Lions 2009 thread

[Hound]

I think at the moment the back row would be Croft-MWilliams-Heaslip. Wallace hasnt been good, but will get another chance to show his stuff - I'd prefer him to Williams, but he needs to show it on the pitch. The other option would be Croft and Ferris, though not sure who'd be the 7. They'd both wanna be well ahead of the Williams and Wallace for that to happen.

I'd be surprised if O'Callaghan even makes the bench. I'd rate him behind Jones and Hines. But a big game on Saturday could change that.

Jones v O'Gara is still too tight to call. Given Philips is nailed on for 9, that gives Jones a slight advanatage.

[Joxer]

From watching the game last night,  you can see the team are alot better organised than they were for that fiasco of a tour to New Zealand.  I liked the looked of the second row last night.  Thought they all were impressive.  They were however, in the first half poor in the breakdown and give a way 3 or 4 bad penaities.  Phillips was impressive at scrum half and I liked the look of Monye at 11.  I think with another good, solid performance, if he gets one,  could have that jersey for the first test.  In the backs,  Roberts, BOD and Bowe have positions nailed on unless something drastic happens.  Fitzgerald et al are really going to have to step their game up.  Thought Jones at out half was very immressive and as said here already,  linked very well with BOD and Roberts.  Looking at the first test,  the team I would go for:

1 . Jenkins
2 . Mears
3. Vickery
4. Wyn-Jones
5. O'Connell
6.Croft
7.Williams
8.Heaslip
9.Phillips
10.Jones
11.Williams
12.Roberts
13.O'Driscoll
14.Bowe
15.Byrne

[GaillimhIarthair]

Good performance from the Lions last night however the oppossition were piss poor.  Some stand out performances from the likes of Bowe, Roberts and Bod and the test team seems to be taking a bit of shape.  Based on what I have seen so far, my test team would be along the following lines -  

Byrne
Bowe
BOD
Roberts
AN Other (Shane Williams is out of form and I dont think Monye is up to it at this level yet)
Jones
Phillips
Jenkins
AN Other but Mears seems to be at the head of the queue right now.  The Boks will kill him  
Murray
AWJ but Hines or DOC are not too far away.  Big weekend coming up for DOC.
POC
Ferris because I'm not yet convinced by Croft.  
Wallace/Williams
Heaslip

[Donnellys Hollow]

British & Irish Lions (vs Vodacom Free State Cheetahs)
15. Lee Byrne (Ospreys / Wales)
14. Leigh Halfpenny (Cardiff Blues / Wales)
13. Keith Earls (Munster / Ireland)
12. Luke Fitzgerald (Leinster / Ireland)
11. Shane Williams (Ospreys / Wales)
10. James Hook (Ospreys / Wales)
9.   Harry Ellis (Leicester Tigers / England)
8.  Andy Powell (Cardiff Blues / Wales)
7.  Joe Worsley (London Wasps / England)
6.  Stephen Ferris (Ulster / Ireland)
5.  Paul O'Connell (Munster / Ireland – Captain)
4.  Donncha O'Callaghan (Munster / Ireland)
3.  Euan Murray (Northampton Saints / Scotland)
2.  Ross Ford (Edinburgh / Scotland)
1.  Andrew Sheridan (Sale Sharks / England)
Replacements
16. Matthew Rees (Scarlets / Wales)
17. Adam Jones (Ospreys / Wales)
18. Simon Shaw (London Wasps / England)
19. Nathan Hines (Perpignan / Scotland)
20. Gordon D'Arcy (Leinster / Ireland)
21. Ronan O'Gara (Munster / Ireland)
22. Mike Blair (Edinburgh / Scotland)

Good to see Earls getting another chance. He had a nightmare last Saturday and he needs to bounce back. I'd say Luke Fitzgerald will be fairly pissed off to find himself playing at inside centre. Hard to see him forcing his way onto the test team if that's where McGeechan sees him.

A lot of these guys will need to put in big performances after Wednesday's result.

[ludermor]

Glad to see Earls back in again, hopefully he can put in a stormer. I couldnt bellieve reading the papers today a lot were saying D'Arcy was in line to start! The lad is just off a plane and will he have had even 1 training session? It will surely take him time to blend in.
Will be interesting to see how Hook plays at 10 and Williams could play himself completely out of the picture if he doesnt perform

[Capt Pat]

The midfield looks very lightweight for a game in South Africa. There is no back row sub of any sort. O'Callaghan played blindside before, surely Williams should have been on the bench.

