The official Everton FC Supporters thread

[Esmarelda]

Seems to be an awful lot of people being outraged about a paper they claim not to read. Apparently quite a few have chosen to read this Sun article at least.

I think you realise that most people have seen the article reproduced on other websites.

Why do you feel the need to make a point you know to be untrue?

[Main Street]

To pull out the racist card in this instance is wrong. It is subjective and turns it into a debate about the implication of one sentence in what was an overall disgusting attack on a young man whose crime is being a public figure.

I don't think McKenzie meant to be racist, although his constant jibes at Liverpool and it's inhabitants says more about the odious p***k that he is.
It's time the PFA stood up for it's members and canvas it's members to not give interviews to the Sun and it now should be a given that Everton ban them as well.

Fwiw, you don't need to prove racist intent in a questionable racist statement in order for that statement to be judged racist.
But it would be wise to look at the context.

One question is what did McKenzie intend by comparing Ross to an ape?
He's saying that he's not human, below a human, dehumanize the target as if to indicate that being a non human is the problem. That why black people were historically  compared to apes/monkeys and still are. It became part of the everyday language of racists and slave trade apologists.

Imo, the racist tag still applies in this case even if McKenzie was unaware that it was in the public domain that Ross could  have declared for Nigeria, due to his family blood ties. McKenzie used the traditional racist put-down of black people and applied it to what he probably thought was a lowly scouser. I think we can reasonably infer that McKenzie is dehumanising  by association, equating a lowlife scouser to a lowlife black person by trying to dehumanise Ross with the  ape comparison.


Here is an example of context, how a word could sound racist if you ignore the vital importance of context.
Recently an Australian pundit who likened a development in the play by Venus Willams to a  guerilla effect (tactic). UnfortunatEly for him, an outraged public thought he said gorilla and context was totally diminished as a value by which we understand the spoken language, it was replaced by ignorant blind emotion.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/early-lead/wp/2017/01/19/espn-analyst-says-he-did-not-liken-venus-williams-to-a-gorilla-but-a-guerrilla/?utm_term=.c5cf8b285d2d

[The Stallion]

Seems to be an awful lot of people being outraged about a paper they claim not to read. Apparently quite a few have chosen to read this Sun article at least.

I think you realise that most people have seen the article reproduced on other websites.

Why do you feel the need to make a point you know to be untrue?

I don't know it to be untrue. It's quite apparent many people who have read this Sun article are the same people who claim not to read the Sun.

[Hectic]

To pull out the racist card in this instance is wrong. It is subjective and turns it into a debate about the implication of one sentence in what was an overall disgusting attack on a young man whose crime is being a public figure.

I don't think McKenzie meant to be racist, although his constant jibes at Liverpool and it's inhabitants says more about the odious p***k that he is.
It's time the PFA stood up for it's members and canvas it's members to not give interviews to the Sun and it now should be a given that Everton ban them as well.

Fwiw, you don't need to prove racist intent in a questionable racist statement in order for that statement to be judged racist.
But it would be wise to look at the context.

One question is what did McKenzie intend by comparing Ross to an ape?
He's saying that he's not human, below a human, dehumanize the target as if to indicate that being a non human is the problem. That why black people were historically  compared to apes/monkeys and still are. It became part of the everyday language of racists and slave trade apologists.

Imo, the racist tag still applies in this case even if McKenzie was unaware that it was in the public domain that Ross could  have declared for Nigeria, due to his family blood ties. McKenzie used the traditional racist put-down of black people and applied it to what he probably thought was a lowly scouser. I think we can reasonably infer that McKenzie is dehumanising  by association, equating a lowlife scouser to a lowlife black person by trying to dehumanise Ross with the  ape comparison.


Here is an example of context, how a word could sound racist if you ignore the vital importance of context.
Recently an Australian pundit who likened a development in the play by Venus Willams to a  guerilla effect (tactic). UnfortunatEly for him, an outraged public thought he said gorilla and context was totally diminished as a value by which we understand the spoken language, it was replaced by ignorant blind emotion.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/early-lead/wp/2017/01/19/espn-analyst-says-he-did-not-liken-venus-williams-to-a-gorilla-but-a-guerrilla/?utm_term=.c5cf8b285d2d

Yes we have all these laws and definitions around topics like racism, sexism etc where someone simply has to be offended in a certain manner for it to be that manner of offence. But there was a lot of stuff in his article that was highly distasteful and a lot of stuff where there can be no ambiguity that was pretty disgusting to stick in a newspaper column. But look guys like this are writing articles like this is titles like the Sun because there is a demand among readers for this type of crap. It says a lot about a section of the GB public that this passed through the editorial process as something that was deemed suitable consumption for their target audience.

