All Ireland Club Hurling Championship

[Asal Mor]

I'd be utterly amazed if Portumna thought they were 10-15 points better than Ballyhale. They would have known they were in for a huge battle. There's absolutely no way you go into  a game against Shefflin, Cha, The Reids, Fennelly and co. feeling complacent. It's a preposterous theory really. They were just beaten by a better team on the day. From reading this board one thing is clear - If you win anything in Ireland people will accuse you of being arrogant no matter how humble you are in victory.

[Reillers]

Reillers to be fair to them you don't speak too highly of anyone outside your own county. You constantly put teams like Kilkenny and players like Joe Canning etc down.

If you are reflective of the majority of Cork fans, I'm too far away to know, then you wouldn't be expecting them to be too favourable towards you!

If the players adopt the "everyone's against us mentality" you seem to have then you'll be ok for hunger this year anyway...

Don't remember ever putting Joe Canning down, I don't like Kilkenny, I don't like their style of play, but I've never thought anything other then the fact that they are an incredible team. Not the best team ever seen but an excellent team.

I don't go around saying that they have zero talent or that top class players who were neve really good anyway, are totally passed it. Or that they don't have any great players.
I don't go around showing no respect to teams or players that deserve it. Their arrogance is a step and above.

Who is then Reillers?

Cork of 2005/2006. Seriously Reillers actually believes they are superior to the current kilkenny team. He's not alone in Cork in thinking this. There are elements of the kilkenny support that are beyond arrogant- ran into a few on the Hill last year during the leinster final but all counties have their share of idiots. We've enough of them as well.
Ironic though as Corks fans are very hard to wear at times. But they aren't all bad. Know some bang on Cork fans but have met more idiots though. Tipps used to be pretty bad at one time but they've mellowed a lot since then. Corks can be hard to wear when they are on top.
In general kilkenny fans have been reasonably complementary about Dublin's semi resurgence. Your average kilkenny hurling fan is genuinely interested in the state of the game nationally rather than just their own county.

2004/2005 played much better hurling anyway. A hell of a lot easier on the eye. There have been better teams that have beaten better opposition. Kilkenny didn't have as much to work for or be tested when it came to their odd 2 difficult games a year. Things might have been a totally different story if we didn't throw it away in 03 or loose in 06, (till this day people still blame poor old Mulcahy) we could have easily won 4 and Cody would probably have went. Or so they say.

Or if Waterford didn't run out of steem in 07 and had KK in the final instead of Limerick and again, if Tipp hadn't run out of steam and gotten to the final instead of Waterford the year before last. We might have seen a different story. The wrong teams were in the final at the wrong time.

They're an excellent team. Don't get me wrong, and the poor sides put up in front of them were not their fault, and had nothing to do with them. They just beat what was put in front of them so we'll never know I suppose. But they'd little to beat and not much tested them. Were they the best, genuinely? Or were they the best of a poor lot? If Leinster had been as competitive as Munster was, would they have gotten as far? With that many teams with better standard, to play, not just being able to concentrate on peaking so late in the season, and having the luxury of doing so.

They're an excellent team with excellent players. But beside Cork in 06, (and even then maybe Waterford would have given them a better go) no one really tested them till Tipp did, who argueably should have won if it wasn't for their poor finishing and a bad few calls by the ref.

They're a great team and history will show them as one of the best. Stats wont tell the whole story though. I wont call them the best team ever because I don't think that something that could be judged. Do you?

I don't want this to be taken in the wrong way, that I'm having a go at KK, because they are a great team. One of the greats, but things could have been a lot different. But I suppose, shoulda woulda coulda..

