Where has all our top forwards gone?

[sid waddell]

2017 will see the introduction of the mark into our game. I think this will have a HUGE affect on the game as you would imagine it will reward accurate kick passing a lot more than hand passing. When you think of players like Kieran Donaghy, Michael Murphy, Aidan O'Shea, D.Connolly, Conor McManus and Sean Cavanagh and how they struggled with being surrounded by swarm defenders when they caught the ball but now will these players be played back in on the edge of square and win easy 'frees' from the mark.
I think we are in for a huge culture shock on how this will change our game and how it will become so much more stop and start like Aussie rules is or do people think that it will be ignored and players will continue to hand pass to keep possession?

I don't believe it'll have a huge effect other than to eradicate the already small amount of clean catching at midfield we see in the game now.

A goalkeeper will usually only go long with a kickout (ie. kick it into a traditional midfield contest) if he's forced to these days.

If the team taking the kickout gets the mark, and the player who takes the mark is in any sort of free area, (ie. not bottled up by opposition players as he takes the catch) it makes sense to play on as quickly as possible before the opposing team has a chance to get back after they've pushed up on the kickout. Dublin got their first goal in the drawn final this year from a kickout that went longer than the Mayo midfielders had been anticipating. Why stop for the mark and let them get back? Just go right ahead and attack.

If the opposing team takes the mark and the player who takes the catch is not completely bottled up as he does so, it's a moment of transition. There's no point wasting it to let the defending team get back.

In a traditional contested midfield battle, the ball will be broken nearly every time anyway.

We see very little clean catching at midfield anyway these days. We'll probably see even less of it after the mark is introduced.

It's a ham fisted attempt to slow down the game in a game that is all about pace and strategy these days.

Ground hurling and overhead pulling have disappeared from hurling, clean midfield catching has all but disappeared in football. The traditionalists may not like it, but games evolve and any attempt to artificially bring back clean catching will likely only have the opposite effect.

[Fuzzman]

Ah sorry lads didn't realise that.
Yeah it won't make that much difference you would imagine unless you've got a very good fielder of the ball

[Jinxy]

2017 will see the introduction of the mark into our game. I think this will have a HUGE affect on the game as you would imagine it will reward accurate kick passing a lot more than hand passing. When you think of players like Kieran Donaghy, Michael Murphy, Aidan O'Shea, D.Connolly, Conor McManus and Sean Cavanagh and how they struggled with being surrounded by swarm defenders when they caught the ball but now will these players be played back in on the edge of square and win easy 'frees' from the mark.
I think we are in for a huge culture shock on how this will change our game and how it will become so much more stop and start like Aussie rules is or do people think that it will be ignored and players will continue to hand pass to keep possession?

I don't believe it'll have a huge effect other than to eradicate the already small amount of clean catching at midfield we see in the game now.

A goalkeeper will usually only go long with a kickout (ie. kick it into a traditional midfield contest) if he's forced to these days.

If the team taking the kickout gets the mark, and the player who takes the mark is in any sort of free area, (ie. not bottled up by opposition players as he takes the catch) it makes sense to play on as quickly as possible before the opposing team has a chance to get back after they've pushed up on the kickout. Dublin got their first goal in the drawn final this year from a kickout that went longer than the Mayo midfielders had been anticipating. Why stop for the mark and let them get back? Just go right ahead and attack.

If the opposing team takes the mark and the player who takes the catch is not completely bottled up as he does so, it's a moment of transition. There's no point wasting it to let the defending team get back.

In a traditional contested midfield battle, the ball will be broken nearly every time anyway.

We see very little clean catching at midfield anyway these days. We'll probably see even less of it after the mark is introduced.

It's a ham fisted attempt to slow down the game in a game that is all about pace and strategy these days.

Ground hurling and overhead pulling have disappeared from hurling, clean midfield catching has all but disappeared in football. The traditionalists may not like it, but games evolve and any attempt to artificially bring back clean catching will likely only have the opposite effect.

