The Southern "Irish"

[pintsofguinness]

uncertain sense of its own Irishness, an uncertain sense of its own place on this island.

That's something for themselves to work out.

[Myles Na G.]

uncertain sense of its own Irishness, an uncertain sense of its own place on this island.

That's something for themselves to work out.

Up to a point, I agree. But if nationalists are serious about a unitary state, then surely it's in our interests to help the process along?

[pintsofguinness]

uncertain sense of its own Irishness, an uncertain sense of its own place on this island.

That's something for themselves to work out.

Up to a point, I agree. But if nationalists are serious about a unitary state, then surely it's in our interests to help the process along?

How?

[Myles Na G.]

uncertain sense of its own Irishness, an uncertain sense of its own place on this island.

That's something for themselves to work out.

Up to a point, I agree. But if nationalists are serious about a unitary state, then surely it's in our interests to help the process along?

How?

By widening what it means to be Irish, so that people who don't fit into the Catholic / Gaelic / nationalist bracket can also see their own ethnicity included in the definition.

[pintsofguinness]

By widening what it means to be Irish, so that people who don't fit into the Catholic / Gaelic / nationalist bracket can also see their own ethnicity included in the definition.

So what parts of unionist "culture" should be included?

[carribbear]

By widening what it means to be Irish, so that people who don't fit into the Catholic / Gaelic / nationalist bracket can also see their own ethnicity included in the definition.

So what parts of unionist "culture" should be included?

Twelfth bonfires and drug selling

[Myles Na G.]

By widening what it means to be Irish, so that people who don't fit into the Catholic / Gaelic / nationalist bracket can also see their own ethnicity included in the definition.

So what parts of unionist "culture" should be included?

20% of the citizens of this island see themselves as British, to a greater or lesser extent. The definition of Irish, therefore, needs to encompass this. People should be able to say they're British-Irish, or Chinese-Irish, or Polish-Irish or whatever, in exactly the same way as you hear people describe themselves as Irish-American, or Afro-American, etc. Irish should mean simply people from the island of Ireland, or citizens of Ireland. At the moment, the definition carries with it the assumption that at the moment of birth you were handed a hurley, a rosary and a fainne pin.

[Myles Na G.]

By widening what it means to be Irish, so that people who don't fit into the Catholic / Gaelic / nationalist bracket can also see their own ethnicity included in the definition.

So what parts of unionist "culture" should be included?

Twelfth bonfires and drug selling

'Cos only prods light bonfires and deal drugs, yeah? 

[pintsofguinness]

Myles, what parts of unionist culture needs to be included?

[Myles Na G.]

Myles, what parts of unionist culture needs to be included?

You're talking about culture, I'm talking about an individual's sense of their own ethnicity. There can be an overlap in the two, but I'm not making a point about culture.

[pintsofguinness]

I dont understand, you said we'd to include unionists in our Irishness so tell me what part of unionism we can include with Irish dance, music, sports etc.

[Myles Na G.]

I dont understand, you said we'd to include unionists in our Irishness so tell me what part of unionism we can include with Irish dance, music, sports etc.

I'm saying that if someone wants to describe their nationality as British-Irish then they're still every bit a citizen of this land as the person who describes himself / herself as Irish. If the same person feels an attachment to that other island off our east coast, that person is still Irish. It doesn't have too much to do with dancing or sport. The Englishman who plays cricket and likes Morris Dancing is just as English as their neighbour who plays football and likes AC/DC. You don't have to like Aussie Rules to be a proper Australian. Why does one have to like Irish dancing to be properly Irish?

[mylestheslasher]

Cavan, Donegal and Monaghan are unique in Ireland. We listen to BBC/UK TV talk of "Ulster" news and weather and there is no mention of us. We were ignored when it came to funding and job  creation until very recently by our own government. Our counties always had a strong republican influence and I deduce from that a strong will to help "our people" in the north. This is possibly why our own government ignored us too. The majority of people from Cavan have always been concerned with what happened in the North and I think to generalise that all Southerner don't care or should be guilty or anything along those lines is insulting.

For the record I was once called a "Nordie Bastard" and told to go back to my own country in Co Mayo. I had to listen to Fermanagh fans sing songs about Free State Ba*tards in a championship match one year in Cavan. I didn't like being called a Nordie B*stard as I do consider myself a Northerner, as I am from the northern province of Ireland. I don't like being called a freestater because where I am from a Freestater is someone that done the deal on partition and I most certainly would not have voted for that.

Moral of the story is that generalising about anything is not a good idea. There are plenty of people pn both sides of the border that never gave a crap about anything.

[carribbear]

By widening what it means to be Irish, so that people who don't fit into the Catholic / Gaelic / nationalist bracket can also see their own ethnicity included in the definition.

So what parts of unionist "culture" should be included?

Twelfth bonfires and drug selling

'Cos only prods light bonfires and deal drugs, yeah? 

I did say twelfth bonfires. Can you read?

You're very touchy on this subject...anyone who didn't know better would think you're not a nationalist at all

[Roger]

By widening what it means to be Irish, so that people who don't fit into the Catholic / Gaelic / nationalist bracket can also see their own ethnicity included in the definition.

The President of the Republic recently said Irish people can be British and Irish ie the two are not exclusive. The problem is that the dominant "Irish" and especially on here iis as you identify that Gaelic Irish = Irish and anything else is not Irish.

Pintsofguinness asks what part of unionist culture should be included?  That demonstrates clearly the position.  In my view all Irish people and their cultures are Irish, some just don't see themselves or their future as part of a republican Ireland/Irishness.