The Many Faces of US Politics...

[Eamonnca1]

Conservatives love running for office while promising simple solutions to complex problems.

Problems in North Korea? Bomb it.
Iran developing nuclear weapons? Bomb them.
Iraq doing ... something or other? Invade it.
Libya in civil war? Bomb it. Oh, Barry Obama's already doing that? Well then invade it.
Bit of trouble in Palestine? Bomb it.
People committing murder? Kill them.
People committing robbery? Lock em up and throw away the key.
People selling loose cigarettes? Zero tolerance policing.
Energy problems? Drill for more oil.

I'm all in favour of broken windows policing, they do that in the UK too and god knows with some of the crime-ridden s***-holes I've lived in it's badly needed. They difference with English cops is they'll stop young hoodlums in their tracks, but they don't need to pull out guns and shoot them or choke them to death.

Comparing American cops to English cops reminds me of the difference between two types of teacher I had in school. One was the older type who didn't have the latest teacher training and who relied on corporal punishment to maintain order, and often couldn't teach to save their lives. The other was the younger type who did have the latest training, and could keep a class under control through communication and not having to lift a finger to hit anyone. It doesn't take a genius to know which was the more competent.

This brings me to another conservative trope, the idea that the only option for police is to use overwhelming deadly force. The idea that less deadly alternatives might exist does not seem to enter the conservative head. They think the only alternative to shooting criminals is to let them get away with it scot free. Always with them it's all or nothing. Conservatives are not very bright. They're not capable of understanding anything even remotely complex. Why they're allowed to vote, or even breed for that matter, is beyond me.

[maigheo]

Late entry for Dumbest Post of the Year or posting while Drunk

[omaghjoe]

Conservatives love running for office while promising simple solutions to complex problems.

Problems in North Korea? Bomb it.
Iran developing nuclear weapons? Bomb them.
Iraq doing ... something or other? Invade it.
Libya in civil war? Bomb it. Oh, Barry Obama's already doing that? Well then invade it.
Bit of trouble in Palestine? Bomb it.
People committing murder? Kill them.
People committing robbery? Lock em up and throw away the key.
People selling loose cigarettes? Zero tolerance policing.
Energy problems? Drill for more oil.

I'm all in favour of broken windows policing, they do that in the UK too and god knows with some of the crime-ridden s***-holes I've lived in it's badly needed. They difference with English cops is they'll stop young hoodlums in their tracks, but they don't need to pull out guns and shoot them or choke them to death.

Comparing American cops to English cops reminds me of the difference between two types of teacher I had in school. One was the older type who didn't have the latest teacher training and who relied on corporal punishment to maintain order, and often couldn't teach to save their lives. The other was the younger type who did have the latest training, and could keep a class under control through communication and not having to lift a finger to hit anyone. It doesn't take a genius to know which was the more competent.

This brings me to another conservative trope, the idea that the only option for police is to use overwhelming deadly force. The idea that less deadly alternatives might exist does not seem to enter the conservative head. They think the only alternative to shooting criminals is to let them get away with it scot free. Always with them it's all or nothing. Conservatives are not very bright. They're not capable of understanding anything even remotely complex. Why they're allowed to vote, or even breed for that matter, is beyond me.

Eamonn you were doin a great job and I was almost in complete agreement with you until you came out with that. Why do you want to undermine your argument with coming out with rubbish like that?

Much as I loathe the right of American politics, since I found been here I have found the attitude of left quite abrasive and arrogant....very off putting.

By the way on another point why is the right called conservative in this country when they are anything but? I thought Conservative meant  being sensible?

All in all the problem with American politics and society in general is that it is all based on what is best for the individual not what is best for the greater community, country, or society.
If you talk to old people here they say things like "People need to be more patriotic" which to younger people sounds like "support our troops" or "protect our freedom". But if you delve a little deeper they are talking more about doing more with less questioning what's in it for me, looking out for your neighbour etc etc.

[Eamonnca1]

I just like to give conservatives a little taste of their own medicine once in a while. They use the word "liberal" as a term of abuse, so I occasionally do likewise with the word "conservative" just to show them how stupid it is. 

What I wrote above is tame compared to what is said on AM talk radio or on Fox News any given minute, and especially compared to the cesspit of conservative online newspaper comments. They don't like it up them.

[muppet]

Have you ever jaywalked? Drove over the speed limit? Sold a match or concert ticket? Bought something on Amazon and not paid the tax?

That's the level of law breaking Eric Garner was involved in. Worth a ticket at most.

And the resisting arrest amounted to waving his hands and telling them to leave him alone.

Menace to society he was!

