The Southern "Irish"

[Myles Na G.]

By widening what it means to be Irish, so that people who don't fit into the Catholic / Gaelic / nationalist bracket can also see their own ethnicity included in the definition.

The President of the Republic recently said Irish people can be British and Irish ie the two are not exclusive. The problem is that the dominant "Irish" and especially on here iis as you identify that Gaelic Irish = Irish and anything else is not Irish.

Pintsofguinness asks what part of unionist culture should be included?  That demonstrates clearly the position.  In my view all Irish people and their cultures are Irish, some just don't see themselves or their future as part of a republican Ireland/Irishness. 

I agree with that completely. I also agree that, at the moment, the Irish people are divided about how they see future constitutional arrangements on the island. My view is that the onus is on natiionalism, as the bloc of Irish people wanting change, to conviince those Irish people who are happy with the link with Britain, that their interests might be better served in an independent unitary state. That isn't going to happen anytime soon, but it won't happen at all unless nationalists start to see the protestant / British community as genuinely Irish, rather than as 'themmuns'.

[carribbear]

Myles - How about the protestant/british community actually declaring themselves irish. Problem solved.

[Myles Na G.]

Myles - How about the protestant/british community actually declaring themselves irish. Problem solved.

From Roger's post:
'The problem is that the dominant "Irish" and especially on here iis as you identify that Gaelic Irish = Irish and anything else is not Irish.'
That's why some people have a problem saying 'I'm Irish'.

[Roger]

Myles - How about the protestant/british community actually declaring themselves irish. Problem solved.

I declare that I am indeed Irish.  I am every bit as Irish as any other man who cares to declare himself Irish. 

[carribbear]

Myles - How about the protestant/british community actually declaring themselves irish. Problem solved.

I declare that I am indeed Irish.  I am every bit as Irish as any other man who cares to declare himself Irish. 

That's excellent.
Altogether now....

Sinne Fianna Fáil, Atá fé gheall ag Éirinn....... 

[Spirit of 94]

Myles - How about the protestant/british community actually declaring themselves irish. Problem solved.

I declare that I am indeed Irish.  I am every bit as Irish as any other man who cares to declare himself Irish. 

That's excellent.
Altogether now....

Sinne Fianna Fáil, Atá fé gheall ag Éirinn....... 

[Roger]

Very good 

Sadly your light-hearted comments are the simplistic and retarded view of what Irish means for many many people in Ireland. This simply means that Ireland will never be united on an all-island state basis in our life-times, I'm happy with that.  Keep her lit.

[armaghniac]

I am every bit as Irish as any other man who cares to declare himself Irish. 

Great. Do you take seriously your obligations as a member of the Irish people?

[Roger]

I am every bit as Irish as any other man who cares to declare himself Irish. 

Great. Do you take seriously your obligations as a member of the Irish people?

What obligations do I and other Irishmen have?

[Myles Na G.]

This should be interesting...

[BallyhaiseMan]

learning the words of
Amhran na bhFiann
getting a tricolour tattooed on your arse.
start listening to the wolfe tones.
join your nearest GAA Club.

what have i missed lads?

[Zapatista]

I agree with that completely. I also agree that, at the moment, the Irish people are divided about how they see future constitutional arrangements on the island. My view is that the onus is on natiionalism, as the bloc of Irish people wanting change, to conviince those Irish people who are happy with the link with Britain, that their interests might be better served in an independent unitary state. That isn't going to happen anytime soon, but it won't happen at all unless nationalists start to see the protestant / British community as genuinely Irish, rather than as 'themmuns'.

So basically you are saying it is up to the majority to convince the minority before change happens as the minority got there first?

I do agree with most of what you say in that anyone who wants to be Irsih can be and anyone who doesn't shouldn't have to be. Unfortunately the state decides which you are. The idea that it boils down to identity is one of the greatest bluffs of all time. The fact is that any nation which treats all it's citizens as equally as possible does not experience conflict or division on ethnic, religious or race grounds. It's when you start treating people like crap and have class systems based along these lines you get problems.

[magickingdom]

Myles - How about the protestant/british community actually declaring themselves irish. Problem solved.

I declare that I am indeed Irish.  I am every bit as Irish as any other man who cares to declare himself Irish. 

absolutely right

[pintsofguinness]

uncertain sense of its own Irishness, an uncertain sense of its own place on this island.

That's something for themselves to work out.

Up to a point, I agree. But if nationalists are serious about a unitary state, then surely it's in our interests to help the process along?

How?

By widening what it means to be Irish, so that people who don't fit into the Catholic / Gaelic / nationalist bracket can also see their own ethnicity included in the definition.

Myles, lets go back because you're clouding the issue. 
You said, I've highlighted, that we should widen what it means to be Irish:
You also said:

at the moment, the definition carries with it the assumption that at the moment of birth you were handed a hurley, a rosary and a fainne pin.

So I'm asking YOU what do we need to include in the definition of Irishness that would make unionists fit in?

[BallyhaiseMan]

The Question i have is, Who exactly tells Unionists that they arent as irish as the rest of us just because they have a british identity???
Is it a case of Unionists listening to the filth from the likes of Republican Sinn Fein and the 32 County Council Committe or whatever the Continuity IRA are calling themselves these days,and believing that all their fellow irish people on the island outwith their own community thinks likewise??

Even that well known friend to Unionism Gerry Adams has in the past said he believes Unionists are as irish as he is, and he considers them fellow countrymen.