Ard Mhacha v Muineacháin - Athletic Grounds - 08/03/09

[emainmacha]

Thanks Main, good to know someone likes your photos, Armagh City ones will know the two I picked out in crowd one being close relative of a player and other a taxi driver

[charlie stubbs]

The postives i can see coming out of today is that an armagh team with a very weak defence was able to be on the shoulder of a monaghan team almost at championship stength. i'll temper that by saying that my estimation of monaghan as championship contenders would be quite low.

The major stubling block with armagh is going to be along the line. they don't seem to be remotely near cool or calculating enough. few things i couldn't understand today... Why was Lavery left at midfield the whole game when he wasn't able to win any sort of ball and particularly not able to track the lumbering lennon? who thought it'd be a good idea to play a o'rourke full back and why was he not moved out when the half back line was clearly out of the game? why was stevie left at half forward when he couldn't get on the ball and certainly couldn't stey with mcmanus' runs?

The forward line as was there today has plenty of potential but didn't get enoguh ball. oover the 70 minutes we were outplayed in the middle third. why was m o'rourke always some distance to wher our kick outs were going when that is his forte - incidentally he had a shocker. clarke and kevin o'r were dangerous inside all day but for me henderson was hiding again for most of the game.

vernon is working hard and things didn't go his way but i cannot understand the lavery fascination. i don't see what he offers.

Is the current defence the worst to play national league football for armagh for 10 / 12 years? Martin and McClelland are so green its unreal and yet both are occupying central positions. both were poor but mcclelland in particular is miles off this standard. half backs are meant to be all things to all men. mark, tackle, cover, break out. mcclelland wins an odd dirty ball and thats it. Mallon needs a lot of game time as he looks rusty and moriarty is turning into a fouling machine.

a defence a defence, my kingdom for a defence!

thought mcclelland was ok sunday to be honest,would agree with you though mor was poor and though lavery coming back from injury i also have my reservations

[Armamike]

Bit of a curate's egg this game. Some very good scores laced with some bad passages of play. The game wasn't helped by the new rules and the stop start nature of it.  If these rules are passed for the summer, gaelic football won't be worth watching.

Armagh were very understrength so it's hard to be too critical but judging on the game yesterday some bad old habits die hard. The management have been dealt a bad hand with some many injuries and the Cross players annual trek to the AI.  But there are some things that need to be put right, regardless of the personnel playing.  Like playing Stevie McDonnell in your own half back line for instance for the first half.  Interesting role for Stevie that one. Or not giving any support to the man in possession. Lost count of the times in the first half that Ronan Clarke or Charlie Vernon had 2 men hanging off them, with very few options around them (btw what does Clarke have to do to get a free?). Backs never getting out in front of the man, or even getting tight enough. Finnian Moriarty is a typical example.  Too willing to sit in behind and wait for the forward to miscontrol or drop the ball, feeding off mistakes.  Ciaran McKeever was the only back willing to attack the ball, but Ciaran being Ciaran he got lined again, and cost Armagh the game.

Martin O'Rourke never ever learns unfortunately. He had a poor game yesterday - didn't get on the ball enough and it was his man i think, no. 5, who did a fair bit of damage going forward. But the really annoying side of his game stood out again, when he managed to lose the free that Armagh had just won (after his hospital pass to Vernon), due to his mouthin and afters with a Monaghan player. Keep the mouth shut Marty and just get on with it.  

Midfield was a problem. Vernon needs a strong fielder alongside him to take the pressure off, and let him do what he does best. Lavery won a few balls, but he's not mobile or aggressive enough for this level.

Kevin O'Rourke had a very good game up front - he's really starting to push for a place now. Ryan Henderson hasn't really pushed on since the Wexford game. Didn't get much supply of the ball but he struggled a bit.  He needs another good game shortly or his confidence may start to slip.

I wasn't expecting much going into the game but we could and should have got something out of this one, if for no other reason than for most of the game Monaghan seemed hell bent on kicking it away.  

[mackers]

Martin O'Rourke never ever learns unfortunately. He had a poor game yesterday - didn't get on the ball enough and it was his man i think, no. 5, who did a fair bit of damage going forward. But the really annoying side of his game stood out again, when he managed to lose the free that Armagh had just won (after his hospital pass to Vernon), due to his mouthin and afters with a Monaghan player. Keep the mouth shut Marty and just get on with it.  

Wouldn't argue with you regarding the mouthing but I thought he was supposed to be marking the no. 7 (Darren Hughes) who was playing really well and doing a lot of damage including landing a monster point in the first half. I was looking round to see where O'Rourke was and he was in the HB line, I saw him looking over to the line more than once shrugging his shoulders as if to say what was he supposed to do. It looked to me that he was under instructions to lie back in the defence, same sh1te as last year. Why not tackle the lad Hughes in his own HB line and stop the problem at source?

[corn02]

Martin O'Rourke never ever learns unfortunately. He had a poor game yesterday - didn't get on the ball enough and it was his man i think, no. 5, who did a fair bit of damage going forward. But the really annoying side of his game stood out again, when he managed to lose the free that Armagh had just won (after his hospital pass to Vernon), due to his mouthin and afters with a Monaghan player. Keep the mouth shut Marty and just get on with it.  

Wouldn't argue with you regarding the mouthing but I thought he was supposed to be marking the no. 7 (Darren Hughes) who was playing really well and doing a lot of damage including landing a monster point in the first half. I was looking round to see where O'Rourke was and he was in the HB line, I saw him looking over to the line more than once shrugging his shoulders as if to say what was he supposed to do. It looked to me that he was under instructions to lie back in the defence, same sh1te as last year. Why not tackle the lad Hughes in his own HB line and stop the problem at source?

