Once again.....Ireland's Call....

[magickingdom]

I dont know whats wrong with you boys, Irelands call is a cracker.

its definitely grown on me, quite like it now...

[pintsofguinness]

THe unionists are use to singing along to another country's national anthem at their soccer matches, why can't they sing along to, what they preceive, is another country's national anthem at rugby games? 

[J70]

You have to laugh. On the one hand you have the idiots who cannot see past the end of their own nose and accept that the IRFU's use of Ireland's Call, which in itself may not be a great anthem, is a noble effort to include the significant proportion of the island who are unionist and on the other, you have the likes of this gentleman, who completely ignores the spirit of the IRFU's clumsy efforts and throws the baby out with the bathwater because GSTQ wasn't played.

Ireland's call was never composed as a compromise for unionist inclusion.  Ireland's call was composed to give the IRFU's Ireland rugby team an anthem to represent them at away matches which they never had.  The World Cup meant the Ireland team was the only team without an anthem. 

The recent policy (new in 2007) to have Ireland's Call at all games but accompanied by the Soldiers Song when playing in the Republic of Ireland is simply a sop to nationalists / republicans and actually is a new exclusion and insult to unionists since the policy is a new one.  The republican/nationalist dominated IRFU showed their incompetence in handling the political realities of their sporting jurisdiction covering two states by clumsily labeling any Ireland matches played in Northern Ireland to be away matches and therefore not in Ireland 

Whatever about the origins of the song, it is an acceptable compromise until someone comes up with something better. And personally I think that if they are going to play A na bF in games in the Republic because it is the national anthem there, then they should do the same with GSTQ at Ravenhill. The superior option is to just leave it at Ireland's Call everywhere however. That way, no one is happy, but no one is getting slighted either. Its like trying to please a bunch of children.

[Main Street]

The way you put that is misleading.  The new policy is now a direct snub to the National Anthem of a jurisdiction within the IRFU ie NI, for Political reasons of those from the other jurisdiction. The IRFU made a complete balls of trying to implement this ridiculous new policy which made a mockery of an agreement on the policy which for 50 years was agreed. Now it's simply a case of 'Your's is out of bounds as we find it offensive, but even though you find our's offensive, f**k ye'.  Not good for Irish rugby and since 2007 I now find myself sitting down when the Soldier Song is played at games in Dublin.  I wouldn't respect that song on these occasions when previously I have stood for the song.   

I assume the reps of the 4 federations in the IRFU sat down and worked out a policy for the playing of AnbF and voted on it according to the constitution of the IRFU. I assume that nothing is immune to change.
So if they made a balls of it, at least they did it constitutionally and with the full complicity of Ulster Rugby.

which made a mockery of an agreement on the policy which for 50 years was agreed

What sense do you make out of this story around the "gentlemans agreement" that you refer to?
http://www.guardian.co.uk/sport/2007/feb/27/comment.gdnsport3

I understand from that article, the agreement was  (after a big stand off by the Southern contingent) the team in 1954 would stand for the Ulster salute, the abbreviated version of GSTQ, just that once  and in return for that 15 seconds of respect - the IRFU would never again play at Ravenhill.
Up until the Italy game it looks like that has been the case.

Irish rugby isn't exactly a hotbed of republicanism it has no problem with respect for Ulster Unionists but the limit appears to be drawn at standing straight for GSTQ.

[Hardy]

From reading the comments on that article, I've found a new admiration for the people of Ukraine. Apparently the first line of their anthem is "Ukraine is not dead yet".

Rousing stuff.

[winsamsoon]

J70 you are saying that it is an acceptable compromise, we'll there are a lot of lads on here that will tell you differently myself included. It is not like trying to please a bunch of children either because the lads that are against this have genuine concerns over the issue.

one of the lads have already posted saying about the inclusivity of the whole issue surrounding the anthems. If it is supposed to be inclusive of all how is it that they play both anthems at home and they only play Irelands call at away games. Now they have moved from playing A NA B both home and away to introducing a new song for home  with A Na B and just playing Irelands call away. So tell me what compromise is in that for the Irish people that had no objections to start with.??

