Tony Considine Sets His Standards.

[Zulu]

Oh right so, now I understand, Kilkenny were not fitter and faster to the ball and in particular stronger in the challenge than Waterford last Sunday!

It is well documented that the Waterford players felt the weren't fit enough at the start of the championship however I also know that the plan was to peak for August/sept. when Davy came in that went to pot. I would bet everything I have that if you tested a random sample of Kilkenny players against a random sample of IC players from the other top counties for aerobic fitness and strength you would find little difference.

You are right on one thing, I have no experience whatsoever of coaching, none, nor have I the direct involvement with backroom staff that you boast about.

Jesus wept, why is it if you say something about yourself on this site you are accused of boasting, it is no boast to say you know some people involved in the backrooms of IC teams in my book. I was just pointing out that I know a thing or two about what some county teams are doing.

How much of the €9 Million that was given out last year did your county get??  This is the very reason I have made another post on how this money is spent and I have been trying to get someone who knows everything to tell me how much their county gets.

I don't know but I fail to see what difference this makes. Are you suggesting that Kilkenny get more money or spend it better than other counties? Kilkenny have a large number of quality players most of whom want to play for Kilkenny that is the secret of their success, likewise Kerry in football. But many other counties have been putting a lot of money, time, resources and coaching expertise into their underage set ups and this will bear fruit in the future. Tipperary for example should be very strong in 2-3 years, Dublin are improving and Waterford's underage hurling set up has never been as strong.

[Bud Wiser]

I don't know but I fail to see what difference this makes. Are you suggesting that Kilkenny get more money or spend it better than other counties?

I am not suggesting it, I am stating it.  Number one they don't have to pay the travelling messiahs like Loughnane and Fitzgerald because like the successfull counties you mention, Kerry and Kilkenny, they should have managers from their own county.  That is why I am saying that these travelling messiahs as I call them should stay and develop hurling in their own counties - OR - let the GAA put some of the €9Million into selecting a coaching team of about a panel of ten with proper pay, somewhere in the region of €60,000 a year per man who would be employed on a full time basis going from school to school, or club to club and who would have gone through a qualification process.

Let me make a further point, when Laois were after reaching the Leinster Final under Mick O'Dwyer and there was a chance (or so they thought) of going all the way the year that we won the Leinster, do you think that in that year the hurlers in Ballinakill or Abbeyleix or Ballypickas saw any of the €400,250.00 that the Laois County Board got to "develop HURLING and football in the county."   I don't know, I am asking but I do know that the amount of money, hundreds of thousands, that has been spent on helicopters between Kerry and Athlone and Portlaoise and the 'expenses' of up to 100,000 a year could have been better spent- on hurling development.

There is a point of note that has eminated from the Kilkenny camp in most of the reports after the demolition of Waterford and it is that Cody has taken a step back from being a grabber of the limelight and has intimated that there are three or four of them involved in the selection, training at all times. That is better for hurling than those who go out with the "I'm a big man approach" and "I am going to win an All-Ireland with Galway in year one, or, definitely in year two" but they don't say they are going to do it by frightening the shit out of some young lad to an extent that he doesn't want to play at all.  Which is better for a hurling team, a proper structured management TEAM that have had the benifit of calling on professional coaches that are available throughout the country or someone who goes out with a shotgun and shoots oil cans off a wall wishing every time he pulls the trigger that it is someones head that has upset him by not agreeing with him.

I agree with Indiana about the skill sets.  Kilkenny players, any of them would rise a ball out of a bucket of stones. Watch other counties in a loose ball situation and you would swear they were trying to kill mice at a thrashing.  Watch other players making a clearance and you woulkd hook them from behind if you were walking around in a suit and one hand in your pocket, next thing happens the Cats have the ball and the short grip or the little circle in the strilke and the ball is over the bar at the other end. What is going to change this?  Not "Physicality" or the Clare way, only being taught the skills.

