2013 All Ireland

[catchandkick]

Hard to see where McGeeney and Kildare go from here. He's got the absolute max out of them and is definitely a top notch manager, but if you don't have the players what can you do.

I think you can assess a team's potential by how many top class forwards they have.

Derry with 2 ( the Bradley's) arguably have more potential than Kildare with 1 ( Doyle) .

Because if you haven't got the top notch forwards you'll require fantastic 15 man performances day in day out. Which, in all team sports, just doesn't happen.

Which is why I think for Mayo 2012 read Down 2010. I wouldn't have as much confidence as others do that they will be contesting an All Ireland final in the next few years.

The only thing is that Mayo have been in the semi-finals two years in a row. That is a level of consistency that Down did not have. Fermanagh, Wexford, Meath, Kildare and Down have made one off appearances, but could not replicate the drive the following year.

One thing in their favour which they do have, which those counties from Leinster & Ulster you mentioned didn't, is a relatively easy passage to the quarter finals.

[catchandkick]

Hard to see where McGeeney and Kildare go from here. He's got the absolute max out of them and is definitely a top notch manager, but if you don't have the players what can you do.

I think you can assess a team's potential by how many top class forwards they have.

Derry with 2 ( the Bradley's) arguably have more potential than Kildare with 1 ( Doyle) .

Because if you haven't got the top notch forwards you'll require fantastic 15 man performances day in day out. Which, in all team sports, just doesn't happen.

Which is why I think for Mayo 2012 read Down 2010. I wouldn't have as much confidence as others do that they will be contesting an All Ireland final in the next few years.

on the basis of Geezer the Manager winning what exactly??    another Roy Keane I reckon

Consistently about sixth or seventh best in the country.

Haven't won anything because they're just short of Dublin in Leinster  and short of the top four or five at All Ireland level.

Has got the most out of the assets at his disposal, can't do much more than that.

[sammymaguire]

Hard to see where McGeeney and Kildare go from here. He's got the absolute max out of them and is definitely a top notch manager, but if you don't have the players what can you do.

I think you can assess a team's potential by how many top class forwards they have.

Derry with 2 ( the Bradley's) arguably have more potential than Kildare with 1 ( Doyle) .

Because if you haven't got the top notch forwards you'll require fantastic 15 man performances day in day out. Which, in all team sports, just doesn't happen.

Which is why I think for Mayo 2012 read Down 2010. I wouldn't have as much confidence as others do that they will be contesting an All Ireland final in the next few years.

on the basis of Geezer the Manager winning what exactly??    another Roy Keane I reckon

Consistently about sixth or seventh best in the country.

Haven't won anything because they're just short of Dublin in Leinster  and short of the top four or five at All Ireland level.

Has got the most out of the assets at his disposal, can't do much more than that.

ah man, sure Donegal werent in the top 4 or 5, 2 years ago and look what they have done in 2 years.

More reason why I dont think he isn't all that, surely being in charge 4-5 years at this stage he should have found the breakthrough with a team who has underachieved with the talent at their disposal. One solid year of focus would have seen them win silverware of some description, even League 2.

Meath beat Louth in the 2010 final, where were they then? A better manager would have seen them across the line. Thats just my own opinion.

[Dinny Breen]

Hard to see where McGeeney and Kildare go from here. He's got the absolute max out of them and is definitely a top notch manager, but if you don't have the players what can you do.

I think you can assess a team's potential by how many top class forwards they have.

Derry with 2 ( the Bradley's) arguably have more potential than Kildare with 1 ( Doyle) .

Because if you haven't got the top notch forwards you'll require fantastic 15 man performances day in day out. Which, in all team sports, just doesn't happen.

Which is why I think for Mayo 2012 read Down 2010. I wouldn't have as much confidence as others do that they will be contesting an All Ireland final in the next few years.

Ah the naivety of that comment, more accurately a mill stone.