It Is very clear the IRFU is supposed to be an all Ireland body. Knowing from the onset that the anthem was A Na B when they became an All Ireland body then they should have objected at this stage. But to suddenly crack the whips some years down the line and the IRFU to jump for them is totally wrong. You can't have everything your own way. If certain Ulster players had problems with the Anthem then they are clearly not Irish and shouldn't be playing for Ireland. Irish people will stand for their national Anthem without any objections. If they are claiming to be British or any other nationality then that is entirely up to their own personal choice. However a smaller section of the Irish rugby team should not be allowed to hold the rest to ransom. In truth it is another example of politics wining over sport.

[Hardy]

It's an amazing world where people and politicians can accommodate their political beliefs in an agreed compromise to facilitate working together but it's unacceptable to some to move an inch on which stupid song we have to have played before a match.

[thejuice]

It's an amazing world where people and politicians can accommodate their political beliefs in an agreed compromise to facilitate working together but it's unacceptable to some to move an inch on which stupid song we have to have played before a match.

I agree, I wasnt joking when I suggested Conway Twitty.

[supersarsfields]

Winsamsoon I can see were your coming from but can you not see the issue the unionists might have.
I mean which would you rather just stick with IC and have a full Ireland Team or break the team up into two parts and and each play what ever they wanted?
While IC isn't ideal it's still better than the second option.

[illdecide]

The thing that bugs me is if the Ulster players don't want the Irish anthem and want Ireland call why are they there in the first place, assuming they have British passports why would they want to play for a foreign country. When our anthem's playing i get really fired up and the goose bumps appear sometimes the odd tear in my eyes and wana jump from the stands and rip somebody's neck out...(even though i couldn't beat Casey's drum...lol) so what's going thru the heads of the Ulster players during the anthem...

[Roger]

I assume the reps of the 4 federations in the IRFU sat down and worked out a policy for the playing of AnbF and voted on it according to the constitution of the IRFU. I assume that nothing is immune to change.
So if they made a balls of it, at least they did it constitutionally and with the full complicity of Ulster Rugby.

I think that the Ulster Branch didn't consider the view of players and supporters and were blinded by the Ulster Branch being given all the revenue from the Italy game with a condition that Ireland's Call was the only anthem. The Ulster branch represents the game in two states / Political jurisdictions  and it would seem a reasonable position.  Most people in Northern Ireland involved in the sport would also be of the opinion that a single jurisdiction Anthem to represent both jurisdictions is not on. However, by then playing the SS at the next game was just wrong and I don't think the IRFU handled this properly at all.  Just because the democratically elected representatives in IRFU overlooked this issue and have made a mistake doesn't mean it is right.

What sense do you make out of this story around the "gentlemans agreement" that you refer to?
http://www.guardian.co.uk/sport/2007/feb/27/comment.gdnsport3

I understand from that article, the agreement was  (after a big stand off by the Southern contingent) the team in 1954 would stand for the Ulster salute, the abbreviated version of GSTQ, just that once  and in return for that 15 seconds of respect - the IRFU would never again play at Ravenhill.
Up until the Italy game it looks like that has been the case.

The agreement was pretty much well known and the conventional policy by the IRFU.  The IRFU would play the Anthem of the relevant jurisdiction when games were played in Ireland. They did this knowing that Belfast wasn't planned to ever hold games again as Lansdowne Road was being developed and was considerably bigger than Ravenhill. Northern Irish people in the sport were happy enough with the situation as the sport avoids Politics and it was a reasonable policy about relatively small issue even if not perfect and slightly annoying. Players and supporters accepted this for years and respected the SS, myself included. I am involved in the game and know a number of former and a number of my family represented Ireland too.  They are not happy with the current situation and feel they were conned and it is now considered offensive to think the Ireland team has a Political anthem not just unrepresentative but unacceptable.  No more or less so than GSTQ representing the Ireland team.

Irish rugby isn't exactly a hotbed of republicanism it has no problem with respect for Ulster Unionists but the limit appears to be drawn at standing straight for GSTQ.

Then you would understand the reason why the limits for Unionists are standing straight for the SS. The respect was always there within the sport but it has been seriously tarnished by this Politcally arrogant and offensive new policy.  Those that say it is Ireland and Ireland's Anthem is the SS are just showing their ignorance about the history of Ireland and the history of the sport in Ireland. These views and this policy is not good for Irish rugby.  If rugby isn't your thing then no worries. However, the ironic thing about it is that it simply reinforces the border and disrespect for the Republic of Ireland by Unionists in one of the few reasons that all communities and backgrounds come together in a common purpose for Ireland as a single identity. As it is, for Unionism it is probably more dangerous if the IRFU did the right thing. To achieve the sentiments of the SS and that Political ethos it's going to take Unionist conversion and this sets back that by some way.

