The State Of Gaelic Football

[BennyHarp]

Oh absolutely Benny. Like I said it was more for illustration than actually saying you'd be happy as coach to concede that. However the point I'm making with the sentence you highlighted was that I wouldn't be overly concerned about results with underage and instead I'm trying to develop footballers who will be able to both attack and defend properly as adults. Being able to defend, tackle, block, harry, delay etc. are skills just as important as kicking points but my response to conceding scores, as an underage coach, wouldn't be to go down a blanket defence route it would be to look at why we concede so much - are we able to mark? can we block the ball? are we making bad decisions with the ball and giving it away too easily? In other words, how can I make these guys better footballers. IMO, if you got an U14 team to play a blanket defence you might help them win a county when they mightn't be the best team in the county but are you helping them to become better footballers? For me, every age group up to U16 should be heavily weighted towards improving the player and not achieving the result (doesn't mean you ignore tactics btw), at minor the result matters more but not entirely at the cost of player development. If you are brave enough to follow that path when many club members might accuse you of using naive tactics I think you'll provide hugely capable senior players who will, if they are good enough, win you championships regardless of the tactics they face or are asked to employ.

Can't argue with any of that. The approach to underage has got to be the development of the whole player and not to develop a player within a system. Unfortunately we have plenty of yahoos taking underage teams whose big success as a coach would be winning the county U14 championship and follow the tactics they see employed at senior level to achieve this...........I still don't believe this means that the tactics used at senior level are necessarily wrong though. 

[Croí na hÉireann]

Looking to add to my (basic) stock of drills and conditioned games, any tips, online resourses, etc?

[AZOffaly]

Looking to add to my (basic) stock of drills and conditioned games, any tips, online resourses, etc?

What age group and what code?

[Zulu]

Looking to add to my (basic) stock of drills and conditioned games, any tips, online resourses, etc?

PM me and I'll send you on stuff.

[blewuporstuffed]

Oh absolutely Benny. Like I said it was more for illustration than actually saying you'd be happy as coach to concede that. However the point I'm making with the sentence you highlighted was that I wouldn't be overly concerned about results with underage and instead I'm trying to develop footballers who will be able to both attack and defend properly as adults. Being able to defend, tackle, block, harry, delay etc. are skills just as important as kicking points but my response to conceding scores, as an underage coach, wouldn't be to go down a blanket defence route it would be to look at why we concede so much - are we able to mark? can we block the ball? are we making bad decisions with the ball and giving it away too easily? In other words, how can I make these guys better footballers. IMO, if you got an U14 team to play a blanket defence you might help them win a county when they mightn't be the best team in the county but are you helping them to become better footballers? For me, every age group up to U16 should be heavily weighted towards improving the player and not achieving the result (doesn't mean you ignore tactics btw), at minor the result matters more but not entirely at the cost of player development. If you are brave enough to follow that path when many club members might accuse you of using naive tactics I think you'll provide hugely capable senior players who will, if they are good enough, win you championships regardless of the tactics they face or are asked to employ.

Wile I agree with all that Zulu, sometimes that can be tempered a wee bit by the need for sucess just for the purposes of keeping young lads interested and for player retention.
They may be benefiting far more by being coached and playing the game this way, but there is nothing like a  wee bit of success to help keep young players playing right through to adult level.
I suppose ideally if you can do both, thats great.

[Zulu]

Again I agree 100%, there's nothing wrong in wanting and trying to win IMO and like you say it can help player retention, certainly over here in Britain where it's easy lose players. It isn't a black and white situation and I guess what I'm trying to say is if you coach kids to be better self confident footballers they will be successful if they have the talent anyway. However, if you coach systems to win the next competition you may be successful but are have you helped your players become better footballers?

[brokencrossbar1]

Again I agree 100%, there's nothing wrong in wanting and trying to win IMO and like you say it can help player retention, certainly over here in Britain where it's easy lose players. It isn't a black and white situation and I guess what I'm trying to say is if you coach kids to be better self confident footballers they will be successful if they have the talent anyway. However, if you coach systems to win the next competition you may be successful but are have you helped your players become better footballers?

