Magennis's Bar now changed its name to Ronnie Drew's

[Evil Genius]

Here is what you posted when you introduced the McCartney family to this thread:
"What controversy? Don't tell me, more manufactured outrage from the McCartney family? I expect Suzanne Breen will have a two page 'exclusive' in this Sunday's Tribune and the McCartney's to be picketing the pub for no reason other than they think it'll somehow bring "justice for Robert". Life moves on, get over it..."
I consider that to demonstrate a distinct lack of sympathy for their plight, so see no need to withdraw that remark.
Neither do I see any personal abuse in what I posted; if you want to express your personal opinions on this Board, do not whinge when others (myself, Jim Murphy, Minder even) point out the inconsistency and hypocrisy contained therein.

Eg you have described me as "SF's most faithful parrot on this Board" and then went on draw a link to me and Thomas Begley. Considering that you haven't even attempted to address any of my posts directly or even address the topic of the thread, I see that as personal abuse and I would like you to withdraw all of the remarks.

OK, for "SF's most faithful parrot on this Board", I will substitute that you are "a consistently enthusiastic proponent of SF's policies". That OK?
And as such, I linked you to that party's President and most prominent figure, Gerry Adams, who has had a lot to say on the subject e.g. of the McCartney family, whom you introduced to this thread.
Thereafter, I linked Adams to Begley, not you.
Try to keep up.

[The Watcher Pat]

My mate from work used to drink in it, he wasn't there that night..He says that the toilets hold about 3-4 people at the most but that between 20-30 people have claimed to have been in them!

[Donagh]

Here is what you posted when you introduced the McCartney family to this thread:
"What controversy? Don't tell me, more manufactured outrage from the McCartney family? I expect Suzanne Breen will have a two page 'exclusive' in this Sunday's Tribune and the McCartney's to be picketing the pub for no reason other than they think it'll somehow bring "justice for Robert". Life moves on, get over it..."
I consider that to demonstrate a distinct lack of sympathy for their plight, so see no need to withdraw that remark.
Neither do I see any personal abuse in what I posted; if you want to express your personal opinions on this Board, do not whinge when others (myself, Jim Murphy, Minder even) point out the inconsistency and hypocrisy contained therein.

Eg you have described me as "SF's most faithful parrot on this Board" and then went on draw a link to me and Thomas Begley. Considering that you haven't even attempted to address any of my posts directly or even address the topic of the thread, I see that as personal abuse and I would like you to withdraw all of the remarks.

OK, for "SF's most faithful parrot on this Board", I will substitute that you are "a consistently enthusiastic proponent of SF's policies". That OK?
And as such, I linked you to that party's President and most prominent figure, Gerry Adams, who has had a lot to say on the subject e.g. of the McCartney family, whom you introduced to this thread.
Thereafter, I linked Adams to Begley, not you.
Try to keep up.

No that is not enough. The insinuations you make are obvious - either you back up your remarks or withdraw them.

[ardmhachaabu]

My mate from work used to drink in it, he wasn't there that night..He says that the toilets hold about 3-4 people at the most but that between 20-30 people have claimed to have been in them!

I used to go to it on Fridays after work, years before the McCartney murder.  If there were 3 men in the mens it was a tight squeeze, the ladies I am told is about the same.

[Evil Genius]

No that is not enough. The insinuations you make are obvious - either you back up your remarks or withdraw them.

What exactly is it you are complaining about?

In post #49, you highlighted my remark where I described you as a "parrot" who was "unsympathetic" to the plight of the McCartney family (whom you had introduced to the thread). I withdrew the "parrot" remark, but not that about the lack of sympathy, since imo you were self-evidently so.

Now you appear to be complaining about (unspecified) "insinuations". Am I to assume that this is a reference to some sort of link by me between you and Begley?
If so, then I had hoped I had made it perfectly clear in my most recent reply to you that I am not linking you to Begley. Indeed, I would guess that you have no more sympathy for the death of Thomas Begley than you have for that of Robert McCartney (though if I am incorrect about that, I'm sure you will put me right).

Anyhow, I was linking Adams, the most notable public figure in the Magennis's bar incident, to Begley, in an attempt to contrast his and his party's reaction to the death of a murdered man (McCartney) with that of a murderer (Begley).



P.S. Just so as everything is perfectly clear, neither am I linking you directly with Gerry Adams.

