Where,What,How for the GAA in Armagh?

[smelmoth]

Reading this thread you'd think Armagh GAA had been rubbed out and needed drawn again.

I for one am disappointed at how this season finished but to suggest that Armagh football is in disarray is somewhat off the mark.

I think that is an over-reaction. I have read no mention of disarray or needing a redraw.

I dunno why people question McGeeney, for a man who who had no experience to do what he did in Kildare ain't too bad

There is zero logic in this. A manager is judged on his results/performances especially in the key games. The excuse of "he is inexperienced and must be tolerated on that basis" doesn't cut it. And it doesn't apply now as he is an experienced manager now.

He turned them into a genuine force that teams generally did not want to meet.

What were the results like in big games? Games against the top 8 or 10. Knock out gamnes in Croke Park? Honest question. If the results were good - lets call them good. If there were middling - lets call them middling. If they were poor lets call them poor. Let the answer be honest also.

And for those who say he bankrupted Kildare GAA, have a fcukin word with yourself he wasn't the treasurer 

This is the old David O'Leary and Harry Redknapp excuse. There is no doubt that officials in Kildare sanctioned the expenditures and must shoulder blame. But a manager that arives with a programme that requires funding that just isnt there is not excused responsibility. Don't give the old smokescreen about how much money McGeeney brings in.

In terms of next year I think on the personnel front McGeeney has one simple task - ensure no further retirements and I have McKeever in mind here. If he could persuade AK to come back that would be immense as the team is lacking leaders as someone has said and Aaron still has plenty to offer. Get Dyas fit and there's three big players already.

Would agree with this. Moriarty might retire and AK is unlikely to return

This team will run through walls for geezer (bar maybe one person) which is arguably one of the hardest attributes to find in a manager these days.

We heard this phrase last year. What does it mean? How has it worked ouut this year?

If it means players programmed for one tactic and not equiped to left their heads, see what is in front of them, think and execute then frankly we have had enough of that already.
If it menas players not prepared to cede one inch physically even if that means ineffective tackling, poor discipline and senselessly getting on the wrong side of referees then we have enough of that also.

I'll be watching next year with interest to see how the team progresses, I genuinely think we have the players to mount a proper challenge, the task is getting them (the forwards in particular) firing on all cylinders. A proper kick out strategy needs implemented also if he intends on pursuing with the same system.

Would agree with that but tell me how well equiped is the current managerial team to sort this out. Will they player enough forwards and play them fare enough up the pitch? Does it really take more than a season to get a kick out stratgey working? Will they continue to not mark on the opposition kick outs?

[general_lee]

@smelmoth: Can't be bothered utilising the quote function but to address your points:

1. Look at the first post. Also look at the name of the thread. Maybe it is named incorrectly and should mean "senior county team" and not "GAA in Armagh".

2. I agree. I am not saying he is inexperienced. Someone did earlier in the thread question whether he had ever cut his teeth at club level. Overall I think he did well with Kildare and there are plenty in that county would concur.

3. He took, for all intents and purposes, a distinctively mediocre team and made them a viable force. Levels that they haven't exceeded since. Do you disagree with those facts?

4. Yes it is. That's like saying a greedy developer isn't at fault when he takes a gamble buying land that never gets zoned for housing.

5. Moriarty a loss in terms of experience, Agree AK not likely to come back but we can dream.

6. You'd really need to ask brooky or someone. I think it means that they buy into what he is selling, they have his respect etc etc... I don't disagree that the team needs worked on but it is positive none the less that there are no ego clashes or walkouts etc.

7. Agree with everything you say. If this time next year these points aren't addressed I'll be the first man calling for McGeeney to quit.

[Armamike]

It's been said a few times that players would run through brick walls for McGeeney. Sorry, but where was the evidence for this on the pitch this year? If that was the case the proof would be in the intensity, closing down, swarming, hard hits etc. I didn't see too much of any of this from the Armagh team this year.

[smelmoth]

@smelmoth: Can't be bothered utilising the quote function but to address your points:

1. Look at the first post. Also look at the name of the thread. Maybe it is named incorrectly and should mean "senior county team" and not "GAA in Armagh".

2. I agree. I am not saying he is inexperienced. Someone did earlier in the thread question whether he had ever cut his teeth at club level. Overall I think he did well with Kildare and there are plenty in that county would concur.

3. He took, for all intents and purposes, a distinctively mediocre team and made them a viable force. Levels that they haven't exceeded since. Do you disagree with those facts?

4. Yes it is. That's like saying a greedy developer isn't at fault when he takes a gamble buying land that never gets zoned for housing.

5. Moriarty a loss in terms of experience, Agree AK not likely to come back but we can dream.

6. You'd really need to ask brooky or someone. I think it means that they buy into what he is selling, they have his respect etc etc... I don't disagree that the team needs worked on but it is positive none the less that there are no ego clashes or walkouts etc.

7. Agree with everything you say. If this time next year these points aren't addressed I'll be the first man calling for McGeeney to quit.

Point 3. You are correct in that he brought them to levels that they have been to since. How much of that is due to the legacy he left in terms of player development and especially forwards is an inponderable. Did he take to the level of viable force? Open to discussion but the weight of evidence must surely be in support of the No side of that discussion. Again what scalps did they take?

Point 4. Its lala land to think a manager can front up with runaway spending plans and not take any of the responsibility for the crippling legacy that this spending left behind.

Point 6 really baffles me. You use the phrase "this team will run through walls for Geezer". I ask you what you meant by this phrase and you refer me to Cieran McKeever for an answer!! Are you Ciaran McKeever? Otherwise it doesn't make sense.

