the troubles i've seen.....

[milltown row]

Too much really...

Yeah, I've no desire to enter that part of my head. 
I'll never move on, or forgive. 

forgive who? move on where?

[pintsofguinness]

Too much really...

Yeah, I've no desire to enter that part of my head. 
I'll never move on, or forgive. 

forgive who? move on where?

I cant and wont forgive the things the Brits have done on me and my neighbours and friends.  By move on I mean, forget. 

[milltown row]

but what about the young Sheffield kid who joins the army 19 years of age, (can you remember what it was like when ya were 19?) sent straight over here during the 70's and didn't care not one jot about who's right or wrong, to him it was paddy's fighting paddys. next thing he's heading down towards the border and blown to pieces. what did he do?

i've no problem with not forgiving the peelers/brits who with first hand experiences seen the brutality daily growing up. but lets not generalise as there was brutal acts on both sides and they claimed they did it for ireland/ulster

if we don't move on then you'll die a bitter twisted man. life's for living, I'm glad that i made it through the rough times, growing up on the Falls during the troubles was tough and plenty of reasons for hate

[pintsofguinness]

i've no problem with not forgiving the peelers/brits who with first hand experiences seen the brutality daily growing up.

So what are you disagreeing with me about?

[milltown row]

you not getting over the hatred. by living in the past your no better than the loyalist thugs calling for Irish Blood.

if more people moved on we'd be in a better place. whats done is done and we can never raise the dead

[pintsofguinness]

I'm not calling for anyone's blood.  I just wont forget what has been done.

[cville]

but what about the young Sheffield kid who joins the army 19 years of age, (can you remember what it was like when ya were 19?) sent straight over here during the 70's and didn't care not one jot about who's right or wrong, to him it was paddy's fighting paddys. next thing he's heading down towards the border and blown to pieces. what did he do?

i've no problem with not forgiving the peelers/brits who with first hand experiences seen the brutality daily growing up. but lets not generalise as there was brutal acts on both sides and they claimed they did it for ireland/ulster

if we don't move on then you'll die a bitter twisted man. life's for living, I'm glad that i made it through the rough times, growing up on the Falls during the troubles was tough and plenty of reasons for hate

You talk about the young guy from Sheffield.... I used to think 'Yeah, Tiocfaidh ar la!' .. do you recall the young squaddie in the Falls about 1972 who got lost from his patrol and was told by local women that it was okay - we'll get you out .. next thing he starts crying for his mother while someone phones the 'boys' .. three in the head he got! -  Ireland's Heroes me thinks. Nah! Nobody is innocent mate!

[pintsofguinness]

but what about the young Sheffield kid who joins the army 19 years of age, (can you remember what it was like when ya were 19?) sent straight over here during the 70's and didn't care not one jot about who's right or wrong, to him it was paddy's fighting paddys. next thing he's heading down towards the border and blown to pieces. what did he do?

i've no problem with not forgiving the peelers/brits who with first hand experiences seen the brutality daily growing up. but lets not generalise as there was brutal acts on both sides and they claimed they did it for ireland/ulster

if we don't move on then you'll die a bitter twisted man. life's for living, I'm glad that i made it through the rough times, growing up on the Falls during the troubles was tough and plenty of reasons for hate

You talk about the young guy from Sheffield.... I used to think 'Yeah, Tiocfaidh ar la!' .. do you recall the young squaddie in the Falls about 1972 who got lost from his patrol and was told by local women that it was okay - we'll get you out .. next thing he starts crying for his mother while someone phones the 'boys' .. three in the head he got! -  Ireland's Heroes me thinks. Nah! Nobody is innocent mate!

He was a soldier wasnt he? made a choice and all that.

[Double Cross]

A few things stand out for me. On the day that 18 paras were killed in Warrenpoint, I happened to be in the graveyard in Burren. Remember both explosions well and the gunfire afterwards. Wether or not it was the army shooting or ammunition going off from the fire in the hay lorry I don't know. A friends uncle worked for the fire service in Newry, he always maintained that there were a lot more than 18 soldiers killed that day. He wouldn't have been a man for telling stories either and had no political affiliations as he was English.
We had a delivery in work one Friday evening but the forklift was broke and there was no way anyone was staying on to offload it by hand. Arrangements were made to get a lend of a forklift first thing Saturday morning, so we were lumbered with a Scouse lorry driver for the night. He wanted to go on the lash so we all ended up in Cupids, cant remember who was playing that night but it could well have been Brush Shields, 5 Sams could probably confirm as he worked there. Anyway long story short there was a mortar attack on a police car outside the tax office and a police woman was killed and a policeman lost both his legs. There was a carnival atmosphere both inside and outside Cupids, felt sorry for the lorry driver as he was pretty scared by both the bomb attack and the atmosphere afterwards. He never came back on a delivery after that.
Saw plenty of riots in my day, the best of which were in Newry in 97 after the Drumcree debacle. Newry and South Armagh were like the wild west for a few days afterwards as the police that were left in Newry were confined to barracks. The younger generation think it was mad, but to us it was part of growing up. Although we have a "normal" society today, society in general isn't what it used to be.

[Puckoon]

Christ pints that's disgusting.

[pintsofguinness]

What puck?

[Donagh]

growing up on the Falls during the troubles was tough and plenty of reasons for hate

What was tough about it? I'd have thought the Falls would have been a relatively safe place to see out the 'Troubles'. Ditto Cross and many areas west of the Bann such as Derry city.

[Puckoon]

As the old saying goes - all is fair in love and war.

On a purely humanitarian basis however, I find your justification of the demise of that young soilder disgusting.

Cant seem to put it any other way. Perhaps you have encountered things in your life that justify a young lad being brutally executed after being assured of safety -all because he was a soldier. If you have, then the whole thing is very sad.

Its amazing that people who have such strong anti abortion ideologies often miss the ironies of some of their other beliefs. The death penalty, and the soldiers fate being two such cases.

[Tyrones own]

Its amazing that people who have such strong anti abortion ideologies often miss the ironies of some of their other beliefs. The death penalty, and the soldiers fate being two such cases.

I can't speak for Pints but I guess for me the unborn child not being afforded a choice is the fundamental difference there...not taking a side, rather IMO pointing out what could be seen as a difference.

[Puckoon]

So it is ok to take away life and play God, provided the "victim" has had a choice in living their life in such a manner that leads to their death at the hands of another?


Just flipping the coin so to speak.

Its just interesting to be asked questions like what gives me the right to decide "an unborn child" should be "killed" (even though Ive basically stated my case upon my beliefs of when life begins) by the same group that might justify the execution of a 18 year old because he made a choice to be a soldier. There is no denying, or grey matter when discussing if an 18 year old soldier is actually a living human being - but hey, its a British soldier in occupied Ireland. Serves him right.


That said - Im not sure the event in question even happened (although Im sure numerous events like it did), I guess Im just a big softie, and cant even begin to imagine the final moments of some of the numerous victims of the troubles, on both sides.

There are evil men and women with bloody hands on all three sides of the irish troubles, and Im sure many of them would disagree with abortion while sleeping happily in their beds at night.