[tyroneboi]

The midfield looks very lightweight for a game in South Africa. There is no back row sub of any sort. O'Callaghan played blindside before, surely Williams should have been on the bench.

As far as I'm aware M Williams currently has a bit of a shoulder problem so i would imagine that it is just precautionary that he isn't a replacement. Would like to see Fitzgerald getting at least a game at 11 to show what he can do because i think thats the only spot up for grabs at this moment in time for the test team. Shane Williams is still favourite for that spot and I really expect a big performance from him tomorrow.

[Gnevin]

Lions on fire 17-0 , 17 minutes in 2 Irish trys. Earls and Ferris .

[Gnevin]

Half time Lions have fallen part during a sin binning. Let in 2 trys . O'Connell going up the middle too much.

[Gnevin]

Lion 26-24. Shocking 60 minutes from the Lions

[Donnellys Hollow]

The Lions were very lucky yesterday. I hope they can keep the momentum up and keep winning though. I get the impression reading between the lines from some of the English hacks that they are dying to get an opportunity to put the boot into this Lions team because the tour party is dominated by Wales and Ireland

[Yes I Would]

Read that plonker Stephen Jones in the Sunday Times and you'll see about putting the boot in to the Irish lads.

[Donnellys Hollow]

Read that plonker Stephen Jones in the Sunday Times and you'll see about putting the boot in to the Irish lads.

Jones is Welsh though - not that you'd know that from reading him! There'll be plenty of them English hacks bleating on about Armitage, Haskell and even Cipriani if the Lions get walloped in one of the tests.

[Aghdavoyle]

Stephen Jones:

Here is a tale of two lifting units, the South African and the Irish. When Ireland lift Paul O'Connell in the lineout, it is a fairly statuesque affair. It is a deep, long and rather slow hoist, which usually puts O'Connell up successfully for the lineout catch, sometimes after a little bit of interchanging in the Irish line.

The South African operation is completely different. There is no subterfuge, no trickery. The ball is thrown high and rapidly above Victor Matfield and the lifting unit has him up there with breathtaking speed, almost as if a rocket is taking off. Matfield himself firmly believes that this pace of lift, if everyone does their job properly, is all you ever need for a successful lineout.

And the difference in these two operations is precisely why O'Connell is paired with Alun-Wyn Jones for the Lions' match against the Sharks in Durban on Wednesday.

The Lions can harp all they want about trying different combinations, but if they are to thrive on their own throw, and especially if they are to menace the dominating South African lineout, they have to find someone they can lift rapidly and high against Matfield. On this tour so far, Alun-Wyn is the only contender and, if the Lions are going to play O'Connell in the middle, they will sacrifice challenging the South African lineout and, instead, will have to pile into the first breakdown to stop the Springbok flow.

The tall Welsh lock has been by a mile the most athletic of the second row exponents on this tour to date. His performance will be monitored closely on Wednesday and, as I said the other day, the full horror of the timescale of this operation has now struck home. This tour is in its infancy and yet the Lions are already making massive decisions for the Test series, not all of them based on too much evidence.

The lifting conundrum also profoundly affects Tom Croft and Stephen Ferris. If the Lions are to station O'Connell in the middle, then Croft is a racing certainty to play in the Test series. The idea that the Lions would take on the brilliant South African operation with a lineout consisting of, say, Nathan Hines, O'Connell and Ferris is really the stuff of nightmares, albeit that those three forwards are genuinely great players in different areas.

If O'Connell plays in the middle, then Croft must play behind him. On Wednesday, we will all be holding our breath as the Lions lineout lines out.

Where tourists fear to tread

It is desperately hard to be in South Africa and not be American about living life here. We all know that the good old Americans tend to cancel their trips to the United Kingdom or anywhere else in the world in the event of someone firing a water pistol in anger at their intended destination, let alone staging a terrorist attack. But we would all rather retain our property and our life and limb.

It is not in any way meant to demean this magnificent country, the progress of the Rainbow Nation or what seems to me a substantial increase in national morale to say that this is an edgy place.

The problem is that without extensive and sustained local knowledge it is difficult for the visitor to be absolutely certain what is safe to do and where is safe to do it.

On Saturday in Bloemfontein, we received a ringing restaurant recommendation from one of the delightful local media ladies. She pointed the restaurant out, roughly two blocks away from where we were standing, in the late evening. As we set off, however, she became agitated. "Please do not walk it," she said of a journey on foot that would have taken about five minutes. We took her advice and caught a taxi and, in that very same area later, a British tourist was mugged near some traffic lights.