[under the bar]

Point 6 is a joke. No player from Crossmaglen will run through walls for Kieran McGeeney.  If you speak to Cross people they will tell you McGeeney is not a good manager. 

[general_lee]

@smelmoth: Can't be bothered utilising the quote function but to address your points:

1. Look at the first post. Also look at the name of the thread. Maybe it is named incorrectly and should mean "senior county team" and not "GAA in Armagh".

2. I agree. I am not saying he is inexperienced. Someone did earlier in the thread question whether he had ever cut his teeth at club level. Overall I think he did well with Kildare and there are plenty in that county would concur.

3. He took, for all intents and purposes, a distinctively mediocre team and made them a viable force. Levels that they haven't exceeded since. Do you disagree with those facts?

4. Yes it is. That's like saying a greedy developer isn't at fault when he takes a gamble buying land that never gets zoned for housing.

5. Moriarty a loss in terms of experience, Agree AK not likely to come back but we can dream.

6. You'd really need to ask brooky or someone. I think it means that they buy into what he is selling, they have his respect etc etc... I don't disagree that the team needs worked on but it is positive none the less that there are no ego clashes or walkouts etc.

7. Agree with everything you say. If this time next year these points aren't addressed I'll be the first man calling for McGeeney to quit.

Point 3. You are correct in that he brought them to levels that they have been to since. How much of that is due to the legacy he left in terms of player development and especially forwards is an inponderable. Did he take to the level of viable force? Open to discussion but the weight of evidence must surely be in support of the No side of that discussion. Again what scalps did they take?

Point 4. Its lala land to think a manager can front up with runaway spending plans and not take any of the responsibility for the crippling legacy that this spending left behind.

Point 6 really baffles me. You use the phrase "this team will run through walls for Geezer". I ask you what you meant by this phrase and you refer me to Cieran McKeever for an answer!! Are you Ciaran McKeever? Otherwise it doesn't make sense.

Scalps or no scalps he did well with Kildare. His legacy can't be helped by the fact that a rake of players including Doyle and Early retired.

Mismanagement  of finances isn't McGeeney or any other coaches concern I'm afraid. He may be an expensive man to have around but it's not him that is in charge of the purse strings.

Run through walls can mean anything. I tell you to ask McKeever cos he's the one said it! If players come out and say something like that it means they have full faith in the manager. That's promising given it's his first year (proper) in charge. That is why I brought it up. Maybe the strict adherence to the game plan is testament to that?

Point 6 is a joke. No player from Crossmaglen will run through walls for Kieran McGeeney.  If you speak to Cross people they will tell you McGeeney is not a good manager. 

Well our boy isn't just as well we have 46 other clubs to consult with.

[Beffs]

Scalps or no scalps he did well with Kildare. His legacy can't be helped by the fact that a rake of players including Doyle and Early retired.

How can you say that scalps or no scalps, he still did well? I don't get that at all.

Surely the very definition of doing well, is beating the big teams, on the big, knockout days in Croker, no? He never did that, so how can he still be called successful?

Did he do well against very poor opposition in Leinster? Yes, he did. Did he do well against Div 2-4 counties in the qualifiers? Yes, he did. But I doubt if most people would judge that as being successful over all? They certainly wouldn't in Mayo, Donegal, Dublin, Kerry etc.

[smelmoth]

Kildare were in Division 2 for of McGeeneys time there, they were a Division 1 team in his final year. and lucky enough to get promoted in the end. Not a great return since he was there 6 years.

Will that same team not be in division 3 next year?

Aye but its hard to recall a performance like tonight's from the McGeeney era

[Applesisapples]

You can have the best manager in the world, if he doesn't have the players he is never going to get results. I think Geezer needs to be given some time to develop the team and the setup. Kildare were no world beaters under Micko who had better and younger resources.
Lets see what happens in Div  2 and beyond. I would agree that we need some more Cross players in but if they are not buying into the County team what do you do?

[general_lee]

You can have the best manager in the world, if he doesn't have the players he is never going to get results. I think Geezer needs to be given some time to develop the team and the setup. Kildare were no world beaters under Micko who had better and younger resources.
Lets see what happens in Div  2 and beyond. I agree that we need some more Cross players in but if they are not buying into the County team what do you do?

if only it was that easy. If the rest of them don't buy into it, f**k them. In any case other than AK and maybe K Carragher I dunno who else you're on about - I want the best players in the county playing for Armagh regardless of who their club is. Nippy Swift for one should be asked back. Hopefully McGeeney takes in plenty of club action in the forthcoming weeks and maybe spots a few diamonds in the rough.

[Applesisapples]

You can have the best manager in the world, if he doesn't have the players he is never going to get results. I think Geezer needs to be given some time to develop the team and the setup. Kildare were no world beaters under Micko who had better and younger resources.
Lets see what happens in Div  2 and beyond. I agree that we need some more Cross players in but if they are not buying into the County team what do you do?

if only it was that easy. If the rest of them don't buy into it, f**k them. In any case other than AK and maybe K Carragher I dunno who else you're on about - I want the best players in the county playing for Armagh regardless of who their club is. Nippy Swift for one should be asked back. Hopefully McGeeney takes in plenty of club action in the forthcoming weeks and maybe spots a few diamonds in the rough.

Cross players have a swagger absent from most other clubs in Armagh, they might not be better players, but they KNOW they are. They would bring a winning mentality. But I would concur that if they don't buy into it then there's not much can be done. But the rest of the county also needs to get over their chip about Cross.