Mobile phones in 'Flight Mode'

[balladmaker]

While on a few flights recently, they have always announced that mobile phones can be used in flight mode during the flight, except during take off and landing.

I would usually have the phone on flight mode, listening to a few mp3's or playing a game etc.  Until a flight the other day, when the stewardess, in a pretty ignorant way, told me to turn the phone off.  I replied by saying that it was in flight mode, and her reply was that it didn't matter......only Blackberry's in flight mode were permitted.  And off she went.

So does anyone know why a blackberry in flight mode is permitted, but not a Nokia N95?

[tyssam5]

Never had a problem like that. Which airline?

[balladmaker]

BMIBaby

[balladmaker]

Just checked the FAQ's on BMI's website, and came across the below:

can I use my mobile phone onboard?
The use of mobile phones is prohibited on all bmibaby flights. This also includes phones that have a 'flight mode' function.

Why would a Blackberry be different....

[Hardy]

They're afraid it'll jam their communications.


American tourist - Hey fella, what are those there fruits?
Local - Dem's blackberries.

AT - But they're not black, they're red.
L - Ah they're always red when they're green.

[muppet]

Airlines are now starting to allow phones to be used in flight mode.

Hardy it's not so much 'jamming communications' which is mainly VHF, it is more to do with the navigation systems and the fly by wire nature of modern aircraft and the array of computers involved.

[muppet]

Aer Lingus still don't allow phones to be switched on in "flight mode" during flights.

The purpose of mobile phones not being allowed on planes concerns not so much a direct jamming of aircraft frequencies as mobile phones and aeronautical comms work on different frequencies, but rather the "pulsing" nature of GSM signals, especially those in the 900MHz band, that can upset navigational aids and air-to-ground comms. If a plane does not have its comms wiring completely shielded, a problem can result. Its easy enough to verify, simply leave a mobile phone that's on a 2G network close to a speaker and you'll hear the pulsing noise at some point when you either receive a text message or a call, or during a period where the base station and handset communicate with each other to let each other know of their presence e.g. when you have just switched on your phone and its looking for a network signal.

3G mobile phone signals do not have this pulsing sound, but the transceiver in the phone itself may silently cause problems concerning the unpredictability of certain comms equipment in close proximity to a transmitter.

Flight mode, or Offline mode as it is on my phone, is designed to switch off the transceiver on the phone, disconnecting it from any network it is currently on and will not look for other base stations to connect to, and in theory should be perfectly fine for use on an aeroplane unless there is another part on the mobile phone that might cause interference. However a number of airlines are taking a very cautious approach on this.

Incorrect. It is now Aer Lingus policy to allow phones to be in flight mode. 

[thebigfella]

Aer Lingus still don't allow phones to be switched on in "flight mode" during flights.

The purpose of mobile phones not being allowed on planes concerns not so much a direct jamming of aircraft frequencies as mobile phones and aeronautical comms work on different frequencies, but rather the "pulsing" nature of GSM signals, especially those in the 900MHz band, that can upset navigational aids and air-to-ground comms. If a plane does not have its comms wiring completely shielded, a problem can result. Its easy enough to verify, simply leave a mobile phone that's on a 2G network close to a speaker and you'll hear the pulsing noise at some point when you either receive a text message or a call, or during a period where the base station and handset communicate with each other to let each other know of their presence e.g. when you have just switched on your phone and its looking for a network signal.

3G mobile phone signals do not have this pulsing sound, but the transceiver in the phone itself may silently cause problems concerning the unpredictability of certain comms equipment in close proximity to a transmitter.

Flight mode, or Offline mode as it is on my phone, is designed to switch off the transceiver on the phone, disconnecting it from any network it is currently on and will not look for other base stations to connect to, and in theory should be perfectly fine for use on an aeroplane unless there is another part on the mobile phone that might cause interference. However a number of airlines are taking a very cautious approach on this.

Incorrect. It is now Aer Lingus policy to allow phones to be in flight mode. 

Hmmmm on monday morning (like every monday for the last 6 months) I must inform the stewardess, when she tells everyone to switch their handsets off and that flight mode is prohibited, of this new policy 

[muppet]

Aer Lingus still don't allow phones to be switched on in "flight mode" during flights.

The purpose of mobile phones not being allowed on planes concerns not so much a direct jamming of aircraft frequencies as mobile phones and aeronautical comms work on different frequencies, but rather the "pulsing" nature of GSM signals, especially those in the 900MHz band, that can upset navigational aids and air-to-ground comms. If a plane does not have its comms wiring completely shielded, a problem can result. Its easy enough to verify, simply leave a mobile phone that's on a 2G network close to a speaker and you'll hear the pulsing noise at some point when you either receive a text message or a call, or during a period where the base station and handset communicate with each other to let each other know of their presence e.g. when you have just switched on your phone and its looking for a network signal.

3G mobile phone signals do not have this pulsing sound, but the transceiver in the phone itself may silently cause problems concerning the unpredictability of certain comms equipment in close proximity to a transmitter.

Flight mode, or Offline mode as it is on my phone, is designed to switch off the transceiver on the phone, disconnecting it from any network it is currently on and will not look for other base stations to connect to, and in theory should be perfectly fine for use on an aeroplane unless there is another part on the mobile phone that might cause interference. However a number of airlines are taking a very cautious approach on this.

Incorrect. It is now Aer Lingus policy to allow phones to be in flight mode. 

Hmmmm on monday morning (like every monday for the last 6 months) I must inform the stewardess, when she tells everyone to switch their handsets off and that flight mode is prohibited, of this new policy 

Hmmmm on Monday morning you should inform the stewardess that flight mode is now allowed inflight (not for taxi, take-off, approach or landing) for devices with 'flight' or 'flight safety' mode. If she suggests differently you can politely suggest she asks the Captain about the Flight Crew Instruction of the 19th February on the subject. When she thanks you for pointing it out, tell her it's nothing.

