Wexford Vs Armagh - Feb 1st

[Uladh]

Been a bit out of the loop of late but second hand info is plenty to go on to speculate on an internet forum in terms of who might make teams....

A fast start to the year, it would seem to me, could be vital for armagh and peter McDonnell. anything other than that could mean a poor atmosphere building in the county and growing discontent. there are already a lot of grumblings. It seem there are alot of "established" players who have not featured in the McKenna cup so we can only assume they will be available for the league? i hear McGrane will not feature early on anyway. theoretically....

Rodgers

Moriarty
Toner
Donaghy

McKeever
O'Rourke
Donnelly

Lavery
Vernon

O'Rourke
Mallon
Courtney/Toal

O'Rourke/Forker/Henderson
Clarke
McDonnell

happy enough with the look of that

[boro]

Both Matty Forde and Red Barry will be missing from Wexford anyway. We have been playing experimental sides in the O'Byrne cup so it will be interesting if any of these new lads make the starting 15. Really looking forward to this game now

[bennydorano]

I'd imagine there'll be no Vernon (or any Uni players for that matter) as the Queens V UUJ game is on Wed 4th Feb.

I really think we have to move away from having AOR at CHB, as I've said a few times I'd criticise the role not the player, it's a sh1t tactic -  just get on it Peter and put Ciaran McKeever there.

[Uladh]

surely the uni players can't be pulled from a national league game to save them for a sigerson game? to hell with that.

O'Rourke was amongst armagh's better player players last year so i can't see a change there unless there's a dip in form? i'm not sure what the "role" is that you refer to benny? on top of that there'd have to be another chb found in that case as i don't think mckeever is chb material, fantastic defender though he is.

[bennydorano]

A large part of his role seemed to be sweeping in front of the FB line, an any time he did fall back Vernon and MOR would be sitting in around the HB line therefore robbing the forwardline, it was one big chain of Negativity.  His lack of pace always leaves the threat that he could be exposed thus the need for tactics to combat this and the tactics are what lead us to look incredibly defensive.

I firmly believe if AOR starts at CHB against Tyrone in the summer we will be murdered, there's no one better than Harte to expose a frailty.  Could you imagine AOR running around after Cavanagh, McGuigan, O'Neill?  He wouldn't be fit to therefore he'll sit, meaning someone else will have to cover, creating a spare man somewhere for Tyrone and an extra defender for us.

McDonnell has promised a more expansive game and I think we'll need a more mobile CHB to play any such system, although I don't for one second think we'll be seeing that type of football in healy park come the summer.

I find it very hard to believe that you don't think McKeever would make a good CHB, but there's only one way to find out – play him there during the NFL. 

[Uladh]

He's played there quite a bit on and off to varying success - poor sense of positioning seem to be his major flaw. someone like toner might be the best alternative to o'rourke, or possibly Donaghy? i'm not convinced what you say re o'rourke is correct for a couple of reasons though - 1 - if a centre forward plays in the forward line he'd have to be marked but if he drifts into his own defence i wouldn't want a centre half following him and 2 - i'm not convinced o'rourke couldn't play as a lemming centre half (me da's term) as, despite notions to the contrary, i can't recall a forward beating him for pace - in the same way McGeeney ws rumoured to have that weakness for about 10 years.

[The GAA]

Rodgers or McEvoy, Duffy, Donaghy, McKeown, Kernan, O'Rourke, McKeever, Toner & Vernon, O'Rourke, McDonnell, McKenna, Henderson, Clarke, O'Rourke.

Not sure about the doubts on AOR. He's a fantastic footballer and Armagh are struggling to count lads in that category. thought himself and clarke wre the only two to take any creit out of 2008.

[Uladh]

Rodgers or McEvoy, Duffy, Donaghy, McKeown, Kernan, O'Rourke, McKeever, Toner & Vernon, O'Rourke, McDonnell, McKenna, Henderson, Clarke, O'Rourke.

Not sure about the doubts on AOR. He's a fantastic footballer and Armagh are struggling to count lads in that category. thought himself and clarke wre the only two to take any creit out of 2008.

Don't think so

[Armamike]

McKeever would need to have improved a hell of a lot at CHB since the last time he was tried there in the league and championship a couple of years back.  The old 40 footer could have been driven straight through the middle of the Armagh defence when he was supposed to be playing that position.  It's an odd one - at underage level he was very strong in that position. O'Rourke pretty much had a free role last year, whether that was due to Armagh tactics or teams dropping their CHF deeper, but he did spend much of his time mopping up loose ball. He had the time to do what he's good at, distribute the ball accurately. But he wasn't asked to hold the position and mark the man.    

More than results per se I'd like to see Armagh develop a level of consistency and a clear style of play that gives encouragement for the summer. I still don't really know what McDonnell's footballing philosophy is.  

