Thrilla in Manilla

[Aghdavoyle]

Channel 4's documentary last night on the Frazier / Ali trilogy was highly enjoyable - the best couple of hours on tv over the whole christmas period.

Frazier cut a sad figure - a bitter man man. no doubt he was very badly treated by ali after doing his best to keep ali on the stage during his exile from boxing.

foreman must have been some puncher to put frazier away like he did and it compunds the view that ali was possibly the best taker of punishment of the era when you look at what foreman inflicted on him in zaire.

larry holmes assertion that ali was way over rated as a boxer was surprising but there's no doubt that he wasn't best liked by the boxing fraternity of his own generation, mostly due to his habitual humiliation of opponents.

it was sad looking at a 63 year old frazier strapping on the mits and looking like an 80 year old. it'sad too that ali isn't able to contribute to such documentaries and the reason for both is the same. they beat each other up to a degree that wouldn't be allowed today.

that said, i have always thought futch was wrong to not allow frazier fight the last round.

[5 Sams]

That really was a savage fight....they battered each other. Scary stuff.


I also watched Ali's interview with Cathal O'Shannon which on last night as well....some charisma....but you can see why the other heavyweights didnt like him.

[Treasurer]

RTE showed the full Cathal O'Shannon interview with Ali last night too, while I'd seen bits of it over the years I had never seen the full interview, very entertaining.

[Drumanee 1]

theres no doubting ali was the greatest sportsman of all time but underneath it all he was a bitter racist and facist.

[Old Bill]

I had no idea they hated each other so much! Great documentary. Interesting comparison in that ali had sold his image rights for 50m and Frazier lives in a dungeon above a gym!

[full back]

Watched this show on Saturday night on E4 or More 4

Ali was superb alright, but I was very suprised at how much of a racist he was, lost a bit of respect for him (not that he would give a flying fcuk)
It is clear that Frazier is still very bitter about the whole episode & seems to be gloating about Ali's demise

Great documentary mind

[Aghdavoyle]

Absolutely he turned into a racist after getting involved with the muslims. his interviews with with parkinson when looked at chronologically are very character revealing and go some way to exposing his racist beliefs as manufactured.

[red hander]

theres no doubting ali was the greatest sportsman of all time but underneath it all he was a bitter racist and facist.

Think you're being a bit unfair there.  All that shite he spouted about Frazer was more about hyping the fight and living up to his reputation as the Louisville Lip.  Remember, this is the man at the height of his powers and fame who was courageous enough to to stand up and risk it all and prison by refusing to be drafted into the US Army to fight their illegal war in Vietnam ... Remember "No Viet Cong ever called me nigger."  His stance was an important part of the opposition that eventually led to the Yanks pulling out of Vietnam in humiliation ... Frazer had a right to be annoyed at the time, but he's full of shit if he thinks he alone is responsible for the state of Ali now (has he never heard of Ernie Young, Ken Norton, Larry Holmes etc?) ... Ali has apologised more than once, it's Frazer who is the bitter one

[Aghdavoyle]

first off, i'm a fan of ali the boxer and sportsman but i have my reservations about ali the man.

he never apologised to frazier himself, which would have been important.

his avoidance of the draft was not a political stand in my view but rather a knee jerk decision to avoid service. the "No Viet Cong ever called me nigger" approach was cooked up after by the black muslims and was essentially their window into getting a vice grip on ali.

[its me again]

anybody know any good sites to buy boxing dvds from

bought the thiller in manilla as a shristmas and it went down well

i would to get copies of ali fights and a few other heavyweights

any reccomendations welcome

[red hander]

first off, i'm a fan of ali the boxer and sportsman but i have my reservations about ali the man.

he never apologised to frazier himself, which would have been important.

his avoidance of the draft was not a political stand in my view but rather a knee jerk decision to avoid service. the "No Viet Cong ever called me nigger" approach was cooked up after by the black muslims and was essentially their window into getting a vice grip on ali.

Yep, he should have apologised to Frazier himself ... but judging by Joe's personality, I doubt very much he would have accepted it.  Disagree re the war ... a fighter as brave as Ali wouldn't have been afraid of going to Vietnam had he been a 'patriot' ... him risking it all to defy the draft was a courageous political stand full stop.  I think you're crediting the muslims with too much intelligence ... a racist shower of honky haters they may have been, but considering America's treatment of blacks up to that point you could understand - if not agree - with the reasons why they were so pissed off

[Leo]

Fantastic programme - sad and revealing content, gripping and exciting fight sequences, compelling even to the point of discomfort at watching it.
Frazier cuts a desolate figure and sums up the corruption at the heart of pro fighting.
As for racism, this is in the era of black power, white supremacy, KKK and all that - hardly surprising.
As with everything Ali, however, take a large pinch of salt - he was the ultimate spinner, king of hype and hyperbole.

[corn02]

Only saw part of it but was superb. Ali seemed to come off as the worst of the two in the part I saw. The KKK story was unreal.

[The Iceman]

I bought the complete Tyson set on ebay - obviously it is a home made job as they were never released on box set but it was great quality and have had many a night in with a few beers watching the fights
the same boy was selling McGuigans fights and a few other boxers at the time

[gallsman]

theres no doubting ali was the greatest sportsman of all time but underneath it all he was a bitter racist and facist.

Think you're being a bit unfair there.  All that shite he spouted about Frazer was more about hyping the fight and living up to his reputation as the Louisville Lip.  Remember, this is the man at the height of his powers and fame who was courageous enough to to stand up and risk it all and prison by refusing to be drafted into the US Army to fight their illegal war in Vietnam ... Remember "No Viet Cong ever called me nigger."  His stance was an important part of the opposition that eventually led to the Yanks pulling out of Vietnam in humiliation ... Frazer had a right to be annoyed at the time, but he's full of shit if he thinks he alone is responsible for the state of Ali now (has he never heard of Ernie Young, Ken Norton, Larry Holmes etc?) ... Ali has apologised more than once, it's Frazer who is the bitter one

Who's Ernie Young?!

Jimmy Young? Ernie Terrell? Only link I can make. I'm not sure you could confuse the two fights as one, Young, was close (if not a humiliating loss for Ali) and the other, Terrell was a complete annihilation...