[Bud Wiser]

Right, so here is a question for some of ye techies.  I am installing a CCTV System in an airport albeit a small airport.  I am putting cameras in hangars aimed at fuel tanks and I am mounting them on a building that is not connected to the main control centre where my main switch gear is. The two buildings are seperate and 200 - 300 yards apart and Bud is not into diging trenches.  So, I was thinking of using Wireless signal between the two buildings.   Here is the frequency the wireless tranny works on: http://www.talitor.com/products/surveillance/pdf/3064112.pdf

I know that because it is on the 2.4Mhz frequency that it could knock the shit out of a broadband wireless signal and it does.  This airport caters for small craft, helicoptors and privat executive jets. Are there any internal communications on these yokes that could be interfeered with by my signal?  Short of setting one up and then hiding behind the shed and waiting to see will one clatter off the ground on take off or landing I could I suppose ask the control tower but I don't think the guys in this control tower would know. 

[lfdown2]

flew ryanair dublin to milan few weeks ago and they allow use of phones on the flight, with or without flight mode though again not during take off and landing, therefore useless as the signal a mile or 2 up isnt the best ...

[Bud Wiser]

My question is based on the fact that the mobile phone ouldcause interference with the onboard radio signals used by the plane and so,because it is in the same frequency range as Broadband could I cause trouble, although if that were the case why don't adjacent transmitters for mobile phone signals or broadband that are stronger than my little tranny cause trouble if that were the case. 

[muppet]

flew ryanair dublin to milan few weeks ago and they allow use of phones on the flight, with or without flight mode though again not during take off and landing, therefore useless as the signal a mile or 2 up isnt the best ...

I hope you didn't make too many calls. http://www.rte.ie/news/2009/0219/ryanair.html



Ryanair has launched Europe's first fleet-wide in-flight mobile phone service allowing passengers to text and make calls from their own handsets.

State-of-the-art technology has already been fitted on 20 of the carrier's mainly Dublin-based aircraft as part of a six-month trial, which is the first step in fitting out the entire fleet.

Ryanair Chief Executive Michael O'Leary said he expects the service to be popular, particularly with teenagers and tourists looking to keep in touch while travelling.
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'It's your choice whether you want to use it or not,' Mr O'Leary said.

'Certainly I think it will be very welcome for people who want to make and receive urgent or important calls.

'I think the big users here would be teenagers, people generally visiting friends and family.'

Each plane will be fitted with a special antennae allowing the mobile phone or blackberry signal to be bounced via a satellite to the ground, where it is then routed to the networks.

The service, which is being provided by Swiss in-flight communications company OnAir, will initially be available to O2 customers, as well as 50 other operators across Europe.

Vodafone Ireland has said it has decided not to make it available to its customers as it wants to determine demand for the product.

Talks are ongoing with Meteor and 3.

Customers will be charged around 50 cent for text messages, between €2 and €3 per minute for a call, and €1 and €2 for smart phone email sessions, depending on your operator.

A charge will also be levied to receive a call, but not a text message.

A maximum of six people will be allowed to make calls at a time, although this is likely to increase.

Mr O'Leary declined to say how much Ryanair will make from the service, but claimed it was a small chunk compared to the slice taken by OnAir and the mobile phone operators.

But he admitted it would take a six-figure sum to fit out each aircraft with the technology.

Around 50 aircraft will be upgraded over the six-month trial period, with all 170 planes expected to be kitted out within 18 months.

'If for some remarkable reason it proves to be very unsuccessful, then we may take a decision not to continue the roll out programme,' Mr O'Leary said.

'But I think everywhere else in the world where people have been given the facility to use their mobile phones and Blackberrys it has proven to be remarkably successful.'

The service will only be switched on after take-off and disconnected before landing, to avoid the technology interfering with communications between the plane and ground control.

It can also be knocked off mid-air if required, although the airline stressed the technology was safe to use in-flight.

[muppet]

My question is based on the fact that the mobile phone ouldcause interference with the onboard radio signals used by the plane and so,because it is in the same frequency range as Broadband could I cause trouble, although if that were the case why don't adjacent transmitters for mobile phone signals or broadband that are stronger than my little tranny cause trouble if that were the case. 

Bud you would really have to talk to an engineer for the definitive answer but I understand the main problem was:

a) in the past with less insulated older technology mobiles and newer generation fly be wire computer controlled aircraft.
b) the fact that it took place inside a metal tube and was possibly amplified.
c) while individual devices could be checked for their effect on an aircraft, that the random cocktail of devices on any given flight could create something that hadn't ever been tested for before and therefore no one could be certain of it's safety.   

I would guess these days though what you suggest would have no impact. Add to that the fact that 'fly by wire' is irrelevent in the hanger or anywhere else on the ground, other than at takeoff and landing, I wouldn't worry about it.

[Hardy]

Jayz lads I was only trying to make a bad pun about Blackberries and jam.

Bud, I wouldn't trust any info I'd get from state employees (if that's what they are), so no point in asking the lads in the tower. They either don't give a shite or they'll give you the easy answer which is "no - you can't do that". No comeback on them then, if anything bad happens.

I once found out my passport was out of date  about four hours before I had to go to Holland. I decided to ask someone in officialdom whether I actually needed a passport to go to Holland. So I rang Cork Airport, because it was local, like, asked for the immigration control lads, and asked the fella there what was the story about the requirement for passports for travel between EU countries.  His answer - "Yerra, take yer chance".