Tragic Cases in Cork and Limerick

[tyrone girl]

No Tyrone Girl - I dont think you are.

All these factors are tied into the mental wellbeing of the nation on the whole. I think you are correct that you can't however start to point fingers at any one factor in a case such as this, but there is no denying that as a nation there are problems with alcohol abuse, and the treatment of mental ill health.


Seafoid - I'm surprised you think that the case in Cork, where a man killed his two children is related to depression. His own death perhaps can be attributed to depression - but killing his two kids because he was depressed? I wouldn't be accepting that at all. There are plenty of people suffering from depression, or who have suffered from depression in similar, and in worse circumstances - and infanticide was not an end result.

Agree with all this Puck - but what my point is that i dont think the mention of alcohol abuse or drug abuse for that matter has any place in this discussion.

[An Gaeilgoir]

TG

with respect, you don't understand depression. The father in Cork was severely depressed. He probably hadn't slept properly for a few weeks. His head was upside down. He felt suicidal, that his life was worthless and pointless and that the world would be better off without him, that he never should have been born . He decided to kill himself. In his head he thought that this would destroy his family. So he decided to kill his children too to save them from the awfulness of his suicide or something along those lines. He never would have done this if he had not been depressed.  It is impossible to understand the frame of mind of someone who thinks like that without understanding depression.

Wasn't this man attending a Doctor for treatment for depression. As for suicide i lost a close family member to this scourge 2 years ago and our local community was touched by it this weekend. Without going into the specifics of either case, neither a world standard mental health system or a tee-total country would have prevented either case. Also suicide/ Depression is not the issue here, this man killed his 2 kids while his wife was at work, that is psychotic and calculating beheviour not the work of a sucidal depressant.

[seafoid]

He should have been in a psychiatric hospital, Gaeilgeoir.  The papers didn't mention psychosis, just depression.

any news on the limerick case? 

[Puckoon]

He should have been in a psychiatric hospital, Gaeilgeoir.  The papers didn't mention psychosis, just depression.

any news on the limerick case?

The times are a changing. Back even 15 years ago - depression may well have had you in a psychiatric hospital, or perhaps it would have been over looked. Psychiatric medicine is being hugely driven now, and depression is no longer generally an inpatient hospitalised illness. Hell, schizophrenics are even walking the streets now, and managing to live relatively normal lives due to the advances in medicine and outpatient care. There is no way they could have forseen the need for inpatient psychiatric care based solely on a diagnosis of depression in 2010. Now - if they knew there was an underlying psychosis, then absolutely it is a disgrace if the man wasn't hospitalised.

[seafoid]

Puckoon

If he felt suicidal enough to actually kill himself he should not have been at home. The Irish Times is running a series on suicide this week and what links them all is the poor support for those reporting initial symptoms of depression.   

[pintsofguinness]

TG

with respect, you don't understand depression. The father in Cork was severely depressed. He probably hadn't slept properly for a few weeks. His head was upside down. He felt suicidal, that his life was worthless and pointless and that the world would be better off without him, that he never should have been born . He decided to kill himself. In his head he thought that this would destroy his family. So he decided to kill his children too to save them from the awfulness of his suicide or something along those lines. He never would have done this if he had not been depressed.  It is impossible to understand the frame of mind of someone who thinks like that without understanding depression.

Wasn't this man attending a Doctor for treatment for depression. As for suicide i lost a close family member to this scourge 2 years ago and our local community was touched by it this weekend. Without going into the specifics of either case, neither a world standard mental health system or a tee-total country would have prevented either case. Also suicide/ Depression is not the issue here, this man killed his 2 kids while his wife was at work, that is psychotic and calculating beheviour not the work of a sucidal depressant.

I've no idea what happened and I don't think it's helpful to be speculating however I want to point out that suicide can be a planned and calculated act (or it can seem sudden) therefore why would you rule it out in this case because he waited until his wife went to work?

[mylestheslasher]

TG

with respect, you don't understand depression. The father in Cork was severely depressed. He probably hadn't slept properly for a few weeks. His head was upside down. He felt suicidal, that his life was worthless and pointless and that the world would be better off without him, that he never should have been born . He decided to kill himself. In his head he thought that this would destroy his family. So he decided to kill his children too to save them from the awfulness of his suicide or something along those lines. He never would have done this if he had not been depressed.  It is impossible to understand the frame of mind of someone who thinks like that without understanding depression.

Wasn't this man attending a Doctor for treatment for depression. As for suicide i lost a close family member to this scourge 2 years ago and our local community was touched by it this weekend. Without going into the specifics of either case, neither a world standard mental health system or a tee-total country would have prevented either case. Also suicide/ Depression is not the issue here, this man killed his 2 kids while his wife was at work, that is psychotic and calculating beheviour not the work of a sucidal depressant.

I've no idea what happened and I don't think it's helpful to be speculating however I want to point out that suicide can be a planned and calculated act (or it can seem sudden) therefore why would you rule it out in this case because he waited until his wife went to work?

I tend to agree with pints and Seafoid on this. It does not appear the man had anything  to gain by killing his wife and kids so the most logical reasoning is  that he, in his malfunctioning brain, decided that what he was doing was best for his family. Anyone who knows anything about suicide knows that the people who carry out these actions are not thinking in a logical way and to apply normal logic to their actions is pointless.

There was a documentary a few years ago on a guy in England who got himself into such a financial mess that he lost his mind and decided to kill himself and whole family. Luckily he failed and got treatment and the program interviewed him to see what he was doing. He said that in his mind he was doing the whole thing out of a misplaced act of love for his family - to spare them from a terrible life of his making.

Whatever the reasons it is a terrible terrible tragedy and I count my lucky stars that my two kids are upstairs now sound asleep and safe in bed.

[spanner]

I have been watching this on the news and my heart goes out to the families involved. Is there anything more heart wrenching than the violent death of innocent children.

May they Rest in Peace.

[nrico2006]

No Tyrone Girl - I dont think you are.

All these factors are tied into the mental wellbeing of the nation on the whole. I think you are correct that you can't however start to point fingers at any one factor in a case such as this, but there is no denying that as a nation there are problems with alcohol abuse, and the treatment of mental ill health.


Seafoid - I'm surprised you think that the case in Cork, where a man killed his two children is related to depression. His own death perhaps can be attributed to depression - but killing his two kids because he was depressed? I wouldn't be accepting that at all. There are plenty of people suffering from depression, or who have suffered from depression in similar, and in worse circumstances - and infanticide was not an end result.

Puckoon

I agree that it is not usual in cases of depression for people to murder their kids - it is very rare - but it reminded me of a case in Spain where a depressed father jumped to his death from a holiday balcony with his child and the cause was depression. He survived and the child died.  He was tried under diminished responsibility. Can't find a link to it but it was a British father called John with an Irish surname and it was all over the papers a few years ago.

Or the Izaga case in London

http://www.thisislondon.co.uk/news/article-23399232-millionaire-executive-unhinged-by-horror-film-killed-daughter.do

Was this the one you were referring to seafoid?

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2009/may/30/john-hogan-crete-hotel-balcony