And my view is that half of the €9 million that the GAA have declared is being made available for development and split between the counties is used for precisely that, to be invested in hurling but not to put petrol or diesel in cars or fuel helicopters and meet expenses of 100,000 euro for one man bands who in later years are becoming, or think they have become more important than the players themselves.  For what its worth, I also think Considine was wrong for his public attack but then again, watching the episode of Davy on You Tube shows the difference between talking a tactical talk to your team and encouraging skill in the driven pass or the overhead pull on the dropping ball.  What that team were told before they went out (you tube) they could have been told in the local pub on the Saturday night before because if they were listening to that instead of proper coaching that is where they will probably end up.

[orangeman]

I don't know but I fail to see what difference this makes. Are you suggesting that Kilkenny get more money or spend it better than other counties?

I am not suggesting it, I am stating it.  Number one they don't have to pay the travelling messiahs like Loughnane and Fitzgerald because like the successfull counties you mention, Kerry and Kilkenny, they should have managers from their own county.  That is why I am saying that these travelling messiahs as I call them should stay and develop hurling in their own counties - OR - let the GAA put some of the €9Million into selecting a coaching team of about a panel of ten with proper pay, somewhere in the region of €60,000 a year per man who would be employed on a full time basis going from school to school, or club to club and who would have gone through a qualification process.

Let me make a further point, when Laois were after reaching the Leinster Final under Mick O'Dwyer and there was a chance (or so they thought) of going all the way the year that we won the Leinster, do you think that in that year the hurlers in Ballinakill or Abbeyleix or Ballypickas saw any of the €400,250.00 that the Laois County Board got to "develop HURLING and football in the county."   I don't know, I am asking but I do know that the amount of money, hundreds of thousands, that has been spent on helicopters between Kerry and Athlone and Portlaoise and the 'expenses' of up to 100,000 a year could have been better spent- on hurling development.

There is a point of note that has eminated from the Kilkenny camp in most of the reports after the demolition of Waterford and it is that Cody has taken a step back from being a grabber of the limelight and has intimated that there are three or four of them involved in the selection, training at all times. That is better for hurling than those who go out with the "I'm a big man approach" and "I am going to win an All-Ireland with Galway in year one, or, definitely in year two" but they don't say they are going to do it by frightening the shit out of some young lad to an extent that he doesn't want to play at all.  Which is better for a hurling team, a proper structured management TEAM that have had the benifit of calling on professional coaches that are available throughout the country or someone who goes out with a shotgun and shoots oil cans off a wall wishing every time he pulls the trigger that it is someones head that has upset him by not agreeing with him.

I agree with Indiana about the skill sets. Kilkenny players, any of them would rise a ball out of a bucket of stones. Watch other counties in a loose ball situation and you would swear they were trying to kill mice at a thrashing.  Watch other players making a clearance and you woulkd hook them from behind if you were walking around in a suit and one hand in your pocket, next thing happens the Cats have the ball and the short grip or the little circle in the strilke and the ball is over the bar at the other end. What is going to change this?  Not "Physicality" or the Clare way, only being taught the skills.
And my view is that half of the €9 million that the GAA have declared is being made available for development and split between the counties is used for precisely that, to be invested in hurling but not to put petrol or diesel in cars or fuel helicopters and meet expenses of 100,000 euro for one man bands who in later years are becoming, or think they have become more important than the players themselves.  For what its worth, I also think Considine was wrong for his public attack but then again, watching the episode of Davy on You Tube shows the difference between talking a tactical talk to your team and encouraging skill in the driven pass or the overhead pull on the dropping ball.  What that team were told before they went out (you tube) they could have been told in the local pub on the Saturday night before because if they were listening to that instead of proper coaching that is where they will probably end up.

No doubt about that and very well articulated Budweiser - but remember that this KK are ALL hurlers - how often do we get a team like this ? Has anyone come close to this level of perfection that we saw last Sunday ?

But teams come and teams go - KK won't do 5 or 6 in a row - they might win it next year - but then again they might not but other teams will do their damnnest to try.