Irish Swell British Army Ranks

[his holiness nb]

Lads, why give this guy any attention??
His posts on this thread have shown some truly shocking anti Irish bigotry, along with lies and insults.
A wind up merchant if I ever saw one.

[Zapatista]

Lads, why give this guy any attention??
His posts on this thread have shown some truly shocking anti Irish bigotry, along with lies and insults.
A wind up merchant if I ever saw one.

I wouldn't be surprised if the posts are coming from a computer currently held in a PSNI forensic lab

[his holiness nb]

True, probably the most insulting posts since the bards endorsement of the famine song and wishing death on posters on here.

Roger, you wouldnt happen to be a UUP councillor would you? 

[Roger]

Either way you have changed your point from first post to last by moving from a position of mocking Irish culture to claiming to be excluded from it due to various reasons.

I explained my jaundiced view on the dominant "Irish culture" in relation to games (made up for Political reasons), a cobbled together language which has been hijacked for Political reasons, and the main day in Irish culture is a leprechaun booze up and songs lamenting how bad Britain is. Those are the main highlights of modern Irish culture as different from British culture in my view and I stand by that original post yet the Irish have been big contributors to British culture, country and army.  So why the surprise that Irishmen are in the army??

I would suggest if you want to engage in "reasonable, interesting and informative" debate you would select something akin to the latter position so we could look at those reasons that contribute to your alienation, rather than having to deal with blanket insults.

When one asks about Irish culture or one sees evidence of Irish culture people don't talk about or see the Book of Kells or the Annals of the Kingdom of Ireland and yet these are things that are actually historically interesting and a much wider perspective of Ireland and how it has come to be where it is now. What you do hear about is games, language, songs etc which by and large are pretty much anti-Brit and dominated by a mono-cultural view of Ireland which totally denies the true nature of Ireland in my view. Whether this is true or not for all of Ireland, then I defer to your better knowledge but in this part of Ireland and from my experience of the Republic that's the case.

And as for the actual thread started.  The title of the original article is a nonsense by your reasoning.  If the Irish were always joining the British Army "for hundreds of years" then the current climate is no different really and doesn't deserve comment.  As for Sinn Féin/republicans being unhappy about it: what do you expect given their political outlook?

Agree, I think I have expressed my view with more frustration than you find suitable and apologies for anything you found insulting in doing so.

[Fear ón Srath Bán]

When you're a paid carrier of lethal arms in the service of another country, specifically when that same country pursues operations of occupation and suppression overseas, you're a mercenary, never a 'soldier'.

Nonsense. Or would you consider e.g. people from many parts of the world who joined the fight against the Nazis, prior to any involvement by their own countries, to be "mercenaries"? Or the (British) Indian Army in 1939, perhaps? You know, the largest volunteer army the world has ever seen?

Erm, in case it has slipped your notice, neither the Afghans nor the Iraqis posed any kind of expansionist problem. And despite Saddam's designs on sadism, he wasn't quite in the same league as Hitler. So, my point remains, when non-native nationals enlist for an army other than their own, when that army is currently involved in offensive aggression, they're mercenaries.

Mercenaries fight purely for money, and will even switch sides and fight against their former comrades, if offered more money. Moreover, they serve in all sorts of conflicts, involving all sorts of shady militias etc, which follow no rules of war and who wouldn't recognise e.g. the Geneva Convention if it were tattooed on their arse.

Yep.

Whereas when ROI recruits join the British Army, they are joining legally constituted, internationally recognised armed forces, often serving directly on behalf of the EU, NATO or the UN, as in Afghanistan, Cyprus or Sierra Leone, for example. To compare them to mercenaries who e.g. join some rebel force which is seeking to overthrow a Dictator somewhere in Africa, for instance, is an insult to the integrity of recruits concerned, as well as an insult to the intelligence of the rest of us.  

Would this be the same kind of international recognition as that was afforded Saddam in the 1980s, or the international recognition of Hitler's seizure of the Sudetenland, a recognition bestowed by Chamberlain no less (and Daladier), in 1938?

These guys want to be professional soldiers, like countlless numbers of Irishmen before them. As to their choice of army, why should it be so surprising if, for instance, they viewed the recent RIR homecoming parade, and decided they wanted to serve with an Irish Regiment of an undefeated army, as they marched proudly through the streets of an Irish city, to the sound of thousands of cheering Irish men, women and children?  