Why would you catch it when there are three lads on the ground waiting for you?

[twohands!!!]

2017 will see the introduction of the mark into our game. I think this will have a HUGE affect on the game as you would imagine it will reward accurate kick passing a lot more than hand passing. When you think of players like Kieran Donaghy, Michael Murphy, Aidan O'Shea, D.Connolly, Conor McManus and Sean Cavanagh and how they struggled with being surrounded by swarm defenders when they caught the ball but now will these players be played back in on the edge of square and win easy 'frees' from the mark.
I think we are in for a huge culture shock on how this will change our game and how it will become so much more stop and start like Aussie rules is or do people think that it will be ignored and players will continue to hand pass to keep possession?

I don't believe it'll have a huge effect other than to eradicate the already small amount of clean catching at midfield we see in the game now.

A goalkeeper will usually only go long with a kickout (ie. kick it into a traditional midfield contest) if he's forced to these days.

If the team taking the kickout gets the mark, and the player who takes the mark is in any sort of free area, (ie. not bottled up by opposition players as he takes the catch) it makes sense to play on as quickly as possible before the opposing team has a chance to get back after they've pushed up on the kickout. Dublin got their first goal in the drawn final this year from a kickout that went longer than the Mayo midfielders had been anticipating. Why stop for the mark and let them get back? Just go right ahead and attack.

If the opposing team takes the mark and the player who takes the catch is not completely bottled up as he does so, it's a moment of transition. There's no point wasting it to let the defending team get back.

In a traditional contested midfield battle, the ball will be broken nearly every time anyway.

We see very little clean catching at midfield anyway these days. We'll probably see even less of it after the mark is introduced.

It's a ham fisted attempt to slow down the game in a game that is all about pace and strategy these days.

Ground hurling and overhead pulling have disappeared from hurling, clean midfield catching has all but disappeared in football. The traditionalists may not like it, but games evolve and any attempt to artificially bring back clean catching will likely only have the opposite effect.

Why would you catch it when there are three lads on the ground waiting for you?

The wording of the mark rule is

"When a player catches the ball cleanly from a Kick-Out without it touching the ground, on or past the 45m line nearest the KickOut point, he shall be awarded 'a Mark' by the Referee. The player awarded a 'Mark' shall have the options of (a) Taking a free kick or (b) Playing on immediately."

Aussie rules has a whole list of explicit rules on what is and what isn't allowed with the mark in terms of what defenders are allowed do.
The GAA in their wisdom have brought in the mark but offered no definition/clarification/explanation of what is or is not allowed, instead relying on good old fashioned common sense.

[Jinxy]

I know how the bloody mark works!
I was responding to Sid saying there's very little clean catching nowadays.

[rosnarun]

so the only real benefot of a mark woulf be from a kick out that would land around the half way line.
all the more reason for the opposition to knock it down.
I hate these  problem solving one off rule changes that usually cause as many problems as they solve. the black card being an obvious  one.
Rule changes should be few and far between and given serious consideration onhow it will affect the games as a whole,  not just the issue that the journalist have picked on that week.

[Jinxy]

For those of you who are opposed to the mark, there's a very obvious question I would like an answer to.
If, as you say, this will neither encourage players to try and catch the ball, or increase the amount of balls caught, then what bloody difference will the rule make to the game?
How can a rule negatively affect a sport if it is never actually implemented?
Either someone will catch the ball and be rewarded with a mark, or no one will catch the ball and it'll be business as usual.
Am I missing something here?

[BennyCake]

I honestly think 11 a side. Take 8 players out of the equation, and there will be a hell of a lot more room - for big midfielders, corner forwards and goalkeepers to kick to. Even if teams do swarm or play the blanket, it can't be as smothering as now. If they do, there's lots more space in other areas. They won't want to be caught out so they won't crowd out as much.

The mark will make feck all difference. It's more space is what's needed.

