County finals, it's the 23 of October FFS

[ross4life]

Surely we owe it to the players/clubs/fans to have these games played long before this.

Watching the finals and listening to the games on the radio, while tense and enthralling, the conditions these lads are playing in is a disgrace. These are the best players in the county some the best in the country and they are shoveling around in a mud pit for the ball. Instead of showcasing their skills

What's the answer though? Played before the All Ireland finals? Would feel robbed playing in those conditions if ya lost

Know what your saying MR2 but TBF the Irish weather/conditions seems to be bad all year round these days, i was at the Connacht final in July & the Roscommon county final a few weeks ago both games were played in the same shite weather.

[Milltown Row2]

But usually the pitch is hard Ross, yesterday it was a swamp

[emmetryan]

The Westmeath SFC replay was played in monsoon like conditions in Mullingar yesterday. For the weather it was actually a very good quality match. Dessie Dolan was on Midlands 103 after the match saying that he had being playing football in Cusack Park since 98 and that's easily the worst he has ever seen it. I wouldn't mind but Westmeath were bundled out of the qualifiers in the first round in July, finishing the championship on the 23rd of October is a bit of a joke. It probably suits Garrycastle though as they're not out in Leinster for another 3 weeks.

I was in Mullingar to cover the match. The quality of play in the first half defied the conditions. There were some excellent scores from play from both sides. After the break the pitch looked a lot worse for wear and while it showed, the game was nowhere near as sloppy as one would have expected considering the damage done by the elements.

[Lone Shark]

There's a few hard decisions to be made here though. Up in Donegal Glenswilly are making a fuss because Michael Murphy won't be around to play club league games due to being in Australia - that's the kind of thing you have to deal with.

You have dual players, lads playing underage, college teams and a whole host of other competitions - there's just too much stuff going on that you will have to take decisions somewhere along the line like:

(1) Players that want to play hurling and football  - do you try and accommodate them, or do you play both codes on the one weekend?

(2) Players on county duty - that's fine when it's the senior county team, but to take one example, Birr club in Offaly would have had representatives in the county senior, minor and under 21 football and hurling panels. That's six different county teams - do you call off Birr games because of all of those?

(3) Ulster club men tend to be okay with straight knockout club championships, because up there club leagues are meaningful competitions where teams put their best foot forward. In Offaly, and I guess generally, league matches are not regarded too highly down here, it's often a case of rounding up fifteen. Two years ago I played two league games for my club senior team - come the summer I struggled to hold down a place in the Junior B's, which was our third team. If you put straight knockout into club competition here, players essentially have one big game all year.

I'm not saying there is an easy answer to any of this, but this won't be solved unless hard choices are made, and there is no will for that in a lot of places.

[sammymaguire]

(1) Players that want to play hurling and football  - do you try and accommodate them, or do you play both codes on the one weekend?

Difficult one but my own personal opinion is this will become less of an issue, with the demands and commitment needed to cope in one code, its less and less likely that dual players will be expected to play both hurling and football and by doing so its running the risk of burnout anyways so it should not be seen as a bad thing.

(2) Players on county duty - that's fine when it's the senior county team, but to take one example, Birr club in Offaly would have had representatives in the county senior, minor and under 21 football and hurling panels. That's six different county teams - do you call off Birr games because of all of those?

Exceptions can be made and efforts to reschedule a club game for a midweek within 10 days can be made surely. Again, I still think we need to look at the issue of 17,18 year old lads playing for minor club & county, senior club (and poss county), colleges etc in a 2-3 month period on top of the training. I found it hard to cope with club and school football when I was a gasson.

(3) Ulster club men tend to be okay with straight knockout club championships, because up there club leagues are meaningful competitions where teams put their best foot forward. In Offaly, and I guess generally, league matches are not regarded too highly down here, it's often a case of rounding up fifteen. Two years ago I played two league games for my club senior team - come the summer I struggled to hold down a place in the Junior B's, which was our third team. If you put straight knockout into club competition here, players essentially have one big game all year.

We as GAA folk can change the ethos of any competition and its meaning if the county boards and GAA HQ want to.