Relevant to that moment in time is that he was breaking the law. Now I don't know if this was the very first time he sold stuff on the streets or whether he was a serial offender but if he was known to police then maybe he already had a few warnings.

If he was goading the police to leave him alone while he was undertaking this venture then you won't expect favourable treatment surely? If the police don't arrest him then it would appear that they condone such behavior and then it's open season. Can you let things slide like that? That's how you create no-go areas.

That's what tickets are for. Common sense has to come into it, and these cops demonstrated none. There was no threat to the public here. Any idiot should know that "tackling" a large, obese man like that is asking for trouble. There are limits to how far police can go in apprehending people. Choking and pushing a man's head into the pavement over loose cigarettes is just insane.

http://www.nytimes.com/2014/08/11/nyregion/author-of-broken-windows-policing-defends-his-theory.html?_r=0

Ok... Not sure if you're arguing for, against or agreeing with my post based on that article!

The sentiment is that if you allow smaller crimes to happen under your watch you'll see bigger ones emerging.
Zero tolerance is the only way to go.

Most graffiti works are eyesores but I suppose it encourages those types to try and spell things correctly.

You might as well be hung for a sheep as a lamb?

What would you suggest as a deterrent?

I dunno.

Maybe a court system, based on innocent until proven guilty or something like that. You'd hardly go for it though.

For serial re-offenders I'd have no problem with a number of strikes and you are out type system. I.E 3 (or whatever) major crimes and you stay in jail. But only administered through the courts and none of this crazy justice administered on the streets.

You're right, I wouldn't go for it.Courts take too long and expensive, especially for the minor items.

But the number of strikes could work if administered correctly but i'm sure there will be those who would try circumvent this also.

Have you ever thought of running for office?

You would get lots of vote, maybe under a shoot the homeless banner or something.

You know, that isn't such a bad idea....
Next GE might be a bit too soon though.

Not a bit of it, even though many of the US homeless are ex-servicemen from Afghanistan & Iraq, you would clean up with the religious right vote.

[Eamonnca1]

Not a bit of it, even though many of the US homeless are ex-servicemen from Afghanistan & Iraq, you would clean up with the religious right vote.

...and not one single person with dark skin will vote for him. Which is why the GOP is on its way to the electoral wilderness for a generation until they get their FW DeClerk figure to wake them up and tell them you can't go around demonizing half the population and then expect to get elected.

[whitey]

Not a bit of it, even though many of the US homeless are ex-servicemen from Afghanistan & Iraq, you would clean up with the religious right vote.

...and not one single person with dark skin will vote for him. Which is why the GOP is on its way to the electoral wilderness for a generation until they get their FW DeClerk figure to wake them up and tell them you can't go around demonizing half the population and then expect to get elected.

LOL...believe what you want......

If what you say is true, care to explain what happened in the 2014 midterms and gubernatorial races?

The term Democratic wipeout springs to mind!

[whitey]

Conservatives love running for office while promising simple solutions to complex problems.

Problems in North Korea? Bomb it.
Iran developing nuclear weapons? Bomb them.
Iraq doing ... something or other? Invade it.
Libya in civil war? Bomb it. Oh, Barry Obama's already doing that? Well then invade it.
Bit of trouble in Palestine? Bomb it.
People committing murder? Kill them.
People committing robbery? Lock em up and throw away the key.
People selling loose cigarettes? Zero tolerance policing.
Energy problems? Drill for more oil.

I'm all in favour of broken windows policing, they do that in the UK too and god knows with some of the crime-ridden s***-holes I've lived in it's badly needed. They difference with English cops is they'll stop young hoodlums in their tracks, but they don't need to pull out guns and shoot them or choke them to death.

Comparing American cops to English cops reminds me of the difference between two types of teacher I had in school. One was the older type who didn't have the latest teacher training and who relied on corporal punishment to maintain order, and often couldn't teach to save their lives. The other was the younger type who did have the latest training, and could keep a class under control through communication and not having to lift a finger to hit anyone. It doesn't take a genius to know which was the more competent.

This brings me to another conservative trope, the idea that the only option for police is to use overwhelming deadly force. The idea that less deadly alternatives might exist does not seem to enter the conservative head. They think the only alternative to shooting criminals is to let them get away with it scot free. Always with them it's all or nothing. Conservatives are not very bright. They're not capable of understanding anything even remotely complex. Why they're allowed to vote, or even breed for that matter, is beyond me.

LOL x2.....lots of generalizations here. Yes there are some very stupid conservatives......and an equal number of stupid liberal voters....Q the Obamaphone lady.....