Maybe a bit simplistic on my part, but surely there is potential to mould a team around them, in the same way Dublin did with the Brogans and Donegal did with Murphy & McFadden

Personally don't Murphy or McFadden as anything more than good inside forwards. Donegal showed that you don't need players of the quality of Cooper, Bearnard Brogan (2010/11 version) to win All-Irelands.

As for Kildare forwards, they will have Paul Cribben back, a fit Fionn Dowling. Geezer needs to put more faith in Podge Fogarty and the best of them all could be young Paddy Brophy from Celbridge.

If the players have faith in McGeeney they will go ok next year and Division 1 will bring them on. Still it's hard not to think that Kildare won't push on again until a new manager is appointed (Glenn Ryan) at the end of next year.

[Fuzzman]

I think Tyrone and a lot of other Ulster fans would say that whilst they're proud of how football is played in the North, they are also glad to sometimes get out of the cauldron as its usually high intensity and you rarely get an easy match. You may get the odd easy first round game but usually you've to win 2 high intensity games to win an Ulster title.
This is often not the case to win Munster, Connaught or even Leinster where the Dubs seem to win every year lately at a canter, often to their downfall in the quarterfinals.

Anyway, I wanted to pick up Sheamy's point of how Harte & McGuinness are the tactical geniuses at the moment and that they have went down the road that possession is king. Whilst I do agree with this tactic in one way, I personally HATE watching my beloved Tyrone play nowadays in a lot of matches. I think I first became frustrated with it back in 2009 v Cork and then again in 2010.
Often we play a 2 man forward line but very rarely ever kick the ball into them as we know half our team are still back in our own 40 and are in no position to support them if they should manage to be out in front to catch it. So instead we tend to rugby league style our possession up the field with a man on your shoulder ready to off load to. Whilst it's great to watch when it ends in a score after 20 passes, it is also painful to watch when it breaks down.
Looking back to the recent games we've lost, you can see how the other team know that we are too predictable now and so defend much further up the field.
However, a lot of people say we gave Donegal their toughest game this year and could have snatched it from them. We played them at their own game and matched them for most of it but as per most games this year they tend to pull away just at the start of the second half.

However, in the last 2 or 3 games Donegal started mixing their play a lot more. Against Kerry they started kicking long balls in much more and some worked and some didn't. To me personally this is the best tactic of any sport you play. If you become to predictable then teams work out how to counteract you. If defenders know you're gonna try to walk it up the field into a scoring position then they stop you further up the pitch.

When you look at matches in the 70's & 80's where players often almost got decapitated and then they aimlessly kicked the ball 50 yards down the field without even looking where they kicked it. Whilst it often meant a more open attack minded spectacle it also meant it was much more of a lottery and those with the best fielders or readers of the game benefited.

Finally, Harte surprised a lot of us v Dublin in 2011 when he went man to man for most of the game. It made it a very open entertaining game but it also meant that Diarmuid Connolly and Brogan had a field day. I hope to God we don't play the same way in 2013 that we did for most of the last 4 years as we rarely see fast flowing football any more.

[Syferus]

I think Tyrone and a lot of other Ulster fans would say that whilst they're proud of how football is played in the North, they are also glad to sometimes get out of the cauldron as its usually high intensity and you rarely get an easy match. You may get the odd easy first round game but usually you've to win 2 high intensity games to win an Ulster title.
This is often not the case to win Munster, Connaught or even Leinster where the Dubs seem to win every year lately at a canter, often to their downfall in the quarterfinals.

