For every job lost to Mexico, many more have gone to China, and there's NO trade agreement with them.

I have no time for Trump, that said I think he will be an excellent man to negotiate much better trade deals for the USA, that is his brief, sadly Ireland will probably suffer a bit but that is not his problem is it.

Wait and see, I am constantly amazed on this site, people here have sage wisdom, they know what Trump is going to do and how it is going to go before he takes the oath of office, hardly anyone can sit on their hands and take a wait and see approach, shame that, maybe their liberal bias is working overtime, ho knows, who cares, I am going to wait and see and I am going to wish him all the best, he cannot be any worse than Obama and Clinton!

Of course he can be worse. FAR worse.

But, he's there and we have no choice but to watch and see what he does. Given that it would presumably benefit those of us in the US, I hope he does negotiate better trade deals. What they might look like, I have no idea, and I'm extremely skeptical. Its of a kind with his secret plan for ISIS at this point.

[seafoid]

Like any such agreement, there were pros and cons. Some benefited, some suffered. On the whole, the US has benefited.

What do you think will happen to US exports if Trump starts trade wars?

The US has benefited on the whole.................) You jest!

I have no time for Trump, that said I think he will be an excellent man to negotiate much better trade deals for the USA, that is his brief, sadly Ireland will probably suffer a bit but that is not his problem is it.

Wait and see, I am constantly amazed on this site, people here have sage wisdom, they know what Trump is going to do and how it is going to go before he takes the oath of office, hardly anyone can sit on their hands and take a wait and see approach, shame that, maybe their liberal bias is working overtime, ho knows, who cares, I am going to wait and see and I am going to wish him all the best, he cannot be any worse than Obama and Clinton!

Stew Trump is not a trade negotiator. He is the hurler on the ditch who became president 
America is a lady in her 50s who looks beautiful in fading light. Trump has decided to grab her by the Pussy.  A New sitcom that will run for 4 years. Trump thinks he can f**k her back to life . But she has some terrible secrets

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GnXaY39o2S8