The Southern "Irish"

[Chrisowc]

London included,

Did you get your passport stamped?

I followed 30 years worth of close relations who left rather than be a burden on the family.

Would bring a tear to the eye

[pintsofguinness]

Do you have anything grown up to say chris?
Or do you just suffer from the same attention disorder most unionists suffer from?

[Hardy]

So you're not alright because you have bad memories and the North is still far from a ideal society. OK thanks for answering. The republic is also far from an ideal society, so I'm not THAT alright, Jack.

I re-read your original post. Since you said "a lot of them" have an I'm alright Jack attitude, I accept it's capable of a more benign interpretation than I gave it, so I'll accept you didn't mean an insult to the people in general. I presume you'll confirm that.

Me? insult anyone? never!
By "I'm alright jack" I dont just mean towards the north hardy, would you not think that a lot of people today would have the attitude in general? It's like a greedy, selfish thing, I've a feeling the next few years might change that though.

I am bitter though about people in the south, all the trouble in the north and you've done f**k all to help us.  Virtually every taoiseach would get down and lick the hole of whatever prime minister there was.  Watch big Ian being welcomed with a round of appaluse tonight and Kenny lick his hole.  Would you disagree?

Well I see the debate has moved on  since I went to the dinner, but I should answer your question. Would I disagree with your statement about how little "we" did to help and the relationships between taoisigh and British PMs? I don't think I'd disagree that much, but I'm not sure what you'd have expected me to do that I didn't do or what you'd have expected Irish governments to do. Invade?

[Edit] By the way you were right in your prediction about the Late Late Show interview with Paisley and "Lady Eileen" (does that make him a lord?). Sick-making.

Good posts Juice.

[pintsofguinness]

Hardy, the Irish government speaking out for us would be nice.  Have they ever demanded anything? Demanded answers?
As I said earlier most taoiseach's rolled over and licked the hole of whatever primeminster was in office.
Look at the ass licking of Paisley last night ffs.

At the height of troubles when your politicans were going around looking for your votes have you ever asked him what they were going to do about the North? Did you ask them what they had to say on the latest Catholic killed by the brits or as a result of collusion?
We didnt expect invasion Hardy but some back up would be nice.  It's quite clear yous done f**k all and then you'd actually have the nerve to come on here and say to us to "move on", ask us how we were worse off than you.

[Zapatista]

I have called many in the 26 counties free-state b**tards and still maintain that opinion. The attitude shown by the majority toward the north was nothing short of ignorant and even to this day they still dont look on the irish of the six counties as being their fellow citizen. Thats what has always annoyed me about it.They were just lucky their land wasnt drawn within a border.

Totally agree with POG on this one - the "i'm alright jack" mentality was always there.

And when you point out to them that Pearse, Casement, Plunkett etc. all lived and died under the same British identity current northerners are labled with (within that border) they get angry and don't want to talk to you anymore.

BTW why is there a capital S in the title?

[pintsofguinness]

I have called many in the 26 counties free-state b**tards and still maintain that opinion. The attitude shown by the majority toward the north was nothing short of ignorant and even to this day they still dont look on the irish of the six counties as being their fellow citizen. Thats what has always annoyed me about it.They were just lucky their land wasnt drawn within a border.

Totally agree with POG on this one - the "i'm alright jack" mentality was always there.

And when you point out to them that Pearse, Casement, Plunkett etc. all lived and died under the same British identity current northerners are labled with (within that border) they get angry and don't want to talk to you anymore.

BTW why is there a capital S in the title?

Sure surely they have no feelings for Pearse, Casement and co, weren't they terrorists like Sands, Hughes etc?

Btw hardy, why did it take yous so long to do the decent thing and take the bodies of Kevin Barry and his comrades and give them a dignified burial? Was that any way to treat the people who give their lives for your freedom? 

[Main Street]

I for one would find being called a "Freestater" by a fellow Irishman offensive.A particularly nasty partitionist insult imo.Can only assume that it is a Northern Castle Catholic / uneducated saying as I cannot fathom any self respecting nationalist using it.

Why would you think it offensive, it is simply the term that was given to us by the oul wans and used in our house when growing up. The same people would have declared we were in "Gods country" as soon as we crossed the border so I don't think it was used as a term of abuse. I'm sure republicans from all 32 counties used the term up until youse got the 'not-quite-what-we-wanted-Republic' in 1949 and as we in the north were cut off at that point the term kind of continued in parallel. No offence intended, but you certainly don't live in the Republic my grandfather fought for, so until then it's the 'south' (small 's') but as I hate to offend my Donegal cousins, 'Freestate' (note not two words) fits the bill better.

It's not a term of abuse. It's a nothing term, which it appears only resonates inside the 6 counties. It might have had currency once, in another lifetime.

My first reaction to being called a free stater in the 70's was wtf does that mean? I am an Irishman. It sounded like a label of identity which meant something sinister to them and nothing to me.

[pintsofguinness]

I think you boys dont like the term "freestater" because it hits a nerve, perhaps subconsciously.

Btw there are people telling you that the term means nothing but yous wont accept it, yous know yous are behaving like unionists?

[Zapatista]

I think you boys dont like the term "freestater" because it hits a nerve, perhaps subconsciously.

Btw there are people telling you that the term means nothing but yous wont accept it, yous know yous are behaving like unionists?

I often use it with the intention to hit that nerve. You can call it the intention to insult if you want. I did think for years that is was a harmless and unoffensive term though and my father still uses it in that context.

[Main Street]

It would be beneath me to call you a Brit.
Factually correct but probably and rightfully regarded as very insulting to your sense of identity.

Nothing is beneath you   some sort of anti psychology.

[Zapatista]

I don't really have a problem with being called a Brit I'm not going to pretend it's a black and white situation. It's no worse than being called an Irishman as the majority Irish are no better than the majority Brits. I suppose it depends on the context though and I could be offended if insult is intended.  There seems to be a need to be one or the other for some reason. We have two bad options and seem to accept we must be one or the other. F**k them both I say.

My sense of Identity is not wrapped up in a tri-colour and Roy Keane.

[lynchbhoy]

was called a 'freestate b***d' once when playing in an all Ireland fresher football final a long time ago when we (southern college) were playing jordanstown. Was annoyed at being thought of being one!

some years later just before I hung up the boots and was in a fould fighting mood in a junior football game, I called someone this  - to help try and intimidate/provoke a reaction. The intimidation part seemed to work.
Anyone that knows me that can think of my fcuked up accent actually saying this will get a great laugh!

[Hardy]

Sorry, this is getting a bit much. Zapatista is happy to insult us and still expect reasoned debate in return. Pintsofguinness wants me to be responsible for where Kevin Barry is buried, ffs. I don't really know what to say about that. I have to speculate, though, on what would be the reaction here if a crowd of us "freestaters" and "southerners" banded together to fling insults at Northerners (nationalists only, of course) and demand to know what they're doing for the rest of us, accuse them of everything from treachery to apathy and deliberately call them names that they've told us they find insulting.

[pintsofguinness]

You're not going to answer my questions or address my points hardy?
You're going to run away?

[lynchbhoy]

I know that the term free stater is used as a term of geographical reference.
However it CAN be used as an insult - depending on how its said and the context.

the rest of this is going OTT as no one here has caused the problems experienced in NI, and the propaganda media machine is to blame for all the lads here and worldwide for not knowing the truth of what happened.
I dont particularly want to have to remember it myself.

When we have no one else to fight, we fight among ourselves.
This is a statement I have always believed about us Irish.

let it go lads.