Well spotted Mackers. I was waiting to see if anyone would cop on to the role he has been asked to play.

[Benny Barnaveld]

Is this not the role Martin O'Rourke always plays?
Unfortunately what he succeeds in doing alot of the time is turning the referee/opposition fans against us.

On his day he can do a lot of good things, namely winning ugly ball and making the odd dispossession. However to carry out this role successfully, you need a good engine to make sure of the dispossession and turn defense into attack. Which he just does not have.
For a half forward he does not ontribute a whole lotto scores, directly or otherwise.

[corn02]

Is this not the role Martin O'Rourke always plays?
Unfortunately what he succeeds in doing alot of the time is turning the referee/opposition fans against us.

On his day he can do a lot of good things, namely winning ugly ball and making the odd dispossession. However to carry out this role successfully, you need a good engine to make sure of the dispossession and turn defense into attack. Which he just does not have.
For a half forward he does not ontribute a whole lotto scores, directly or otherwise.

Marty may not contribute scoring wise, but to suggest he does have a good engine is crazy.

He is almostyt playing as a half-back for the entire 70.

[Benny Barnaveld]

Is this not the role Martin O'Rourke always plays?
Unfortunately what he succeeds in doing alot of the time is turning the referee/opposition fans against us.

On his day he can do a lot of good things, namely winning ugly ball and making the odd dispossession. However to carry out this role successfully, you need a good engine to make sure of the dispossession and turn defense into attack. Which he just does not have.
For a half forward he does not ontribute a whole lotto scores, directly or otherwise.

Marty may not contribute scoring wise, but to suggest he does have a good engine is crazy.

He is almostyt playing as a half-back for the entire 70.

If as you suggest he is playing as a half back for the entire match, then would we not be better playing another half back in his place?
Perhaps I was a little harsh on his fitness, what I meant to say is that to make this work he would need an exceptionally good engine.

[corn02]

Is this not the role Martin O'Rourke always plays?
Unfortunately what he succeeds in doing alot of the time is turning the referee/opposition fans against us.

On his day he can do a lot of good things, namely winning ugly ball and making the odd dispossession. However to carry out this role successfully, you need a good engine to make sure of the dispossession and turn defense into attack. Which he just does not have.
For a half forward he does not ontribute a whole lotto scores, directly or otherwise.

Marty may not contribute scoring wise, but to suggest he does have a good engine is crazy.

He is almostyt playing as a half-back for the entire 70.

If as you suggest he is playing as a half back for the entire match, then would we not be better playing another half back in his place?
Perhaps I was a little harsh on his fitness, what I meant to say is that to make this work he would need an exceptionally good engine.

Agreed on both counts, but it is not Marty's call.

[Candyman]

Ha ha very good...

[Armamike]

Martin O'Rourke never ever learns unfortunately. He had a poor game yesterday - didn't get on the ball enough and it was his man i think, no. 5, who did a fair bit of damage going forward. But the really annoying side of his game stood out again, when he managed to lose the free that Armagh had just won (after his hospital pass to Vernon), due to his mouthin and afters with a Monaghan player. Keep the mouth shut Marty and just get on with it.  

Wouldn't argue with you regarding the mouthing but I thought he was supposed to be marking the no. 7 (Darren Hughes) who was playing really well and doing a lot of damage including landing a monster point in the first half. I was looking round to see where O'Rourke was and he was in the HB line, I saw him looking over to the line more than once shrugging his shoulders as if to say what was he supposed to do. It looked to me that he was under instructions to lie back in the defence, same sh1te as last year. Why not tackle the lad Hughes in his own HB line and stop the problem at source?

You are probably right, could well be a management call for him to drop back but there were a few occasions when the half back got by him a bit too easily for my liking. Monaghan were able to build attack after attack from the backline with not enough pressurising from the forwards. Same story as last year from the Wexford game in the quarter final. It's worrying that lessons haven't been learned. 

[corn02]

Ha ha very good...

Just an x?

[Lamh Dhearg Alba]

He was back playing club football this time last year too, but went on to not make much of an impact in the summer. McCullough is a very capable CHF, Tyrone won an AI last year with him in that position for the most part of the summer. Wouldn't be asking any Tyronies, they continue to display a distinct inability to say anything critical about any of their players, ever.

Watch the last 20 minutes of the All-Ireland Final, McGuigan was involved at the start of pretty much every point Tyrone scored at the business end of the match. His vision will never be what it was and as such he wont be the same player but he is still a class act and can still have a huge influence on games.

[Main Street]

Woods will suit Martin I think

Roasted!

Indeed he was. I've been negative about him in the past so I tried to display a bit of optimism before this game. Woods was too clever and too fast over the first 5 yards for him. This game illustrated why I previously had doubts about Martin, he is very strong and good under the high ball but he has zero pace and very poor positional sense (unlike Francie, who shares his lack of pace).

Woods is very skillful and strong, but when he's beating your man on speed at this time of the year, you've got a problem!

Looks like the mismatch was total.

[Joxer]

Is this not the role Martin O'Rourke always plays?
Unfortunately what he succeeds in doing alot of the time is turning the referee/opposition fans against us.

On his day he can do a lot of good things, namely winning ugly ball and making the odd dispossession. However to carry out this role successfully, you need a good engine to make sure of the dispossession and turn defense into attack. Which he just does not have.
For a half forward he does not ontribute a whole lotto scores, directly or otherwise.

Who gives a f**k what oppositions fans says?