But therein lies the whole rub and maybe coming from my club background it is easier to say that winning the next u14/u16 won't make any odds to the grander scheme of things as the whole focus is one creating good footballers for the senior team.  I still think that there has to be a real refocusing across the board at all levels in the basics and when that has been achieved then the rest will fall into place behind it.

[AZOffaly]

I think we're all in violent agreement there BC. The aim of the development stages has to be development. If you've won a multitude of U12, U14 and U16 games and championships because you either play a 'system' or more likely because you have a couple of players that dominate their peers up to a certain age of maturity, then you have failed as a coach in my view.

If you have produced a large number (not everyone will be good) of technically good, confident, disciplined and good decision making players at the end of your conveyor belt, your adult teams will reap their rewards and you have succeeded.

Obviously the ideal would be a combination of both, and learning to compete and learning the will to win is an important stage in development as well, and young lads love winning, but player development is more important than auld lads in the pub slapping themselves on the back over managing an U14 county winning team.

[Bingo]

Again I agree 100%, there's nothing wrong in wanting and trying to win IMO and like you say it can help player retention, certainly over here in Britain where it's easy lose players. It isn't a black and white situation and I guess what I'm trying to say is if you coach kids to be better self confident footballers they will be successful if they have the talent anyway. However, if you coach systems to win the next competition you may be successful but are have you helped your players become better footballers?

But therein lies the whole rub and maybe coming from my club background it is easier to say that winning the next u14/u16 won't make any odds to the grander scheme of things as the whole focus is one creating good footballers for the senior team.  I still think that there has to be a real refocusing across the board at all levels in the basics and when that has been achieved then the rest will fall into place behind it.

Very true but I reckon that 99% of club are sacrificing winning at underage ahead of long term player development. In recent years I've seen horrific stuff at underage level, from teams purposing getting in lower divisions so they'll win an easy title to dominate teams conceding games in later stages of the league so that they can influence who makes the other semi final spots. Even at U12's, a club had two teams and they played some of the graded players in the semi-final with the second team just to get to final, knowing they wouldn't be able to play these players in the final and they promptly got well beat in the final.

The goal should always be player development. Can be hard at times and can lead to tough decisions having to be made. It can also be said that it doesn't prevent a team winning titles.

[Croí na hÉireann]

Looking to add to my (basic) stock of drills and conditioned games, any tips, online resourses, etc?

What age group and what code?

Junior football. PM sent, thanks Zulu.

[highorlow]

I would agree that high fielding is one of the skills of the game but we should not be elevating it (excuse the pun) above the other skills. A potential free score simply for being able to catch the ball is an over-reward and will place undue emphasis on being able to counter it.

This is exactly my point. It's a blanket clearance measure that gives a reward to the forwards. If the backs are focused on doubling up on one or two lanky lads in the FF line then there will be more space around the 40.

Watch Kerry later this year, they will beat the blanket with the game plan they are playing and especially with the Gooch pinging in the balls and running the show. The last league match v Tyrone was a masterclass. As for my own county, Mayo, it appears the 2 lads on the line are a bit behind the curve but the Donegal match was a slight improvement. I hope we are practicing new ideas in training or we won't get past Ross. Galway will be man to man so we can handle them.

[LeoMc]

I would agree that high fielding is one of the skills of the game but we should not be elevating it (excuse the pun) above the other skills. A potential free score simply for being able to catch the ball is an over-reward and will place undue emphasis on being able to counter it.

This is exactly my point. It's a blanket clearance measure that gives a reward to the forwards. If the backs are focused on doubling up on one or two lanky lads in the FF line then there will be more space around the 40.

Watch Kerry later this year, they will beat the blanket with the game plan they are playing and especially with the Gooch pinging in the balls and running the show. The last league match v Tyrone was a masterclass. As for my own county, Mayo, it appears the 2 lads on the line are a bit behind the curve but the Donegal match was a slight improvement. I hope we are practicing new ideas in training or we won't get past Ross. Galway will be man to man so we can handle them.

I do not share your optimism that adding the mark will create more space I would agree with your pointing to Kerry as a role model. Not because they will use a couple of target men  and go long(that failed in 2008) but because they are the masters of mixing it up, learning and adapting. Variety is the key, a team which can vary its attack is harder to defend against as the defence has to rely less on systems but needs flexibility and the ability to adapt.