"undeafeated army"?!... Like Afghanistan and Iraq have been such resounding victories. And why couldn't the British Army parade through a city in Britain, why is it that no Britons wanted them to parade through their town or city? Was that because they were fighting such a glorious and virtuous war? Or was it more that the Britons could see it for what it was, and that that wasn't pretty.

[GalwayBayBoy]

a cobbled together language which has been hijacked for Political reasons

The earliest writings in Irish date back to the 4th century AD. How on earth is that a cobbled together language? It has evolved and changed over time like any langauge does. Your recent posts are certainly doing you no favours.

[Fear ón Srath Bán]

A few made up sports heavily submerged in anti-British stuff, a cobbled together language hi-jacked by the most anti-British...

Probably one of the most stupid statements on this board I've had the misfortune to bear witness to (yep, that's saying something!) 

• Irish is the oldest written language in Europe (Basque being the oldest spoken)
• Only about a millenium older than the English language
• Not cobbled together from various linguistic roots, i.e., not a melange of latin and germanic tongues (like English)

[Main Street]

Personally I thought that this was the most revealing. Roger has the direct line to the true nature of Ireland.

"What you do hear about is games, language, songs etc which by and large are pretty much anti-Brit and dominated by a mono-cultural view of Ireland which totally denies the true nature of Ireland in my view"

[Roger]

I think you'll find that I gave my view and the perception that is Irish culture.  I don't know anyone who thinks of the Book of Kells as the dominant thing in Irish culture. I never claimed a "direct line" or any such thing. 

Viewpoints are clearly not welcomed here if they aren't popular and perceptions if not accurate to someone else's perceptions are "stupid". It would be wonderful to live in a simplistic world but it clearly exists only here and nowhere else 

[Roger]

Just because something promotes Irish culture, be it the GAA, promotion of the Irish language, etc., does not mean that it is automatically anti-British. I think this is a major point Roger fails to understand.

GAA is anti-British and I believe the language is hijacked by the most anti-British.  Pity these things are the dominant make up of what is perceived as Irish culture.  As I have stated this has been detrimental to understanding and indeed ownership / contribution of others.

[small white mayoman]

few made up sports heavily submerged in anti-British stuff, a cobbled together language hi-jacked by the most anti-British, and dressing up as leprechauns on St Patrick's (a Brit) day and getting pished to then sing traditional laments generally about how bad the Brits are.  Riverdance wasn't bad mind.

well this viewpoint is definately not welcome here    is that what you really think we are like as a people ?

[nifan]

Roder, it is obvious you do not know that many people involved with promoting the Irish language. From my experience there are some who would fit your view, but many others who certainly dont.

I don't know anyone who thinks of the Book of Kells as the dominant thing in Irish culture

And? It is a part of Irish culture. So is the language, music etc.

I

[Fear ón Srath Bán]

Viewpoints are clearly not welcomed here if they aren't popular and perceptions if not accurate to someone else's perceptions are "stupid".

I don't care much for the 'popularity' of viewpoints, much more for the veracity. Are you saying then that the only thing wrong with your remark about the Irish language is that it lacks popularity, but is otherwise enlightened?

[Roger]

I don't care much for the 'popularity' of viewpoints, much more for the veracity. Are you saying then that the only thing wrong with your remark about the Irish language is that it lacks popularity, but is otherwise enlightened?

The language has certainly been high-jacked in Northern Ireland for anti-Brit purposes and it is a fairly Political thing in the Republic as it is not for communication purposes. Jim Murphy explained about identity etc which is fair enough. But for me I couldn't care if it was Irish or English, cobbled, uncobbled, evolved or otherwise as long as I could communicate. The promotion of Irish is largely Political and not about communication.  For me hobbyists can get on with it but it has no value for me and is a Political issue that needn't be, but is.

[Roger]

Roder, it is obvious you do not know that many people involved with promoting the Irish language. From my experience there are some who would fit your view, but many others who certainly dont.

True.  I couldn't care about any language especially, but one that is fairly useless even less. If people want to learn it, fine. However, it is most apparent when it is being used for Political reasons. 

And? It is a part of Irish culture. So is the language, music etc.

I

True. But the contemporary culture of Ireland hardly oozes the Book of Kells and is more closely defined in things that are Political, usually with a strong whiff of 'Brits-to-blame' jammed together with what is actually British culture.