Even now in Durban, with its glamorous beachfront and armed with memories of a daylight mugging in 1995 perpetrated on a colleague on the very same beach, it is again difficult to be sanguine, difficult to be certain where to walk and where to take a taxi. Again, I'm sorry if it sounds vaguely American.

We have also read that during the football World Cup next year all will be well since there will be thousands of police patrolling the areas where the games are held. That all sounds fine, but you do wonder why on earth those police are not actually out and about at present, tackling the awesome nature of South Africa's crime problem.

This is not in any way to insult our wonderful hosts, nor is it in any way intended to frighten the thousands of Lions supporters who are about to pack to come here. If you are sensible, you will be fine. But it is an enormous frustration that we cannot mix entirely with this vibrant land, that as darkness begins to fall we feel hemmed in to our hotels with their patrolled grounds and obliged to hang around the malls of shops and restaurants. There is a magnificent country out there, if only we knew definitively how to stay safe in it.

The Stephen Jones debate

Joe Worsley may not be a natural 7 but he tackles bloody hard and is in the right place at the right time. That's more than could be said for Andy Powell who was a disgrace - how he and Harry Ellis ever made the tour is a joke. On the few occasions the pack did turn the ball back quickly on Saturday, it was Ellis who then slowed it down. A bit like O'Leary in the Six Nations. Still, at least we had big O'Connell to galvanise the team. Are we really so sure that Geech is a rugby genius who makes inspired selections? By the way, if Hook can look good behind that pack, that scrum half and in front of those three quarters, I'd say we have a genuine contender for Jones's 10 shirt. Jonathan Washington

SJ: Last point first, Jonathan: the criminally short nature of this tour means that Hook will probably not get the chance to play in a big match alongside Jamie Roberts and O'Driscoll to see what he can do and there are many other worthwhile experiments that Geech does not have the time to make. Totally agreed about Joe - I think he was just about man of the match against the Cheetahs and to blame him for the breakdown problems was a nonsense.

I wondered whether the possibility of O'Connell not being picked for the Tests had crossed your mind. He has been looking way off his best form in his appearances so far and Alun-Wyn Jones, Nathan Hines and Simon Shaw look in better nick at the moment. A strong case for including Croft could be made too, as it would allow a very strong back row of Ferris, Heaslip and Williams to be selected without having to sacrifice Croft's pace and skills. It certainly wouldn't be the first time a Lions skipper has been under pressure for his Test place. I recall Finlay Calder's back row spot being under huge pressure from the English contingent of Andy Robinson and Dean Richards in 1989 and he came back in fine style to answer his critics. There is clearly still time (not a lot, though) for O'Connell to regain his form but I just wonder whether this could be the big story in the coming fortnight. Henry Crane, North Ferriby

SJ: It has crossed my mind around 200 times and it crossed the dinner table I was at last night in Durban from all six of the diners. No one is saying that he is not a fine captain but there are serious question marks as to whether he is dynamic enough in the loose and athletic enough in the lineout. This one will run and run.

Isn't it time to ditch the cuddly toy Lenny Lion mascot? It's impossible to lead a team out looking dignified, let alone fearsome, with that under your arm. What about a man in a lion costume to wind up the opposition supporters from the sidelines. Austin Healey could do it. Morris Carpenter, Accra, Ghana

SJ: I have asked Austin and for the right fee he is prepared to do it. Actually, I quite like the Lion. I am sure that this one they have for 2009 was the Cuddly Toy on Brucie's Generation Game in around 1987.

Well done on leading the call for more penalties at scrum time. Pity it had to be the serial cheat Wayne Barnes who enforced it. It's nice to see the Lions putting their energy into whining about something other than spear tackles! Poncey Malherber, Cape Town

SJ: Great name, doggerel view.

After the Cheetahs game surely Adam Powell, Shane Williams and Luke Fitzgerald have shown that they will not make the Lions Test team. Powell should not even have been selected for the tour and showed he is a one trick, selfish pony. Ryan Jones would have offered so much more. Man of the match was Harry Ellis who did nothing wrong and an awful lot right. Tony, Biarritz

SJ: It wasn't the best for those three, although I think we could suspend the verdict on Shane till he has a midfield inside him. Fitzgerald is clearly able and it was hard for him that his first game in the centre was not alongside someone like Riki Flutey or Jamie Roberts.