At the end of the day it all seems to be these days is about tactics. KK stopped Cork winning the 3 in a row by counter attacking our running game by their blanket defence. We were figured out. It took a while but they eventually figured it out. KK's game is a lot harder to read and counter attack. That over physical game, borderline illegal, "dirty tactics" that refs for a long time never blew up on and still really don't. It was tolerated for a few years but it seems to be getting on peoples nerves more than ever now, be that biterness or what not. But players like Tommy Walsh, got an awful hard doing of it. Rightly or wrongly.
And teams are going for it now. Throwing the kitchen sink at them when it comes to the physical side of it, an eye for an eye, of sorts. And it's going as far as a lot of players wil get sent off. Tipp tried it almost won last years AI final and won the League game against them and beat them, Cork did it and beat them. (And ya it's the League and they'll be another monster completely come summer) but it's the point that stands. Meet them head on physically and take it from there.
Teams slowly seem to be figuring out how to beat KK.

(Knowing how is all good and well, but doing it is another matter.)

[heffo]

Just answer the question and forget all the other bullshi* - who are the best team of all time in Reillersland?

[awfulynice]

I'd be utterly amazed if Portumna thought they were 10-15 points better than Ballyhale. They would have known they were in for a huge battle. There's absolutely no way you go into  a game against Shefflin, Cha, The Reids, Fennelly and co. feeling complacent. It's a preposterous theory really. They were just beaten by a better team on the day. From reading this board one thing is clear - If you win anything in Ireland people will accuse you of being arrogant no matter how humble you are in victory.

No it isnt arrogance, and it isnt any begrudegery if you like to call it, If you wouldnt mind re reading my post, I said most hurling people, including myself truth be told thought they were 10 - 15 points better than any other club team in the country, and that is bound to lead to a bit of complacency. Im more than happy for Portumna, i celebrated with them when they won their all irelands and they are really only over the road from me. As I said in my first post Portumna will be back and Ballyhale wont be able to rest on their laurels if they wish to do two in a row

[bottlethrower7]

2004/2005 played much better hurling anyway.

arguably the worst set of forwards ever to win an all-Ireland

[Milltown Row2]

having watched Newtowshandrum many times twice at Croker (the rest on telly), and Portumna and Ballyhale i can safely say that Portumna and Ballyhale are better teams than Newtown.

Portumna will win the Galway Championship, will Ballyhale win the Kilkenny championship? what team will come out of Munster? Newtown were good team but always struggled to win there games (mostly came from behind) Ulster!! well the Dall will look to get to the Semi final stage again as will Dunloy and Loughgeil. but the bar at senior level has be raised considerably by Ballyhale and Portumna. i'd say it will be a couple of years before anyone else gets a look in.

[gallsman]

Reillers, your obsession with whining and moaning about Kilkenny, its teams and their supporters is starting to get a little bit worrying. That a Cork hurling man dares to call anyone arrogant beggars belief.

You can shove your People's Republic up your hole.

[Farrandeelin]

But surely isn't 'figuring out' how to win championships a sign of a good team, to figure out how to do it 4 years in succession without losing to Munster or Leinster teams must be an extra special team.

[Asal Mor]

Ah come on Reillers. I was cringing reading your last post. Do you even believe that sh!te yourself "kilkenny are a great team but........no opposition..................dirty tactics...............blanket defence................easy province.............Cork were on a break...............what if they'd lost this one............or we'd won that one............ blah blah blah". I enjoy reading your posts about Cork hurling and admire your passion for your county in a cynical age, but anytime you post about Kilkenny it's pure tripe.

[Reillers]

Ah come on Reillers. I was cringing reading your last post. Do you even believe that sh!te yourself "kilkenny are a great team but........no opposition..................dirty tactics...............blanket defence................easy province.............Cork were on a break...............what if they'd lost this one............or we'd won that one............ blah blah blah". I enjoy reading your posts about Cork hurling and admire your passion for your county in a cynical age, but anytime you post about Kilkenny it's pure tripe.