[saffron sam2]

Good to have you back Roger and it would appear that you haven't made the bard of dunclug's error by hiding your email.

My view is Amhran na bhFiann and the tricolour should not be used at International rugby matches if there are concerns about whether or not it represents everyone involved in rugby in Ireland.

However I would like to take Roger up on a couple of points (one of which Main Street has already done).

Then you would understand the reason why the limits for Unionists are standing straight for the SS. The respect was always there within the sport but it has been seriously tarnished by this Politcally arrogant and offensive new policy.  Those that say it is Ireland and Ireland's Anthem is the SS are just showing their ignorance about the history of Ireland and the history of the sport in Ireland. These views and this policy is not good for Irish rugby.  If rugby isn't your thing then no worries. However, the ironic thing about it is that it simply reinforces the border and disrespect for the Republic of Ireland by Unionists in one of the few reasons that all communities and backgrounds come together in a common purpose for Ireland as a single identity. As it is, for Unionism it is probably more dangerous if the IRFU did the right thing. To achieve the sentiments of the SS and that Political ethos it's going to take Unionist conversion and this sets back that by some way.

It isn't a new policy. The policy of not playing the English National Anthem at Ravenhill has been policy, as MS highlighted in the Guardian piece, since 1954. Why you choose to ignore this salient point, yet claim expertise in matters rugby concerns me. Now, before you start I have argued in the past that if the policy was AnabhF in the free state and GSTQ at Ravenhill, then GSTQ should have been played at the Italy match.

Secondly,

The agreement was pretty much well known and the conventional policy by the IRFU.  The IRFU would play the Anthem of the relevant jurisdiction when games were played in Ireland. They did this knowing that Belfast wasn't planned to ever hold games again as Lansdowne Road was being developed and was considerably bigger than Ravenhill. Northern Irish people in the sport were happy enough with the situation as the sport avoids Politics and it was a reasonable policy about relatively small issue even if not perfect and slightly annoying. Players and supporters accepted this for years and respected the SS, myself included. I am involved in the game and know a number of former and a number of my family represented Ireland too.  They are not happy with the current situation and feel they were conned and it is now considered offensive to think the Ireland team has a Political anthem not just unrepresentative but unacceptable.  No more or less so than GSTQ representing the Ireland team.

No you didn't, you sat on your big fat hole when it was being played. And then ran off to owc to boast about it.

On a tangentially related point, did you belt out the divisive, political English anthem at Windsor the other night?

[An Fear Rua]

"Players and supporters accepted this for years and respected the SS, myself included."

Do you sing the oppositions anthem when Ireland played England in Dublin?

[Main Street]

I think that the Ulster Branch didn't consider the view of players and supporters and were blinded by the Ulster Branch being given all the revenue from the Italy game with a condition that Ireland's Call was the only anthem. The Ulster branch represents the game in two states / Political jurisdictions  and it would seem a reasonable position.  Most people in Northern Ireland involved in the sport would also be of the opinion that a single jurisdiction Anthem to represent both jurisdictions is not on. However, by then playing the SS at the next game was just wrong and I don't think the IRFU handled this properly at all.  Just because the democratically elected representatives in IRFU overlooked this issue and have made a mistake doesn't mean it is right.

It would appear to me that the condition that Ireland's Call be the only anthem used after Ravenhill was more of a belief, not based on the IRFU board meeting decisions.
The rest of what you write makes some sense.
Down through the years, Rugby has been an important sport in Ulster and an indivisible component of Irish Rugby.
The highest honour is being selected to play for your federation's representative team and is a cause of celebration for the player, the club and the supporters. This anthem issue niggles, is divisive and needs to be resolved.
.

[mikerob]

Now they have moved from playing A NA B both home and away to introducing a new song for home  

The Ireland rugby team has NEVER used A NA B for away games.  Prior to the introduction of Ireland's Call, Ireland didn't have an anthem for away games. The home team's anthem was played, and that was it (although apparently there was some embarassment at the 1987 world cup when the Rose of Tralee was played 

Knowing from the onset that the anthem was A Na B when they became an All Ireland body then they should have objected at this stage.

The IRFU was founded in 1879 so pre-dates both partition and A Na B.