Modern Techniques going too far

[Bingo]

http://www.hoganstand.com/ArticleForm.aspx?ID=151105

Brennan scoffs at modern management techniques
06 July 2011


Derry manager John BrennanColourful Derry football manager John Brennan has no time for today's coaching fads.

Brennan is the archetypal old-school man-manager and he is undaunted by the prospect of coming up against the modern techniques of Jim McGuinness in this year's Ulster final:

"I use a laptop, too, you know," he quipped at last night's press briefing in Owenbeg.

"They might be slick; they might be all that; but I have come across these people before.

"We played Sligo in a challenge match for the opening of Ballinascreen's new pitch. There was a black pot along the sideline. It was a beautiful day. I thought someone was setting up a barbecue. I thought we were going to get burgers.

"But it was a heart monitor machine which Sligo had brought with them for a challenge game in Ballinascreen. I thought to myself 'There is something going haywire here'.

"You can carry your laptops but football is still a simple game. Jim McGuinness may have ideas, but this year Derry have encountered Mickey Harte and Kieran McGeeney and we managed to come out on the right side of the result.

"I'm about long enough. I don't fear anyone. I respect my own intelligence and my ability to make changes and adapt when necessary. I have no doubt about my own capabilities on the line."

Is he right, for an ameteur game with limited scope for rewards have the modern games become bogged down in modern, professional structures that have little impact on the game.

[brokencrossbar1]

Things like monitoring stats in regards to frees conceded and kick outs won etc are important but there is a limit to what you can achieve by using technoloy at this level.  At the back of it all football is an extremely simple game and if you can set up your team in the right way to play and everyone is comfortable on the ball and comfortable with the style of play then there is very little else to be done. 

[haranguerer]

Hes being a cute hoor methinks.

If there was something that fitted in with his methods and he felt gave his team an advantage, he'd be on it, no matter its year of invention.

[AZOffaly]

I agree with the Crossmaglen man. There are advances that help and have a purpose (as long as you understand why you are gathering the data and can interpret it to make relevant changes if necessary).

Then there are changes for changes sake.

I think stats are well worth gathering, especially relating to kickouts, shooting efficiency, shooting zones etc etc. You then use that data to improve your team's performance.

There are other changes in preparation, including diet etc, which make sense to me as someone without nutriotional training.

There are also coaching changes which I can see the value of, and the sense of.

And then there are a pile of changes which I think are just changes for change's sake.

One thing which I think is still underappreciated is the psychological element. I'd like to understand more about that, especially when setting group goals, and a group mentality.

[haranguerer]

AZ, I note you've mentioned all the changes which you think are beneficial, but none of those you think are for changes sake. Not being (overly) twisted, but what are examples of those you thinnk are for changes sake?

[AZOffaly]

I think some of the drills are changes for changes sake, especially some of the warmup drills you see.

I think that some of the gym work and fitness work is done just to see it being done, and to say you are doing it, rather than proper thought and analysis being done.

[sheamy]

What about wrist bands with 'GP' for gameplan on them? Just in case you forget what you're supposed to be doing. Big Donegal Jim and Fermanagh Rory used them and they beat Tyrone. Must be something in it! They must have forgotten to look at the wrist for the first 25 mins though. Maybe they need another one somewhere to remind them to look at their wrist.

Down employed heart monitor technology last year so everyone 'in the know with the inside track' thinks that's why they got to the AI final. Hence more sales this year. They forget they had good footballers comfortable on the ball and in their own ability, and playing their natural game. If they had two of Dan Gordon, they'd have won it as well.

Alot of these things are fads. We have them in any walk of life. Natural football ability allied to being mentally tuned in and physically fit is all that is needed.

Jim and Rory are indeed one the new breed who are basically disciples of Mickey Harte (and who can argue with that?). They have all watched Mickey and Tyrone in awe, and now an entire generation of managers attempt to imitate them. I kinda think though that Mickey moved on after the all-ireland semi final in 2003 but that's all people remember.

I noted a year or so ago that Rory Gallagher commented in his Gaelic Life column that Derry football was stuck in the 1980's, in the old mode of St Pat's Maghera where the philosophy was (his words), if you get the better of your direct marker, and if the rest of the team do the same then you will win. Rory basically said this was simplistic and why Derry teams haven't progressed. Who knows. Maybe he is right. Results don't lie and all that.

We'll find out on sunday week I suppose.

Without the amount of all-irelands cross have won I think we'd do well to listen to brokencrossbar on this one.

[Bingo]

I'd tend to agree with BC1 and his comments. The biggest factor that most unsuccessful teams have, in my opinion, is bad attitiudes/willingness to do the hard work.

Some of the big modern threads have been these training camps overseas, media blackouts, hotel stays the night before games (when games are local), local training camps when players stay in a hotel for 2 nights when they live 10 minutes away, closed training sessions, shrinks, etc etc. I'm sure there is more.