[Maroon Heaven]

so agan from you - loads of text, prob even somewhat well written
but not a jot of it relative or pertinent to the previous posts etc
if you have a vendetta against Donagh, why not take it elsewhere - pm for example ?
this fudging and clogging up the board with useless meaningless info serves no purpose that I can see...
just your whataboutery rubbish...

It is quite simple. Maroon Heaven opened a thread on the renaming of Maginnis's bar, with no personal comment, but inviting others to respond. Within 8 minutes, Donagh did so, introducing the McCartney family into the thread. He did not appear to be sympathetic to their plight. I pointed out the hypocrisy in his post, since the party he so clearly reveres, and whose line he so faithfully parrots, has a noted policy of not having "a hierarchy of victims".
I contrasted that party's response to the death of the murdered man (McCartney) and that of the mass murderer, Begley.
My point should have been clear enough, at least to those who want to take it on board.

In fairness I said I was not surprised with the controversay over the name. This has nothing to do with the McCartney murder. Even without that - you just wouldn't open a Bar with someone's name been used.

[Evil Genius]

In fairness I said I was not surprised with the controversay over the name. This has nothing to do with the McCartney murder. Even without that - you just wouldn't open a Bar with someone's name been used.

Indeed. Perhaps I shouldn't have allowed Donagh's introduction into the thread of Robert McCartney's murder etc, to deflect attention away from that point.

P.S. Does anyone know whether the late Mr. Drew ever had any connection with the bar specifically, or with the city generally? I mean, if his band had been called "The Belfastards" (or somesuch), I could understand...

[Donagh]

No that is not enough. The insinuations you make are obvious - either you back up your remarks or withdraw them.

What exactly is it you are complaining about?

In post #49, you highlighted my remark where I described you as a "parrot" who was "unsympathetic" to the plight of the McCartney family (whom you had introduced to the thread). I withdrew the "parrot" remark, but not that about the lack of sympathy, since imo you were self-evidently so.

Now you appear to be complaining about (unspecified) "insinuations". Am I to assume that this is a reference to some sort of link by me between you and Begley?
If so, then I had hoped I had made it perfectly clear in my most recent reply to you that I am not linking you to Begley. Indeed, I would guess that you have no more sympathy for the death of Thomas Begley than you have for that of Robert McCartney (though if I am incorrect about that, I'm sure you will put me right).

Anyhow, I was linking Adams, the most notable public figure in the Magennis's bar incident, to Begley, in an attempt to contrast his and his party's reaction to the death of a murdered man (McCartney) with that of a murderer (Begley).



P.S. Just so as everything is perfectly clear, neither am I linking you directly with Gerry Adams.

That's a load of bollocks as bad as anything I've seen on here since some dick connected the GAA with the Madrid bombings. If you are refusing to withdraw all of the remarks, the mods will have to deal with it.

[Evil Genius]

No that is not enough. The insinuations you make are obvious - either you back up your remarks or withdraw them.

What exactly is it you are complaining about?

In post #49, you highlighted my remark where I described you as a "parrot" who was "unsympathetic" to the plight of the McCartney family (whom you had introduced to the thread). I withdrew the "parrot" remark, but not that about the lack of sympathy, since imo you were self-evidently so.

Now you appear to be complaining about (unspecified) "insinuations". Am I to assume that this is a reference to some sort of link by me between you and Begley?
If so, then I had hoped I had made it perfectly clear in my most recent reply to you that I am not linking you to Begley. Indeed, I would guess that you have no more sympathy for the death of Thomas Begley than you have for that of Robert McCartney (though if I am incorrect about that, I'm sure you will put me right).

Anyhow, I was linking Adams, the most notable public figure in the Magennis's bar incident, to Begley, in an attempt to contrast his and his party's reaction to the death of a murdered man (McCartney) with that of a murderer (Begley).



P.S. Just so as everything is perfectly clear, neither am I linking you directly with Gerry Adams.

That's a load of bollocks as bad as anything I've seen on here since some dick connected the GAA with the Madrid bombings. If you are refusing to withdraw all of the remarks, the mods will have to deal with it.

Once again you are being (deliberately?) obtuse, when you require me to withdraw "all" of my remarks.

I have made it clear that I have withdrawn e.g. the "parrot" remark, but not the "lack of sympathy" [with the McCartney's] remark, since I consider this latter to be fair and accurate.

As for the rest, I have not associated you with Begley; rather, I noted that he was not known to be a SF supporter and opined that you likely have no more sympathy for his death than that of McCartney. If I am wrong on this latter point, please correct me and I will be happy to put the record straight.