With regard to empty stadiums, what the authorities could do is have a cut-off date for sailable tickets, say one week before the game, then they could sell the unsold tickets to all the schools around the park for a nominal fee, or give them away. Imagine all those school children getting involved with rugby. Ian Hoare, Forest of Dean

SJ: It is amazing what a good idea that is, Ian, and how rarely rugby authorities act on good ideas.

I understand that there was a requirement by the Lions that 22 per cent of the tickets were allocated to them. What I hear is that very few have travelled here to SA because of the recession or possibly a poor team. Perhaps we should make more tickets available to locals and not reserve them for UK people who don't come. Maybe the UK rugby supporters no longer believe in the Lions. Ken MacGregor

SJ: Ken, that is totally wrong in fact and logic. The shortfall is totally down to the lack of local support here. Let's see what happens in Durban on Wednesday.

I've got an idea about how to put more bums on seats - try providing an opposition with a better record against southern hemisphere teams since 1977 than the one whose statistics read: played 27, won 8, drawn 1. Scottie, Auckland

SJ: How good to have a view from the land of the long, black cloud, the tiny stadiums and the rows of empty seats in the stands.

In Friday's Rolling Maul you suggested that Ugo Monye is the best finisher since Rory Underwood. My concern is your case of rugby amnesia since Rory retired. Jason Robinson is the one who stands out for me - surely you agree that he was one of the best finishers (in both codes). Liam, Keele

SJ: Probably right, Jason was a great all-round runner and finished some great tries, sometimes almost uncannily. Our Ugo has got something, however, and I hope we see it in the next few weeks.

[Donnellys Hollow]

Stephen Jones:

When Ireland lift Paul O'Connell in the lineout, it is a fairly statuesque affair. It is a deep, long and rather slow hoist, which usually puts O'Connell up successfully for the lineout catch, sometimes after a little bit of interchanging in the Irish line.

And the difference in these two operations is precisely why O'Connell is paired with Alun-Wyn Jones for the Lions' match against the Sharks in Durban on Wednesday.

The Lions can harp all they want about trying different combinations, but if they are to thrive on their own throw, and especially if they are to menace the dominating South African lineout, they have to find someone they can lift rapidly and high against Matfield. On this tour so far, Alun-Wyn is the only contender and, if the Lions are going to play O'Connell in the middle, they will sacrifice challenging the South African lineout and, instead, will have to pile into the first breakdown to stop the Springbok flow.

The tall Welsh lock has been by a mile the most athletic of the second row exponents on this tour to date. His performance will be monitored closely on Wednesday and, as I said the other day, the full horror of the timescale of this operation has now struck home. This tour is in its infancy and yet the Lions are already making massive decisions for the Test series, not all of them based on too much evidence.

The lifting conundrum also profoundly affects Tom Croft and Stephen Ferris. If the Lions are to station O'Connell in the middle, then Croft is a racing certainty to play in the Test series. The idea that the Lions would take on the brilliant South African operation with a lineout consisting of, say, Nathan Hines, O'Connell and Ferris is really the stuff of nightmares, albeit that those three forwards are genuinely great players in different areas.

I wondered whether the possibility of O'Connell not being picked for the Tests had crossed your mind. He has been looking way off his best form in his appearances so far and Alun-Wyn Jones, Nathan Hines and Simon Shaw look in better nick at the moment. A strong case for including Croft could be made too, as it would allow a very strong back row of Ferris, Heaslip and Williams to be selected without having to sacrifice Croft's pace and skills. It certainly wouldn't be the first time a Lions skipper has been under pressure for his Test place. I recall Finlay Calder's back row spot being under huge pressure from the English contingent of Andy Robinson and Dean Richards in 1989 and he came back in fine style to answer his critics. There is clearly still time (not a lot, though) for O'Connell to regain his form but I just wonder whether this could be the big story in the coming fortnight. Henry Crane, North Ferriby

SJ: It has crossed my mind around 200 times and it crossed the dinner table I was at last night in Durban from all six of the diners. No one is saying that he is not a fine captain but there are serious question marks as to whether he is dynamic enough in the loose and athletic enough in the lineout. This one will run and run.

Jones is a complete tool. O'Connell is not athletic enough in the lineout? The guy is probably the best defensive lineout operator in the world. Did he not see the job that O'Connell did on the Welsh lineout in Cardiff, including Wyn-Jones. Fair enough, he doesn't have the human forklift in the Bull Hayes with him in South Africa but to suggest dropping O'Connell for a lump like Shaw or Hines is lunacy.

I've always thought his articles were a piss take and a wind up but I'm beginning to think he actually believes the rubbish he writes.