I was trying to get across the point that you can't call them the best team, and in my opinoin why. 
I mean what of what I've said is wrong?
Were Limerick and Waterford not appauling in their respective finals?
Do you not think things might have ended differently had Waterford and Tipp been in the finals when they should have been? Waterford on that kind of form that they were in 06 and 07, I mean who knows they might of had a better go at KK in 06 final than Cork did.
Are you saying they don't play with a borderline approach to the game? "Dirty tactics" is what alot of people call it, and you know, well you should know, that they get away with a lot. Teams have copped on to their tactics, and have played, shoulder to shoulder, physical hurling back to them, and it will end up with players getting sent off imo, but it's what teams are doing. Tipp did it in the final and in the League game against them and we did it in the League game against them aswell, and going by what their supporters have had to say about it, they didn't like getting it back in their face.
Are you saying they don't play with a blanket defence
I said nothing about Cork being on a break at all? Did I, can't find much I said about Cork in that post.

I mean what of what I've said is incorrect?

[Asal Mor]

Reillers I was probably a bit over the top with my last post but it seems you view things from whatever angle will take some of the gloss off Kilkenny's All-Irelands.
I agree that Waterford '07 and Tipp '08 would probably have given Kilkenny better games but they weren't good enough to win their semi-finals so i would say that makes the point irrelevant. I don't think either had a real chance of beating Kilkenny. What if Kilkenny had beaten Galway in that freakish semi of 05? Would Cork still have won? It doesn't matter of course because they didn't.
And yeah Kilkenny play it tough but I don't see any problem with that. It's like Cody said when asked if Tommy Walsh "played on the edge". He said that he'd hate to think Tommy Walsh didn't play on the edge. They aren't dirty though.

[Reillers]

Reillers I was probably a bit over the top with my last post but it seems you view things from whatever angle will take some of the gloss off Kilkenny's All-Irelands.
I agree that Waterford '07 and Tipp '08 would probably have given Kilkenny better games but they weren't good enough to win their semi-finals so i would say that makes the point irrelevant. I don't think either had a real chance of beating Kilkenny. What if Kilkenny had beaten Galway in that freakish semi of 05? Would Cork still have won? It doesn't matter of course because they didn't.
And yeah Kilkenny play it tough but I don't see any problem with that. It's like Cody said when asked if Tommy Walsh "played on the edge". He said that he'd hate to think Tommy Walsh didn't play on the edge. They aren't dirty though.

True.
I probably was a bit ott with my post the first time as well. I do tend to get carried away. They're a great team, I wont call them the best ever team because it's something that can't be judged. I do think they've flaws, all teams do obviously.

I honestly think Waterford could have beaten them and Tipp, if they'd played them in the right years, especially Waterford. But that's what if again. And at the end of the day it didn't happen. Which is what I mean when I say history will show them to be one of the greats, the stats just wont tell you the whole story.

And do I think they have it easier with Leinster, saying that they didn't is just denying the obvious. Of course they did.

They had weaker teams in Leinster than we had in Munster. You look back over the past 5 or 6 years and think of what were the best games you can remember from that period of time, and see how many games you think of with Munster teams in them, and how many that that involved Leinster teams. Fact, when you look back at the past few years, Munster was always stronger.
You'd teams beating off eachother, look at the Cork Waterford games, it was 07 when we played Waterford in Munster -3 of our best players who were suspended, and we were the width of the post away from getting a replay. That was a hell of match, break neck speed, the same year we met Waterford again and played them twice, both incredibly tight games, one ended in a replay. Two incredibly intense games. Waterford beat us in the end and should have went on to the final. But they had nothing left in the tank.

KK never needed to peak before the end of the season. It was different with Munster teams. We could never afford to put out 2/3rd string teams, no matter how good, because Tipp, Waterford, Cork..Clare and Limerick on their day, always gave a good match. And any of the first 3 could have beaten eachother on any given day. In Leinster KK would put aside any Leinster team with their "weak" team.
The Leinster teams gave up trying and saved themselves for the qualifiers. Ya it's a bit different now, they've Galway and Dublin has come on a lot, but not enough to really give them a go in Leinster. Nothing to make Cody play his strongest side.