[screenexile]

For those of you who are opposed to the mark, there's a very obvious question I would like an answer to.
If, as you say, this will neither encourage players to try and catch the ball, or increase the amount of balls caught, then what bloody difference will the rule make to the game?
How can a rule negatively affect a sport if it is never actually implemented?
Either someone will catch the ball and be rewarded with a mark, or no one will catch the ball and it'll be business as usual.
Am I missing something here?

My initial understanding of the mark was that it would be compulsory for the ball to be kicked past the 45... Obviously this is not the case so keepers will still look for the handy 15-20 yard dink to the corner back in front of them for it to take 20 seconds to carry the ball up to the opposition 45 where they will meet a wall of defenders go across and back the pitch YAWN f**king YAWN!!

The mark will have no discernible effect on the game as it stand currently and it could have if they had made kicking the ball past the 45 compulsory!

[take_yer_points]

For those of you who are opposed to the mark, there's a very obvious question I would like an answer to.
If, as you say, this will neither encourage players to try and catch the ball, or increase the amount of balls caught, then what bloody difference will the rule make to the game?
How can a rule negatively affect a sport if it is never actually implemented?
Either someone will catch the ball and be rewarded with a mark, or no one will catch the ball and it'll be business as usual.
Am I missing something here?

My initial understanding of the mark was that it would be compulsory for the ball to be kicked past the 45... Obviously this is not the case so keepers will still look for the handy 15-20 yard dink to the corner back in front of them for it to take 20 seconds to carry the ball up to the opposition 45 where they will meet a wall of defenders go across and back the pitch YAWN f**king YAWN!!

The mark will have no discernible effect on the game as it stand currently and it could have if they had made kicking the ball past the 45 compulsory!

A quote from a few posts before yours??

"When a player catches the ball cleanly from a Kick-Out without it touching the ground, on or past the 45m line nearest the KickOut point, he shall be awarded 'a Mark' by the Referee. The player awarded a 'Mark' shall have the options of (a) Taking a free kick or (b) Playing on immediately."

[Captain Obvious]

I blame Tyrone & Donegal in that order.

Plenty have talked the last few weeks on how difficult it was for forwards to break down the Mayo,Dublin blanket defences however Tyrones ultra defensive line was on a different level just 0-5,0-6,0-9 is all they conceded in the quarter,semi and All Ireland final.

[sid waddell]

For those of you who are opposed to the mark, there's a very obvious question I would like an answer to.
If, as you say, this will neither encourage players to try and catch the ball, or increase the amount of balls caught, then what bloody difference will the rule make to the game?
How can a rule negatively affect a sport if it is never actually implemented?
Either someone will catch the ball and be rewarded with a mark, or no one will catch the ball and it'll be business as usual.
Am I missing something here?

It'll mean that in the rare instances where there is a midfield contest from a kickout, whereas before, players may have occasionally allowed an opponent to catch it and then attempt to bunch him as he comes down, stopping a clean catch will now be even more important than previously, meaning there will be less clean catching than the already small amount that occurs pre-rule change.

The reality is that the ability to make a traditional clean high catch is probably less important for midfielders now than it is for most positions.

It won't have a massive effect on the way the game is played, it'll just increase the propensity for negativity at kickouts a little bit more.

[ONeill]

There's not one Tyrone forward I look forward to seeing something special from, unless you call Peter Harte a forward. Sean Cavanagh can produce moments of brilliance but sure he's nearly as oul as me.

In fact, in Ulster, I can't think of anyone who has a level of skill that makes you rise out of your seat. Come to think of it, there's no one in the country. Maybe it's old age cynicism. Or maybe it's a robotic game right now.

[ONeill]

Unpredictability is the word I'm looking for. Someone who plays an exquisite pass, or works a goal from a situation no one else would even think of.

Feck defenders. They've always been boring.

[muppet]

Maurice Fitz and Canavan wouldn't have done as well with today's packed defences. Don't get me wrong, they would still have been the top players, but they would have had little or no space.