As for my linking you with Gerry Adams, I have always assumed you are very sympathetic towards, and supportive of, the Party which he leads. If I am wrong about this, then feel free to disabuse me on that point, too. In the meantime, however, I will continue to assume that you are broadly in tune with his thoughts and actions, of which I demonstrated one i.e. pall bearer at the Begley funeral.

Of course, if you disapprove of that particular action by Adams, then you only have to say so, and I will withdraw that comment and apologise unreservedly.

[Minder]

Donagh you are coming across as the wounded soldier here, dont be so precious.

[pintsofguinness]

f**k me does anyone actually read EG's posts?
What has the Shankhill bombing got to do with anything?

[Lar Naparka]

f**k me does anyone actually read EG's posts?
What has the Shankhill bombing got to do with anything?

I certainly do pints.
For me, they are required reading, all of them, and even, if I don't share his opinions sometimes, I cannot or would not deny that that he presents his case extremely well.
Lynchbhoy, his nemesis, wrote:
so agan from you - loads of text, prob even somewhat well written

To me, that's giving credit where it is due to the fact that he can write extremely well.

Of course, he is inclined to lose his rag rather easily and when he resorts to trading insults, he is unmatched on this board or on any other one I am aware of.
I'm not too worried at times about his political observations; it's the down and dirty stuff I find entertaining.
IMO, he should be compulsory reading for all; especially those who regard full stops, capitals and such like in the same way a baby regards bath water.
But to answer your question, I think EG is making the point that Gerry Adams, leader of Sinn Fein, was a pall bearer at the funeral of Thomas Begley but expressed  markedly less sympathy with the family of Robert McCartney.
If there is any other inference that can be drawn from his recent posts, I'd be glad to have it explained to me.
With regard to the main topic, I don't see how a name change could possibly either help or hinder the efforts to bring the murderers of Robert McCartney to justice. It would be most unfair to try and stop the new owner doing what he can to promote his new business.
It's a pity that he didn't contact the Drew family first.

[Donagh]

Once again you are being (deliberately?) obtuse, when you require me to withdraw "all" of my remarks.

I have made it clear that I have withdrawn e.g. the "parrot" remark, but not the "lack of sympathy" [with the McCartney's] remark, since I consider this latter to be fair and accurate.

As for the rest, I have not associated you with Begley; rather, I noted that he was not known to be a SF supporter and opined that you likely have no more sympathy for his death than that of McCartney. If I am wrong on this latter point, please correct me and I will be happy to put the record straight.

As for my linking you with Gerry Adams, I have always assumed you are very sympathetic towards, and supportive of, the Party which he leads. If I am wrong about this, then feel free to disabuse me on that point, too. In the meantime, however, I will continue to assume that you are broadly in tune with his thoughts and actions, of which I demonstrated one i.e. pall bearer at the Begley funeral.

Of course, if you disapprove of that particular action by Adams, then you only have to say so, and I will withdraw that comment and apologise unreservedly.

I made a post about "controversy" over the renaming of a bar and correctly guessed it was something to do with the McCartneys. Nowhere did I comment on their right to campaign for 'justice' for their brother or express a lack of sympathy with their cause, though I may have implied that they are pissing people off with the method. Indeed if you look at my response to Jim, you will see that I would support them in their campaign. However, you then engaged your fingers before your brain by making posts which, lacking even in the basic courtesy of responding to me directly, went on to associate me with Sinn Fein, the IRA and the Shankill bomb. Now you have been asked to either back this up or withdraw all of the remarks by either deleting your posts or removing my name from them.

If you want to try to support your allegations, then you should post evidence:
-- that I am somehow associated with Sinn Fein,
-- that I support actions such as the Shankill bomb
-- of this "doubtless" reaction you say I had to the death of Thomas Begley
-- that I would somehow seek to deny the McCartney family justice in the matter of Robert McCartney.

If you come onto a public discussion forum to make these kind of allegations then the burden of proof is on you not me. I will not deny or condemn any person or group to please the likes of you.

[Tony Baloney]

Donagh is getting an unfair deal here. Robert McCartney's sisters did weigh into the controversy over the name so Donagh's comments were fair game. They should get on with their quest for justice if that's their aim but it's unfair to keep sullying the name (whatever it may be) of the bar when it's hard enough making a go of a business at the min.

[Lecale2]

Well?