I'm not saying there is an easy answer to any of this, but this won't be solved unless hard choices are made - I personally dont think the choices are that hard although your points are all totally valid

[muppet]

Here is a possible schedule for 2012:

February: Kehoe Cup, O'Byrne Cup, FBD, McKenna Cup. All games played to a conclusion.

March April: No inter-county games, all senior players available for their clubs.

May - no club games.

May 13th - 1st round of SFC
May 20th -  2nd round if SFC
May 27th - 3rd round of SFC
3rd June - rest
10th June - 4th round SFC
17th June - 5th round SFC
24th June - 6th round SFC
1st July - 7th round SFC
8th July -rest
15th July - 8th round SFC
22rd July - 9th round SFC
29th July - 10th round SFC
5th Aug - 11th round SFC
18/19th Aug - Provincial Finals
1/2nd Sep AI semis
16th Sept - AIF.

For example based on the rankings (link below don't blame me) there would be two federations of 11.  Ulster/Connacht would comprise of Tyrone, Down, Mayo, Armagh, Monaghan, Galway, Derry, Donegal, Sligo, Antrim and Roscommon. Leinster/Munster would be Cork, Kerry, Dublin, Meath, Kildare, Wexford, Louth, Laois, Limerick, Tipperary and Westmeath. Over the 10 weeks of action the 11 teams would play each other once with each team receiving a bye once.

The top two teams from each province would contest the Provincial Finals. Semis would pit Provincial winners against winners from the other Federation.

The following would play for promotion to the top two conferences: Cavan, Westmeath, Fermanagh, Offaly, Wicklow, Longford, Waterford, Leitrim, Clare, Carlow, London (Kilkenny & New York TBC)

Advantages: Guaranteed number of Championship games on fixed dates. Most local rivalries retained. Better organized season for both county teams and clubs. Likely higher revenue for teams and higher annual attendances. A meaningful suspension system could be introduced banning players for a number of games rather than weeks/months. Clubs would have clear windows for their championships. Weaker teams would see more meaningful games (but they probably wouldn't see it like that).

Disadvantages: The Hurling Championship would also have to see radical change to fit around the above. Dual players would likely disappear but it is arguable that has already happened. The stronger squads may have an advantage. Teams in the lower conference would be unlikely to be happy. Teams from different conferences would rarely play against each other unless they were successful. Congress would probably vote this in and out every second year. We don't do change in the Gaa, radical is wearing white boots.

Small print: Rankings from http://www.gaainfo.com/rankings/index.php for objectivity only, no NFL, draws at league stage are final results, results against teams from own province to separate ties, then scoring diff etc.

[bennydorano]

There's a very simple solution (to the club football champ), provisional fixtures issued  centrally - fixed for set weekends - dependent on what round your County departs the AI series & they shouldn't even be needed for anyone bar the last 8.

Big picture stuff is required at this stage, not minute detail.

[tyrone86]

It will be worse next year with the All Ireland finals reverting to the 2nd and 4th weeks of September.

[playwiththewind1st]

It used to be All Ireland Hurling final 1st Sunday of September, All Ireland Football final on the 3rd Sunday.

County finals were on the other 2 Sundays, changed times.

[BennyCake]

Armagh's county final in 1993 was in September, between the football and hurling finals.  That year Armagh had six championship games, yet the county final was on that date.  I'm sure it was the same in most counties then. 

This year, Armagh's championship didn't start until the first or second week in August.  Why can't it be started earlier?  Its not right having lads slopping through muck and gutters this time of year.  Matches played in conditions like we had yesterday, become a lottery.  The county championships are being run as an afterthought.

[brokencrossbar1]

Armagh's county final in 1993 was in September, between the football and hurling finals.  That year Armagh had six championship games, yet the county final was on that date.  I'm sure it was the same in most counties then. 

This year, Armagh's championship didn't start until the first or second week in August.  Why can't it be started earlier?  Its not right having lads slopping through muck and gutters this time of year.  Matches played in conditions like we had yesterday, become a lottery.  The county championships are being run as an afterthought.

