Liverpool Players supporting Michael Shields

[corn02]

corn

Also it is unlikely that all his friends imagined him in your room. You are suspecting that his friends are lying because they are scouse. Hypothetically speaking and it was you, would you expect your friends to be lying if they said they saw you in the room?

FFS I dont give a shite where he is from, dont you start going down that road. 
I suspect his friends may be lying because they're his friends trying to cover for him! What were they all doing going in and out of the room?

So are you saying that it is uncommon for party goers in a foreign country not to go back to a room and have a holiday? It is the norm. So just because they are his friends they are lying? Also, why wouls Shanks confess? That should be the most important thing above eyewitnesses of friends and Bulgarians.

[corn02]

corn

FFS I dont give a shite where he is from, dont you start going down that road. 

Fair enough, I apologise for that. But I do suspect that if was an Armagh/Tyrone man etc and the witnesses were not Bulgarian but Iraqi or something, people would take a different viewpoint due to the stereotypes attached. They would probably take the the firedns' statements on a much higher ground and dismiss the Iraqi accounts more easily.

[pintsofguinness]

So are you saying that it is uncommon for party goers in a foreign country not to go back to a room and have a holiday? It is the norm.

Is it the norm if someone is in bed sleeping and said hours before he was going to bed?  I wouldnt think so.  they are friends and have reason to lie. What about the co accused who said sheilds was with him, why would he lie?

Shanks confessed to throwing a brick at someone, big difference in that and what Shields is accused of.  

Sounds like the ID parade would have gone against UK law but imo people arent stupid.  If I've to go and ID someone at an ID parade seeing someone handcuffed to a radiator isn't going to influence me, I'll know if they're the person I seen or not.  

Corn, bulgaria have plenty of 24 hour places (at least the parts i've been) and you can get a drink anywhere (I've drank beer in KFC!) yet you see very few drunk bulgarians.  

[corn02]

So are you saying that it is uncommon for party goers in a foreign country not to go back to a room and have a holiday? It is the norm.

Is it the norm if someone is in bed sleeping and said hours before he was going to bed?  I wouldnt think so.  they are friends and have reason to lie. What about the co accused who said sheilds was with him, why would he lie?

Shanks confessed to throwing a brick at someone, big difference in that and what Shields is accused of.  

Sounds like the ID parade would have gone against UK law but imo people arent stupid.  If I've to go and ID someone at an ID parade seeing someone handcuffed to a radiator isn't going to influence me, I'll know if they're the person I seen or not.  

Corn, bulgaria have plenty of 24 hour places (at least the parts i've been) and you can get a drink anywhere (I've drank beer in KFC!) yet you see very few drunk bulgarians.  

But you can't say that those Bulgarinas were not drunk, they may have been the drunk few.

Yes, it is the norm. They went back to his room as a group and he got so drunk that he went to bed. Have you been to these parties, the other people there are not going to say "oh he is asleep, let's go and give him some peace," no they would drink on.

[pintsofguinness]

But you can't say that those Bulgarinas were not drunk, they may have been the drunk few.

As I said earlier, even if they were drunk seeing an incident like that would sober you up very quickly.

[GalwayBayBoy]

As I said I don't know if he did or did not do it but the investigation was undoubtably a complete and utter farce which wouldn't have even reached a courtroom in this part of the world. When ITV did their documentary a year or two ago officers from the Met in London went over the evidence and said it simply wouldn't stand up in court due to the manner in which the Bulgarian police conducted their investigation. Driving Shields past witnesses in the back of a police car, chaining him up in the lobby of the police station in full view of the public, having him as the only young foreigner in the police line-up along with a number of older locals when they were looking for a foreigner, etc, etc.

[stevo-08]

Sounds like the ID parade would have gone against UK law but imo people arent stupid.  If I've to go and ID someone at an ID parade seeing someone handcuffed to a radiator isn't going to influence me, I'll know if they're the person I seen or not.  
 

perhaps, but it doesnt explain why there were contradictions in the eye witnesses statements - they differed in picking shields as the person who punched the bulgarian and the person who threw the slab. Also, to make the ID parade more farcical, the eye witnesses were allowed to have a discussion after the lineup. Again, this should have made the ID parade inadmissable.

As I said, the conviction was based solely on the eye witnesses picking shields out of a farcical lineup in which he was the only white. Should have been thrown out. Not to mention the Sankey "confession" and Shield's "Alibi". No matter what you think, can you say he was guilty beyond reasonable doubt?

The ITV documentary is availabe on youtube, I think it's called Michael Shields - The Fogotten Fan. it's definitely worth a look

[corn02]

But you can't say that those Bulgarinas were not drunk, they may have been the drunk few.

As I said earlier, even if they were drunk seeing an incident like that would sober you up very quickly.

Don't believe that for a second. Shokcing or not, the alcohol is still in your system. You may think your sobered up, but you don't magically become sober. You are still open to the affects of drink as much.

[pintsofguinness]

Nonsense corn you'd be fit to identify someone, you most definitley would know if someone had dark or fair hair.  From my experiences in Bulgaria I'd be surprised if any of them were drunk. 

[corn02]

Nonsense corn you'd be fit to identify someone, you most definitley would know if someone had dark or fair hair.  From my experiences in Bulgaria I'd be surprised if any of them were drunk. 

If you are plutered drunk and you saw the incident it is nonsense to suggest you would automatically be sober and a 100% reliable and able to pick out the minor details.

So you are saying there are no drunk people in Bulgaria or very few. For all you know the witnesses could be alcholics who were paid to lie. It would be the same assumption as saying Micahel's friends are liars.

[Rav67]

Maybe I shouldn't have said clearly innocent, but the conviction is clearly unsafe and there's no way he should have been convicted on such shoddy evidence.  I have to agree with corn in that I have no doubt everyone would be calling for his release if he was Irish.  I remember there was a good deal of sympathy among people I talked to for the boy in Spain who got convicted of murdering a hooker a couple of years back.

[pintsofguinness]

Nonsense corn you'd be fit to identify someone, you most definitley would know if someone had dark or fair hair.  From my experiences in Bulgaria I'd be surprised if any of them were drunk. 

If you are plutered drunk and you saw the incident it is nonsense to suggest you would automatically be sober and a 100% reliable and able to pick out the minor details.

So you are saying there are no drunk people in Bulgaria or very few. For all you know the witnesses could be alcholics who were paid to lie. It would be the same assumption as saying Micahel's friends are liars.

No it wouldnt corn and for all you know they could be all be stone cold sober. 

[bingobus]

Nonsense corn you'd be fit to identify someone, you most definitley would know if someone had dark or fair hair.  From my experiences in Bulgaria I'd be surprised if any of them were drunk. 

Or if they had a white or cream T-Shirt   

[pintsofguinness]

yes because white and cream are totally different colours, like red and blue 
Most people, particularly men, would describe cream or ivory as white. 

[GalwayBayBoy]

It was actually described as a beige rather then cream t-shirt that Shields had. The attacker wore a white shirt.

Now if these Bulgarians were as sober as pints makes out I would imagine they could tell the difference between white and beige and if they couldn't then would you trust them to pick out one overweight English tourist from another.

Not that they had much difficulty anyway as there was only one pasty overweight foreigner in the police lineup to choose from.