[Walter Cronc]

Pickford to Everton for £30 million!!!

[Sheedy]

Pickford to Everton for £30 million!!!

apparently its 18million up front with another 12million in add ons. he's only 23 and if he's about for next 10 years it will be money well spent, great signing.

[Sheedy]

Everton have completed the signing off ajax captain davy klaasen for 26 million. Splashing the cash early in the window,  another good signing.

[manfromdelmonte]

£56 million in deals already

this could get interesting
spending the lukaku cash in advance?
or morshiri showing the ambition of the club

[johnneycool]

£56 million in deals already

this could get interesting
spending the lukaku cash in advance?
or morshiri showing the ambition of the club

Bill is only getting round to spending the Arteta money, he's still to spend the Stones and Fellaini money 

[Walter Cronc]

Is this the Lukaku/Barkley money?

Klassen a good signing.

[Fuzzman]

Who cares where the money is coming from as long as we are showing ambition by not being scared to pay £25M+ for decent players now rather than our old attitude of ahh that's far too dear. He's not worth that!

I'm delighted we're getting these deals done early and not just talking about it for weeks. Klaasan was Ajax's captain last year and their 2nd top scorer. With all the defensive midfielders we have we badly needed a scoring midfielder.

Hopefully Barkley will stay and fight for his place but I reckon Rom will definitely leave.
I don't think this Niang lad is that great though from what the Milan fans were saying on their discussion boards
He has only scored 29 goals in his 157 game club career to date, a worse record than Niasse, yet loads of clubs seem interested in him.

I'd much rather this Sandro lad who looks to have it all but I think he's taking his time and looking around to see who's interested in him before he decides where he wants to go to. At £6M he would be a steal.

[Captain Scarlet]

Everton fans tell me this one now...
I see on Twitter than there is a decent split re Barkley in terms of letting him off or keeping him. I honestly want to know how you lads rate him.
In terms of transfer rumours talk of Spurs are flying but he wouldn´t get a sniff with Dele Ali at 10 and the workrate seems to be an issue for Koeman, and Pochettino demands even more in terms of pressing.
I just don´t get how a lad who blows so hot and cold at 23 is valued so much while some Everton fans on twitter are saying Klassen is crap. He is a year older and is way more established.
I am not trolling or messing here, as I genuinely don´t see Barkley being a consistent player all season.

[Sheedy]

Everton fans tell me this one now...
I see on Twitter than there is a decent split re Barkley in terms of letting him off or keeping him. I honestly want to know how you lads rate him.
In terms of transfer rumours talk of Spurs are flying but he wouldn´t get a sniff with Dele Ali at 10 and the workrate seems to be an issue for Koeman, and Pochettino demands even more in terms of pressing.
I just don´t get how a lad who blows so hot and cold at 23 is valued so much while some Everton fans on twitter are saying Klassen is crap. He is a year older and is way more established.
I am not trolling or messing here, as I genuinely don´t see Barkley being a consistent player all season.

thats it in a nutshell, barkley has shown flashes of brillance but then can disappear in other games. because he's a local lad, all everton fans are desperate for him to succeed but as you said he's 23 now and we probably havent seen him push on the way we all hoped.
its got to the stage now that if he moves, everton fans will be disappointed because 'he's one of our own' but most realise there's players out there with better quality that could take us to the next level. if he signs new contract...great, if he doesnt...ship him out, simple as.

[Fuzzman]

I'd say most of the local fans would want him to stay and to come good but if you're more ruthless like Koeman is I think then you would probably let him go as he's doesn't seem to be reaching the level we all think he can. Maybe it's because of the way we play or the lack of movement ahead of him.
Del Ali certainly has better players around him and Kane shows much more movement and work rate than Lukaku does so maybe it's not all his own fault.

I'd be happy for him to stay but don't think he's an automatic starter any more. He doesn't score enough goals in my eyes and for such a big lad he should be winning a lot more headers also.
I get the feeling he wants to move on as he feels the pressure from the fans and when he loses the ball there is always that Tut feeling.
He might do better away from the home town pressure

[Sheedy]

with another 2 quality signings in today, michael keane 25million and sandro ramirez for 5.6million, thats the guts of 100million spent already with a few more being heavily linked (giroud and rooney). good to see the club are showing plenty of ambition and the fans are already looking forward to the new season.