Anyway, I wanted to pick up Sheamy's point of how Harte & McGuinness are the tactical geniuses at the moment and that they have went down the road that possession is king. Whilst I do agree with this tactic in one way, I personally HATE watching my beloved Tyrone play nowadays in a lot of matches. I think I first became frustrated with it back in 2009 v Cork and then again in 2010.
Often we play a 2 man forward line but very rarely ever kick the ball into them as we know half our team are still back in our own 40 and are in no position to support them if they should manage to be out in front to catch it. So instead we tend to rugby league style our possession up the field with a man on your shoulder ready to off load to. Whilst it's great to watch when it ends in a score after 20 passes, it is also painful to watch when it breaks down.
Looking back to the recent games we've lost, you can see how the other team know that we are too predictable now and so defend much further up the field.
However, a lot of people say we gave Donegal their toughest game this year and could have snatched it from them. We played them at their own game and matched them for most of it but as per most games this year they tend to pull away just at the start of the second half.

However, in the last 2 or 3 games Donegal started mixing their play a lot more. Against Kerry they started kicking long balls in much more and some worked and some didn't. To me personally this is the best tactic of any sport you play. If you become to predictable then teams work out how to counteract you. If defenders know you're gonna try to walk it up the field into a scoring position then they stop you further up the pitch.

When you look at matches in the 70's & 80's where players often almost got decapitated and then they aimlessly kicked the ball 50 yards down the field without even looking where they kicked it. Whilst it often meant a more open attack minded spectacle it also meant it was much more of a lottery and those with the best fielders or readers of the game benefited.

Finally, Harte surprised a lot of us v Dublin in 2011 when he went man to man for most of the game. It made it a very open entertaining game but it also meant that Diarmuid Connolly and Brogan had a field day. I hope to God we don't play the same way in 2013 that we did for most of the last 4 years as we rarely see fast flowing football any more.

Jaysus, you're laying it on extra thick. Donegal won Ulster by only ever being taxed by Tyrone, a team that went on to be well beat by Kerry. Ulster is nothing to write home about over the other provinces right now.

[Donnellys Hollow]

Hard to see where McGeeney and Kildare go from here. He's got the absolute max out of them and is definitely a top notch manager, but if you don't have the players what can you do.

I think you can assess a team's potential by how many top class forwards they have.

Derry with 2 ( the Bradley's) arguably have more potential than Kildare with 1 ( Doyle) .

Because if you haven't got the top notch forwards you'll require fantastic 15 man performances day in day out. Which, in all team sports, just doesn't happen.

Which is why I think for Mayo 2012 read Down 2010. I wouldn't have as much confidence as others do that they will be contesting an All Ireland final in the next few years.

Ah the naivety of that comment, more accurately a mill stone.

Maybe a bit simplistic on my part, but surely there is potential to mould a team around them, in the same way Dublin did with the Brogans and Donegal did with Murphy & McFadden

Personally don't Murphy or McFadden as anything more than good inside forwards. Donegal showed that you don't need players of the quality of Cooper, Bearnard Brogan (2010/11 version) to win All-Irelands.

As for Kildare forwards, they will have Paul Cribben back, a fit Fionn Dowling. Geezer needs to put more faith in Podge Fogarty and the best of them all could be young Paddy Brophy from Celbridge.

If the players have faith in McGeeney they will go ok next year and Division 1 will bring them on. Still it's hard not to think that Kildare won't push on again until a new manager is appointed (Glenn Ryan) at the end of next year.

You'd hope that McGeeney will show a bit of trust in some of the younger lads next year but it's hard to know with him. He's been very inconsistent in his use of the lads in the 20 - 22 age bracket. Bringing Sean Hurley on for ten minutes against Dublin before taking him off again was crazy and he did something similar with Tommy Moolick against Tyrone in the first league match last year hauling him off after about fifteen minutes. Decisions like that will hardly help a young player's confidence and I think it's interesting that neither have appeared for Kildare since. We all thought we'd see plenty of Fogarty after the league final last year but he hardly got a kick in the summer despite most of the forwards misfiring with the notable exception of Alan Smith. Then on the other hand you can point to how Eoin Doyle was thrown in at the deep end in the championship. I can't help but think that the whole Johnston saga displayed a lack of trust by McGeeney in some of these young players.