[Sandy Hill]

McKeever would need to have improved a hell of a lot at CHB since the last time he was tried there in the league and championship a couple of years back.  The old 40 footer could have been driven straight through the middle of the Armagh defence when he was supposed to be playing that position.  It's an odd one - at underage level he was very strong in that position. O'Rourke pretty much had a free role last year, whether that was due to Armagh tactics or teams dropping their CHF deeper, but he did spend much of his time mopping up loose ball. He had the time to do what he's good at, distribute the ball accurately. But he wasn't asked to hold the position and mark the man.    

More than results per se I'd like to see Armagh develop a level of consistency and a clear style of play that gives encouragement for the summer. I still don't really know what McDonnell's footballing philosophy is.    

I'm not sure McDonnell does either! I must say that I remain totally unconvinced about Vernon; he made a great run and scored a goal in the NFL game against Dublin last year but apart from that, what? He's prone to giving away ball easily and I'm not sure he goes in 100% for every 50/50 ball which is an absolute essential, especially come Championship time. JP Donnelly wasn't good enough two years ago, so unless there's been a miracle improvement there I wouldn't have him near the team and anyway his indiscipline is a liability. I'd like Donaghy at FB with Kieran Toner at MF with James Lavery.

[corn02]

Uladh I thought you would of had McEvoy in being a keen follower of Dromintee games?

I don;t know what team I would like to see, I would still want to see some fringe players get a chance, but I think promotion is essential this year.

[illdecide]

Lads we have to be honest here, we are not blessed with the talent that other county teams have and indeed what we have been used to the last 10 years. Armagh can't have any passengers i.e. dropping guys back to cover and our half forwards doing likewise, that was OK doing that 5 years ago when we had Marsden, McConville, McDonnell, Clarke and McKeever who were all naturally scorers but worked their socks of. Now we have the workers but they are not in the scoring class of the 5 mentioned above so we have to stick to a game plan that suits us and that we will score from and it sure as hell won't be the crop served up last year.

What the new system will be is any ones guess because i haven't a clue and good luck to Peter trying to come up with one. Defenders defend, midfielders do a bit of everything and forwards score sounds simple i know but we have to have forwards in a scoring position not in our half back line...

[mackers]

Very good interview in today's Irish News with Aaron Kernan who pretty much put it perfectly. There should be no need for all this pulling players back when you have defenders of the quality of Andy Mallon, Brendan Donaghy & Ciaran McKeever. In fairness to Martin McHugh (not somebody I always agree with), I watched a recording of the cavan game last year and he was saying the exact same thing when we were winning well.
I'm with Benny on O'Rourke's role, although a super player his role must return to a more conventional CHB so there is less need for covering the space, if he succeeds in the conventional role (I hope he does) then happy days, if not, then somebody else will have to be tried.
On the Vernon thing, the big question is how can he be such a stand out player for Queens at a high level of football and Armagh can't get the same return out of him? Two theories - 1. He's not fit for the jump to inter-county football or 2. The role that he is asked to play is too restrictive.
I firmly believe the second is true. I watched him in the Ulster Final turn his back on his marker (i.e. the wing back) who received the ball in his own position. Charlie then sprinted as hard as he could into his own back line and wait for the wing back there. Why not challenge him initially rather than run away? I know for a fact that he was told to play in a zone of the field no matter where the ball was. This is horse sh1te!!! Charlie seems to be given the freedom of the park with Queens. Backs up what Kernan said in today's paper, he stated that Brian Dooher doesn't wait to tackle once he's in defence, he'll tackle anywhere in the field. Charlie isn't the only player that had to play a restricted role but he's a damned good example.

[bennydorano]

Charlie did have a restrictive role last year along with others.  The likes of Toner and Vernon were told not to try and field ball in MF but to break it,with only McGrane doing the fielding WTF??! What sort of nonsense is that?  I know that Charlie wasn't happy playing that position, but I guess he'd rather be there than on the subs bench.  Lets not forget that he's only 22 yrs of age, I'd expect a far bigger impact this year if he gets a less restrictive role.

Read Kernan in the Irish News, he fairly let fly alright.  A few of the players seem to be forcing MCDonnell's hand regarding tactics and I think it could be a good thing as McDonnell is naturally conservative.

Heaney also made a good point - developing a new style of play will mean hiccups along the way.  Hope we are prepared to accept them for proper championship development.

[Uladh]

Those are very worrying stories on direction to players. i don't think you can tell players to be here or there at different times. county footballers have to be able to play the game in front of them. certainly, give them guidance and a general theme but players have to play. To tell vernon and Toner not to catch ball seems ridiculous.

Haven't seen much of vernon lately but in the last couple of years he has exhibited all of the qualities needed to play midfield for armagh at different times. with a bit of fine tuning he could have a great future there. i don't understand why he hasn't been able to translate the colleges form.

On a general point i would have to say that i'm not a fan of players speahing publicly on team affairs. stevie mc has done this also and i think it augers badly for team cohesion. if ak had come out with this interview when joe was in charge he'd have been lucky to stay on the squad (well if he had a different surname).

EDIT - corn - i haven't seen the keepers play though i heard that rodgers had a great couple of games. i know McEvoy is a good keeper but haven't seen him in a while.