Look that's just my opinion and I'm not alone in it. They are an incredible team. But circumstance helped, who knows they could still have won had they met the better teams or what not. But it's largely because of this which is why I wont call them the best team ever. It's impossible to judge.

As for their tactics. Some people are sick of KK's tactics now, they were ok till about last season or so. Iit really seems to have exploded in the media a bit. Especially with Tommy Walsh. People had a real go at him. And that really pissed off Cody if I remember rightly.

I don't like how they get away with so much with the ref, but I can't say that if Cork did, if we could get away with so much, and if we could win games like that, that I wouldn't want them to do it.

But teams now really seem to go for it against them, physically, and like I said, looking at the reactions we had against us and the way they reacted against Tipp, they weren't happy about it, and I think that's going to be how people approach games when they play them in the future. And it will in my opinion end with players getting sent off more and more, and things boiling over.

Teams seem to have it in their head that the only way to match KK is the eye for an eye way, not being bullied, and work from that.

[INDIANA]

Reillers the fact that you champions (ie munster champions) can't beat Kilkenny should tell you the current strength of the Munster championship.

Limerick- no team at present
Clare- div 2 outfit.
Tipp - a fine side
Cork - still a good side not as good as they used to be
Waterford- a good side

versus

Kilkenny- the best ever
Galway- a fine side
Wexford- a div 2 outfit
Dublin- a decent side
Offaly - a decent side

The alleged strength of the current Munster championship harps back to the 80's and 90's. thats the bottom line. I attend 3 Munster championship games every year for the last 20-25 years. I therefore am well versed to compare the two provinces and the current Munster championship isn't in a hapenny place to previous times. Its just not even close.
You're out of date on this one. Tipp v Cork in recent championship encounters has had all the cut and thrust of a seance compared to the late 80's.

[Reillers]

Reillers the fact that you champions (ie munster champions) can't beat Kilkenny should tell you the current strength of the Munster championship.

Limerick- no team at present
Clare- div 2 outfit.
Tipp - a fine side
Cork - still a good side not as good as they used to be
Waterford- a good side

versus

Kilkenny- the best ever
Galway- a fine side
Wexford- a div 2 outfit
Dublin- a decent side
Offaly - a decent side

The alleged strength of the current Munster championship harps back to the 80's and 90's. thats the bottom line. I attend 3 Munster championship games every year for the last 20-25 years. I therefore am well versed to compare the two provinces and the current Munster championship isn't in a hapenny place to previous times. Its just not even close.
You're out of date on this one. Tipp v Cork in recent championship encounters has had all the cut and thrust of a seance compared to the late 80's.

I disagree with you but I did say Munster from a few years ago. 4/5 I think it was I said. Never mind about now and I still believe that Munster still is stronger, I never said a word about way back when, and I made the point not to.

Over the last few years you can't deny that Munster was more competitive than Leinster. By far.

I mean even saying it now, every team in Munster could beat every team in Leinster, obviously not Kilkenny and some not Galway.
Whatever way the standard might have dropped as you said in Munster, it's still better than Leinster, even with Galway being brought in.

[heffo]

Reillers I was probably a bit over the top with my last post but it seems you view things from whatever angle will take some of the gloss off Kilkenny's All-Irelands.
I agree that Waterford '07 and Tipp '08 would probably have given Kilkenny better games but they weren't good enough to win their semi-finals so i would say that makes the point irrelevant. I don't think either had a real chance of beating Kilkenny. What if Kilkenny had beaten Galway in that freakish semi of 05? Would Cork still have won? It doesn't matter of course because they didn't.
And yeah Kilkenny play it tough but I don't see any problem with that. It's like Cody said when asked if Tommy Walsh "played on the edge". He said that he'd hate to think Tommy Walsh didn't play on the edge. They aren't dirty though.

I do tend to get carried away.

Tell me about it. Remember the time you called Bob Honohan (your clubmate and erstwhile colleague) 'not very nice' - it was a terrible slur on a fine servant to Cork GAA..