It's great that Paul Cribbin is back and he's exactly the type of player that could thrive in the current Kildare team but his addition will only balance out the loss of Hurley to Australia and Kevin Feely who now seems certain to take up a contract with one of the soccer clubs in England - first it giveth, then it taketh away. It was rather depressing watching him dominate the Moorefield midfield last Saturday knowing that he's unlikely to be available to Kildare in the near future anyway.

[lilywhitesno1]

"Meath beat Louth in the 2010 final, where were they then? A better manager would have seen them across the line. Thats just my own opinion"
Sammymaguire where were kildare? well in an all ireland semi final in 2010 and calum king's fingertips away from an all ireland apperance. Incredibly unlucky not to have went onto contest the final of 2010. Similar to Down both teams went out in round 1 but went on to have good years. Dublin were also dumped out of leinster that year by meath who put five goals past them. Louth also went on to showcase why they should of been leinster champions of 2010.
We mighten have any meaningful silverware other than (o'byrne cup and league title 2012) but we have made great strides. 5 all ireland quarter final appearances a semi appearance is not something to be siffed at. We have made steady progress from where we were pre2008.
As john Doyle said "manys a year he would be at home watching others contesting quarter finals on the telly and wondering to himself how far kildare were off them" No denying geezer has done a hell of alot for kildare not only in terms of competiting at the top level and at the business end of the championship but for the promotion of the game within the county.
Already looking forward to the draw on the 4th to see kildare's path to the Delaney cup. Hopefully 2013, unlucky for some maybe a lucky year for the unluckiest county of recent years and the silverware comes to the short grass county.   

[oakleafgael]

Hard to see where McGeeney and Kildare go from here. He's got the absolute max out of them and is definitely a top notch manager, but if you don't have the players what can you do.

I think you can assess a team's potential by how many top class forwards they have.

Derry with 2 ( the Bradley's) arguably have more potential than Kildare with 1 ( Doyle) .

Because if you haven't got the top notch forwards you'll require fantastic 15 man performances day in day out. Which, in all team sports, just doesn't happen.

Which is why I think for Mayo 2012 read Down 2010. I wouldn't have as much confidence as others do that they will be contesting an All Ireland final in the next few years.

Ah the naivety of that comment, more accurately a mill stone.

Maybe a bit simplistic on my part, but surely there is potential to mould a team around them, in the same way Dublin did with the Brogans and Donegal did with Murphy & McFadden

Personally don't Murphy or McFadden as anything more than good inside forwards. Donegal showed that you don't need players of the quality of Cooper, Bearnard Brogan (2010/11 version) to win All-Irelands.

As for Kildare forwards, they will have Paul Cribben back, a fit Fionn Dowling. Geezer needs to put more faith in Podge Fogarty and the best of them all could be young Paddy Brophy from Celbridge.

If the players have faith in McGeeney they will go ok next year and Division 1 will bring them on. Still it's hard not to think that Kildare won't push on again until a new manager is appointed (Glenn Ryan) at the end of next year.

[LeoMc]

Hard to see where McGeeney and Kildare go from here. He's got the absolute max out of them and is definitely a top notch manager, but if you don't have the players what can you do.

I think you can assess a team's potential by how many top class forwards they have.

Derry with 2 ( the Bradley's) arguably have more potential than Kildare with 1 ( Doyle) .

Because if you haven't got the top notch forwards you'll require fantastic 15 man performances day in day out. Which, in all team sports, just doesn't happen.

Which is why I think for Mayo 2012 read Down 2010. I wouldn't have as much confidence as others do that they will be contesting an All Ireland final in the next few years.

Ah the naivety of that comment, more accurately a mill stone.

Maybe a bit simplistic on my part, but surely there is potential to mould a team around them, in the same way Dublin did with the Brogans and Donegal did with Murphy & McFadden

Personally don't Murphy or McFadden as anything more than good inside forwards. Donegal showed that you don't need players of the quality of Cooper, Bearnard Brogan (2010/11 version) to win All-Irelands.