Garner was almost 30 fvckin stone....with all types of health issues....did you want the cops to take his blood pressure and give him a physical before arresting him.....A guy i might add, who had already been arrested 30 times. Did the cops know that.....I dont know......but my guess is they knew him.

[macdanger2]

Anyone who can defend the cops who killed (murdered) Garner is impossible to understand. Completely indefensible imo

[whitey]

http://heyjackass.com/category/2014-chicago-crime-murder-stats/


YAWWWWWNNNNN........

Finally. An far right-wing blog was the source, not a newspaper as you originally claimed.

Interesting site that. It got website of the week on http://weaponsman.com/?p=9505 no less.

But if you blow up the picture you can see the types of homicide, including 'police homicide'. The ones with the black dots are police homicides.

Saying no one has mentioned the other murders last week is nothing more than a straw man argument and is irrelevant to the debate. It would be the same as me saying 'not pointing at all the other police homicides proves we are not cop haters'. Each case is unique and must be assessed individually, which is what an investigation and a court case would de, if they were allowed to happen.

But it is very obvious that those saying it is ok to shoot unarmed black men have to base their arguments gimmicks such as faux outrage at the lack of outrage regarding some other outrage. No one is fooled by this stuff.

Hi Muppett...first of all Happy New Year...all the best to you and yours

As were coming close to the end of the month I have some updated stats for you.....I hope the source is to your liking..... http://homicides.redeyechicago.com/date/2014/12/

Maybe your pal Rev Al can organize a protest March........oh wait.......hes currently under investigation for owing the IRS $4M......we need those 1 percenters to pay their fair share and all that

[foxcommander]

I'm all in favour of broken windows policing, they do that in the UK too and god knows with some of the crime-ridden s***-holes I've lived in it's badly needed. They difference with English cops is they'll stop young hoodlums in their tracks, but they don't need to pull out guns and shoot them or choke them to death.

Just in case you've forgotten - guns are not widely available to the English public for purchase.
The likelihood of English blokes going out at night and taking a weapon with them is a hell of a lot lower than in the States thus reducing the risk of shootouts. The general hostile attitude towards the police doesn't help these situations.

But don't let that stop your theory

[Eamonnca1]

LOL...believe what you want......

If what you say is true, care to explain what happened in the 2014 midterms and gubernatorial races?

The term Democratic wipeout springs to mind!

Only too happy to oblige. Democratic voters tend to not vote in big numbers in midterm elections. It'll be a different story in 2016.

The term Republican wipeout springs to mind!

[Eamonnca1]

LOL x2.....lots of generalizations here. Yes there are some very stupid conservatives......and an equal number of stupid liberal voters....Q the Obamaphone lady.....

Garner was almost 30 fvckin stone....with all types of health issues....did you want the cops to take his blood pressure and give him a physical before arresting him.....A guy i might add, who had already been arrested 30 times. Did the cops know that.....I dont know......but my guess is they knew him.

If he was arrested 30 times I have to assume that they did it without killing him stone dead on each occasion. Kinda undermines the "we had no choice but to kill him" defence, wouldn't you say?

[Eamonnca1]

I'm all in favour of broken windows policing, they do that in the UK too and god knows with some of the crime-ridden s***-holes I've lived in it's badly needed. They difference with English cops is they'll stop young hoodlums in their tracks, but they don't need to pull out guns and shoot them or choke them to death.

Just in case you've forgotten - guns are not widely available to the English public for purchase.
The likelihood of English blokes going out at night and taking a weapon with them is a hell of a lot lower than in the States thus reducing the risk of shootouts. The general hostile attitude towards the police doesn't help these situations.

But don't let that stop your theory

Oh I won't. Garmer wasn't armed. Was he? So it was quite possible to arrest him without killing him. As someone already stated, the cops had managed to perform this "impossible" feat thirty times previously.

But the biggest problem with American cops and their shoot-to-kill policy is the the racial aspect of it. A white man can reach into his pocket for his license and think nothing of it. A black man is taking his life in his hands if he does the same thing.

[whitey]

LOL x2.....lots of generalizations here. Yes there are some very stupid conservatives......and an equal number of stupid liberal voters....Q the Obamaphone lady.....

Garner was almost 30 fvckin stone....with all types of health issues....did you want the cops to take his blood pressure and give him a physical before arresting him.....A guy i might add, who had already been arrested 30 times. Did the cops know that.....I dont know......but my guess is they knew him.

If he was arrested 30 times I have to assume that they did it without killing him stone dead on each occasion. Kinda undermines the "we had no choice but to kill him" defence, wouldn't you say?

Ehhhh.....maybe he didnt resist arrest on the other 30 occasions???