Of course the good practices have been statistics, analysis (when used correctly and not for sake of it), nutrition etc but as someone saya much of this has been at the cost of coaching of skills. Much like the EPL has developed into making young players into running machines, we are doing the same at many levels in the GAA.

The club game is going the same way with coaches expecting many of the modern techniques that intercounty coaches have at their disposal.

[donegal lad]

http://www.hoganstand.com/ArticleForm.aspx?ID=151105

Brennan scoffs at modern management techniques
06 July 2011


Derry manager John BrennanColourful Derry football manager John Brennan has no time for today's coaching fads.

Brennan is the archetypal old-school man-manager and he is undaunted by the prospect of coming up against the modern techniques of Jim McGuinness in this year's Ulster final:

"I use a laptop, too, you know," he quipped at last night's press briefing in Owenbeg.

"They might be slick; they might be all that; but I have come across these people before.

"We played Sligo in a challenge match for the opening of Ballinascreen's new pitch. There was a black pot along the sideline. It was a beautiful day. I thought someone was setting up a barbecue. I thought we were going to get burgers.

"But it was a heart monitor machine which Sligo had brought with them for a challenge game in Ballinascreen. I thought to myself 'There is something going haywire here'.

"You can carry your laptops but football is still a simple game. Jim McGuinness may have ideas, but this year Derry have encountered Mickey Harte and Kieran McGeeney and we managed to come out on the right side of the result.

"I'm about long enough. I don't fear anyone. I respect my own intelligence and my ability to make changes and adapt when necessary. I have no doubt about my own capabilities on the line."

Is he right, for an ameteur game with limited scope for rewards have the modern games become bogged down in modern, professional structures that have little impact on the game.

I see john only mentioned the games his team won against in his report did he forget already his side have played against Jims new team already this year and were beat in their own back yard and anyone who was at that game know donegal can play direct football and even the 2 men on murphy couldn't keep him quiet roll on Sunday week

[Fuzzman]

I think in Mickey Harte's first book he sums it up well.
When you get two or three teams to a certain standard then it comes down to inches that win games.

I think the Tyrone Armagh rivalry in the mid noughties is a prime example.
The final in 2003 & those 3 matches in 2005 show that the extra wee things can be enough to push you over the line. Armagh were huge into their positive mental strength and they would never even contemplate losing. Their mental strength took them through many of games and squeezed teams out in the last ten minutes.

I personally think though some of the techniques clubs and even counties are doing are just for the sake of it and they don't really believe it will make much difference.
I think all this symbols that they wear are a load of crap. What was the one Armagh had in that 2003 final with a circle inside a triangle.

[Bingo]

AZ, i'd agree and your point is what I was getting at in a badly worded way.

But i do think coaching is still lacking at basics. I've read a few coaches talking about specific players should be drilled in specific areas and it would appear not be the case looking at the game nowadays.

I've seen and been coached where everyone does the same - corner backs in shooting games for example. Its a fine line and its hard to get everyone doing what they should be doing in limited time. I think its very hard to work game situations into drills. In other sports its fine to do this as they know that these situations will arise eg corners, free kicks, lineouts, scrums. In Gaelic its very hard to put formations into drills as they so many formations. I'd guess point scoring rules that this isn't needed as much and i'm sure lots of coaches are trying to get practised situations into real gametime.

I'm looking to the day when Marty notes a well taken Kerry goal as "coming straight off the training ground".

Maybe the GAA should be a better game for its unpredictability but what I'm guessing is that modern methods are taking this element out of the game.

[Eamonnca1]

You have obviously misinterpreted me Eamonnca1. I am talking about warm-up drills which are unopposed, such as hand and kick passing etc. I don't see how cones would help replicate tackling situations like in your photos anyway

Cones can help in this, and I use them myself. You are trying, in some drills, to replicate situations like Eamonn's above. Cones can help to set a boundary for short sided games or drills, which force the players to operate in tight spaces.

Cones are only for boundaries and to get lads organised. Don't get blinded by the facts cones are used. They don't make the drill.

Embrace the cone, don't fear it.

Exactly. It isn't the use of cones, it's what you do with them that counts.  You can use them to set up unrealistic drills or use them to set up realistic simulations of in-match situations.

Since some of my work involves teaching hurling to beginners I use cones to set up basic drills where you work on the basic skills and getting 'the touch' right.  I gradually add complexity to the drills and incrementally loosen up the restrictions to the point where they're playing in a full game situation.  At that point the only use of cones is to mark out the playing area and goals.

God forbid if we ever go back to the days where 'training' was running six laps of the pitch, then playing a game, and never bothering to teach anyone how to actually play the game in the first place.

[mannix]

Mayo bring a fleet of heart monitors to every game they play, though in our case it's for the fans use only. How many times have I nearly needed one after the carry on of our fullback line or one of the heros up front missing a sitter?

[Fear ón Srath Bán]

Mayo bring a fleet of heart monitors to every game they play, though in our case it's for the fans use only.