As for Kildare forwards, they will have Paul Cribben back, a fit Fionn Dowling. Geezer needs to put more faith in Podge Fogarty and the best of them all could be young Paddy Brophy from Celbridge.

If the players have faith in McGeeney they will go ok next year and Division 1 will bring them on. Still it's hard not to think that Kildare won't push on again until a new manager is appointed (Glenn Ryan) at the end of next year.

You'd hope that McGeeney will show a bit of trust in some of the younger lads next year but it's hard to know with him. He's been very inconsistent in his use of the lads in the 20 - 22 age bracket. Bringing Sean Hurley on for ten minutes against Dublin before taking him off again was crazy and he did something similar with Tommy Moolick against Tyrone in the first league match last year hauling him off after about fifteen minutes. Decisions like that will hardly help a young player's confidence and I think it's interesting that neither have appeared for Kildare since. We all thought we'd see plenty of Fogarty after the league final last year but he hardly got a kick in the summer despite most of the forwards misfiring with the notable exception of Alan Smith. Then on the other hand you can point to how Eoin Doyle was thrown in at the deep end in the championship. I can't help but think that the whole Johnston saga displayed a lack of trust by McGeeney in some of these young players.

It's great that Paul Cribbin is back and he's exactly the type of player that could thrive in the current Kildare team but his addition will only balance out the loss of Hurley to Australia and Kevin Feely who now seems certain to take up a contract with one of the soccer clubs in England - first it giveth, then it taketh away. It was rather depressing watching him dominate the Moorefield midfield last Saturday knowing that he's unlikely to be available to Kildare in the near future anyway.

Do ye's not have any good hurlers you could convert into corner forwards?

[Dinny Breen]

Hard to see where McGeeney and Kildare go from here. He's got the absolute max out of them and is definitely a top notch manager, but if you don't have the players what can you do.

I think you can assess a team's potential by how many top class forwards they have.

Derry with 2 ( the Bradley's) arguably have more potential than Kildare with 1 ( Doyle) .

Because if you haven't got the top notch forwards you'll require fantastic 15 man performances day in day out. Which, in all team sports, just doesn't happen.

Which is why I think for Mayo 2012 read Down 2010. I wouldn't have as much confidence as others do that they will be contesting an All Ireland final in the next few years.

Ah the naivety of that comment, more accurately a mill stone.

Maybe a bit simplistic on my part, but surely there is potential to mould a team around them, in the same way Dublin did with the Brogans and Donegal did with Murphy & McFadden

Personally don't Murphy or McFadden as anything more than good inside forwards. Donegal showed that you don't need players of the quality of Cooper, Bearnard Brogan (2010/11 version) to win All-Irelands.

As for Kildare forwards, they will have Paul Cribben back, a fit Fionn Dowling. Geezer needs to put more faith in Podge Fogarty and the best of them all could be young Paddy Brophy from Celbridge.

If the players have faith in McGeeney they will go ok next year and Division 1 will bring them on. Still it's hard not to think that Kildare won't push on again until a new manager is appointed (Glenn Ryan) at the end of next year.

You'd hope that McGeeney will show a bit of trust in some of the younger lads next year but it's hard to know with him. He's been very inconsistent in his use of the lads in the 20 - 22 age bracket. Bringing Sean Hurley on for ten minutes against Dublin before taking him off again was crazy and he did something similar with Tommy Moolick against Tyrone in the first league match last year hauling him off after about fifteen minutes. Decisions like that will hardly help a young player's confidence and I think it's interesting that neither have appeared for Kildare since. We all thought we'd see plenty of Fogarty after the league final last year but he hardly got a kick in the summer despite most of the forwards misfiring with the notable exception of Alan Smith. Then on the other hand you can point to how Eoin Doyle was thrown in at the deep end in the championship. I can't help but think that the whole Johnston saga displayed a lack of trust by McGeeney in some of these young players.