That's the bit that I can't fathom.  At the end of the 90's/start of the noughties the first round of the championship was always May time.  I actually recall 1999 I think it was that we played in Croke Park on the 17th March and played Ballyhegan in the first round of Armagh the last weekend of April in a prelim game!!!!  All games up to semi final should be played to a finish and each county should have a strict start date ie must be started before x date in May and then a strict finish date, ie end of October. 

[Lone Shark]

I think there's two different aspects here - if you ask one person to make a tough choice between method A and method B, they'll think about it and make a decision. Forcing such a change through the GAA is another matter - particularly when I think you'd need to force a lot of them. The dual player thing is a perfect example. It's easy to say it's a small thing, but next year in Offaly, we will have twelve senior football clubs. Seven of those twelve clubs will have players who will be playing senior hurling championship as well - and that's not counting clubs like Clara and Edenderry, who have plenty of players who take their hurling seriously, even if they're not hurling at senior level. It's simply not practical to push that through in Offaly - it just won't happen.

Equally, personally I don't like the idea of midweek at all. It's amateur games, people are under a lot of pressure as is, dodging out early from work is not ideal at all. Also, my club played our first two SFC games this year midweek - I felt it downgraded the importance of it. Players should be playing most weekends, but we need to make running our games more affordable, not more expensive - midweek games should be a last resort.

I think that if you made the following changes it would work - but again, others would probably fight for different things.

(1) First and foremost, the provincial councils have to cop on and shorten the length of time it takes to run off their campaigns - Ulster and Connacht being the worst offenders. As a quid pro quo, how about this - the qualifiers now take place within provinces? That way every intercounty team is guaranteed at least two games as with now, but you're let back into your province - so the four provincial finals become the All Ireland quarters again. Less novelty pairings, more revenue for provincial councils. Play them in whatever format the provinces want, but the key proviso is that your provincial final is played in early July. AI semis in late July, AI finals in August. Clubs get half of July, August and September for championship, having played league all Spring.

(2) Extend the two grades up rule to minor. Minors cannot play full adult football. If they're good enough to play adult football, they're probably county panellists, playing school and with the option of college as well. That's enough at a key burnout age. That way you can schedule senior club the same weekend as county minor.

(3) Scrap the preseason competitions - and run them ALONGSIDE the national league, as county reserve games. All county managers want squads of 32-35 anyway, so as to run training games. This will cost more, but you now have a shorter season. Season starts the 1st of January and you enforce it as such, and ends earlier. Run the O'Byrne Cup/Shield as reserve competitions during the Spring, so managers can judge fringe players with some chance of proper weather, not in January. Those games in January tell nobody anything. I'd prefer to see my 21 year old corner forward prospect marking a similarly eager-to-impress corner back from Laois or Kildare in April than watching him mark a guy who may or may not be interested in the muck.

(4) Once you've played county senior championship, you cease to be eligible for county under 21, which now takes place in the summer, alongside the Intercounty stuff. Treat it the same way as club senior/junior. The point of under-21 is a stepping stone - if players are able to skip that step, let someone else in. These extra guys would make up the bulk of the bigger squads for the preseason competitions mentioned earlier. I'd also be in favour of extending it out to U-22 or U-23 if you brought in this rule.

So who'd go along with, or argue against, any of that?

[aontroim]

Instead of ploughing millions into stadium builds etc, the GAA should divert some cash into upgrading county pitches in order that they remain playable no matter how wet the weather is.  I can think of several club grounds in Antrim alone that would be playable no matter how much rain has fallen - surely not so hard to think about making the same facilities available at county grounds.  Hopefully in the Casement upgrade, the pitch will be relaid as well as the stadium.

[Milltown Row2]

Instead of ploughing millions into stadium builds etc, the GAA should divert some cash into upgrading county pitches in order that they remain playable no matter how wet the weather is.  I can think of several club grounds in Antrim alone that would be playable no matter how much rain has fallen - surely not so hard to think about making the same facilities available at county grounds.  Hopefully in the Casement upgrade, the pitch will be relaid as well as the stadium.

Aye our pitch is beside a river and is playable all year round!! We would get surface water but easily brushed off or ground could be spiked to elevate that water. I hope Casement is in good condition for Sunday!!

[playwiththewind1st]

As long as Joe McQuillan isn't officiating !!