It's great that Paul Cribbin is back and he's exactly the type of player that could thrive in the current Kildare team but his addition will only balance out the loss of Hurley to Australia and Kevin Feely who now seems certain to take up a contract with one of the soccer clubs in England - first it giveth, then it taketh away. It was rather depressing watching him dominate the Moorefield midfield last Saturday knowing that he's unlikely to be available to Kildare in the near future anyway.

Do ye's not have any good hurlers you could convert into corner forwards?

Tommy Carew is a bit old in the tooth now but could probably still do a job for us alright...

[Ohtoohtobe]

Can't believe the Leper man hasn't been mentioned as a top class Kildare forward. Just weren't the same without him this year.

Anyway I think the problem we have is that we have a rake of good forwards but, apart from Doyle, no truly great one.

EG:
Smith and Kavanagh are both all-star nominees.
Callaghan as mentioned.
Eoghan O'Flaherty scored 0-5 from play in an All-Ireland U21 final but had a nightmare against Cork.
Mikey Conway showed flashes throughout this year but also had a nightmare against Cork.
Some hurler from Coill Dubh broke onto the panel to little fanfare last year.
We also have Rob Kelly (usually an automatic choice for UCD), Paul Cribbin (v exciting addition), Padraig O'Neill, Ronan Sweeney, Tomas O'Connor...
That's a lot of decent to very good forwards - indeed, it's hard to know what six you would pick - but none are quite in the Michael Murphy class.
Dinny, I hope I'm wrong, but I don't see what other people see in Dowling and Fogarty.

For me, Niall Kelly is by far the most exciting young forward in Kildare, though obviously he's still only a chap for now.

[Donnellys Hollow]

Can't believe the Leper man hasn't been mentioned as a top class Kildare forward. Just weren't the same without him this year.

Anyway I think the problem we have is that we have a rake of good forwards but, apart from Doyle, no truly great one.

EG:
Smith and Kavanagh are both all-star nominees.
Callaghan as mentioned.
Eoghan O'Flaherty scored 0-5 from play in an All-Ireland U21 final but had a nightmare against Cork.
Mikey Conway showed flashes throughout this year but also had a nightmare against Cork.
Some hurler from Coill Dubh broke onto the panel to little fanfare last year.
We also have Rob Kelly (usually an automatic choice for UCD), Paul Cribbin (v exciting addition), Padraig O'Neill, Ronan Sweeney, Tomas O'Connor...
That's a lot of decent to very good forwards - indeed, it's hard to know what six you would pick - but none are quite in the Michael Murphy class.
Dinny, I hope I'm wrong, but I don't see what other people see in Dowling and Fogarty.

For me, Niall Kelly is by far the most exciting young forward in Kildare, though obviously he's still only a chap for now.

I think Podge Fogarty has something we rarely see in Kildare forwards. He's a real instinctive inside forward who wants to shoot every time he gets the ball. We don't really produce players like him too often (only Smith and Fennin in the last 10 years) and he'll add more of a threat to our full forward line. He has a bit of swagger and confidence about him like Smith had when he first burst onto the scene which is no harm. He's still young and quite inconsistent but when he's on song he's a pain in the arse for a full back line. He gave Hugh McGrillen a torrid time of it in the county championship recently. Dowling is a bit less direct but he's probably a more skillful footballer. It's a pity his season was so interrupted this year but the work done in the gym should stand to him because he looked a biteen light last year.

Kelly has a touch of class about him but the problem is that we've plenty of lads who can do an effective job on the 40 (Mikey, Leper, Flats, Jimmers, Kelly etc.) but we lack the finishers inside who can take a backline for a goal and a few points. Whether these young lads can improve things is anyone's guess but it would be no harm giving a few of them a run at it in the league. The likes of Paudie and particularly Roli have given fabulous service to Kildare but we know what they can do at this stage. If it's not working out any of the younger players then we can always revert to the tried and tested.