Recession Busting!

[Nally Stand]

£20million is to be donated to the RUC part time reservists or their families.

That's £2,500 per head as a thank you for their sterling work in the six counties. Relatives For Justice, speaking on behalf of collusions victims have strongly criticised the plans and are seeking legal advice, however Ross Hussey UUP (and former part time reservist, who is probably thinking of the bumper Christmas ahead) is after saying on the radio that "these people" (R.F.J./Collusion victims) should not be trying to justify opposing this plan and that they "don't understand" the gratitude owed to the part time reservists.

Unbelievable.

Any sign of a Link for that story, NS?

No?

Oh well, I'll just have to look for one myself.

Wait, here's one:

"The gratuity scheme formed part of the final deal that saw the devolution of policing and justice powers from Westminster to Stormont earlier this year"
Read more: http://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/news/local-national/northern-ireland/20m-fund-for-exparttime-officers-14998730.html#ixzz14nVhWqB2

Remind me again, which Political Party in NI, sorry, "the north", was most vocal in demanding the devolution of policing and justice powers?

Wasn't it the same Party as is currently demanding that, ahem, £20 million be spent on trying to revive a dead language in the north, as we speak? 

"Mr Adams has said the government pledged £20 million for the development of the Irish language during the Hillsborough Castle talks. He said some of the money will be given to the Irish Language Broadcast Fund"
Read more: http://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/news/local-national/northern-ireland/sf-to-continue-language-campaign-14998875.html#ixzz14nZM96sb

Of course one might conclude that SF is being hypocritical in demanding that one Agreement be implemented in full, whilst simultaneously objecting when another Agreement is so implemented.

Except that that would be "unbelievable" (to borrow your term...)

Honest to God where do you start. You'd think you would have reserved some criticism for the reservists. Oh well, each to their own.

I am well aware that a monetary scheme for these sectarian lowlifes was part of the deal struck at negotiations, is that supposed to make me agree with it?? I am not a representative of any political party EG. If SF were involved in this, I would clearly be unhappy with them. I do however note that this arrangement was, according to the BBC and the Belfast Telegraph, a "side deal between the DUP and the [British] Government" so why the rush to blame Sinn Féin, EG, when SF were not involved in this could you tell me?

Secondly, it's nice to see that you have so much respect for your own culture that you regard a payment to subsidise Irish Language growth as an equal crime to a "thank you" payment to some of the most sectarian bigots ever to be given a state uniform and a gun and who were up to their eyes in collusion with loyalist murderers.
More to the point, why single out Irish language? Firstly, it is not dead as the numbers studying it are increasing dramatically and secondly; is the funding of ulster scots (which by any definition isn't even a language) not an issue of more concern? On top of the funding it is already recieving, it is now to get another £2m a year bonus payment for developing an ulster scots academy! But then, there's no point in you bringing that up is there? That wouldn't allow you to bash SF.
Then again maybe it will. You bashed SF for the payment to the reservists when they had nothing to do with that 

[lynchbhoy]

that reply was "unbelievable" to use the phrase re-iterated !

where did the whinge at money for the 'Irish Language' come out of ?
Certainly not even the same city let alone the same ballpark !!
I'd have wondered who came up with such whataboutery nonsense until I saw who actually posted it !

unless the conversation was about wasting money in current economic climate on promotion of languages - then alstar skats and 'Irish' would then be under the microscope - while 'Irish ' is an actual language and not some 'makey uppy' tat - i'd still be in agreement that money should not be spent on such 'luxuries' in the present time certainly in the six counties.

as for the money to be paid to reservists, again this is a fanciful notion and complete waste of money in the present economic time - whatever about the political incorrectness of doing so.

still its sad to see old embedded stereotypes slipping out from usual suspects again.

i'd think the workers of the north of Ireland will have more to worry about when the civil service takes big hits in the near future. the good news is that jobs have been attracted to there from the likes of citi bank thanks to the Brit/Gov/EU/US initiative.

[Evil Genius]

Honest to God where do you start. You'd think you would have reserved some criticism for the reservists. Oh well, each to their own.

I am well aware that a monetary scheme for these sectarian lowlifes was part of the deal struck at negotiations, is that supposed to make me agree with it?? I am not a representative of any political party EG. If SF were involved in this, I would clearly be unhappy with them. I do however note that this arrangement was, according to the BBC and the Belfast Telegraph, a "side deal between the DUP and the [British] Government" so why the rush to blame Sinn Féin, EG, when SF were not involved in this could you tell me?

"Where to start", is it?

OK, let's start with the Reservists, then. You have a clearly expressed view which is directly at odds with my own. I could expound upon mine, you could reply, we could go on and on but however long we spent on it, we would not agree.

Which was why I chose to point out another aspect of your post, namely, it is convention that when quoting/commenting upon a news story like this, to provide a link to your original source. I thought it curious that you did not.

Therefore when I Googled it, I found that this payment was part of the overall deal which was negotiated to devolve P&J to NI. That is, the deal which was most vocally demanded by SF, in which they had at least as much a say as any other Party.

Of course, since news of this was inevitably going to emerge, SF pre-empted the announcement by releasing their own "leaked" version, so as to forestall and ""manage" the anger which would be felt amongst their own constituents.

On top of which, they also kicked up a fuss over the £20m which they claim was agreed to be spent on the Irish Language etc, essentially on the basis that it (Irish) was an essential part of the ovedrall deal, to which SF was a party, and over which they had at least an equal veto to all the other parties.

Yet you (entirely predictably) prefer to avoid these clear double standards, since they do not accord with your usual "SF can do no wrong" spiel.

Secondly, it's nice to see that you have so much respect for your own culture that you regard a payment to subsidise Irish Language growth as an equal crime to a "thank you" payment to some of the most sectarian bigots ever to be given a state uniform and a gun and who were up to their eyes in collusion with loyalist murderers.

Thank you for putting words in my mouth ("equal crime" etc), but I can quite happily speak for myself. On which point I did not seek to equate funding for Irish wiith payment to the RUCR.

Rather, I was contrasting the cavalier way in which SF, "cherry picks" its response to wide-ranging and complex agreements to which it has at all times been a willing and active participant. Sadly, with the way politics operate in NI, they are not alone in such practices. That is essentially because one of the consequences of the GFA/SAA etc is that the various parties are forced to "collude" in the devolved government of NI, in a way that allows for no formal, effective opposition.

As a result, they will all blithely sign up to an agreement behind doors, which essentially "divides up the sweeties" amongst themselves, before emerging on the steps of some castle or other, for their PhotoOp and Handshake Fest.

Then, when the details of what has actually been agreed begin to filter out, they all subsequently pop up separately in their own constituencies to try to deny the part they played in permitting "themmuns" to get their share of the sweeties, whilst simultaneously trumpeting how many sweeties they got for "ussuns".

Finally, when we have an election every couple of years, each party stands up and shouts how their horde of "sweeties" effectively amount to an imminent "United Ireland", or a permanent "United Kingdom", as appropriate.

And so it goes on...

More to the point, why single out Irish language? Firstly, it is not dead as the numbers studying it are increasing dramatically and secondly; is the funding of ulster scots (which by any definition isn't even a language) not an issue of more concern? On top of the funding it is already recieving, it is now to get another £2m a year bonus payment for developing an ulster scots academy! But then, there's no point in you bringing that up is there? That wouldn't allow you to bash SF.
Then again maybe it will. You bashed SF for the payment to the reservists when they had nothing to do with that 

I did not "single out" the Irish language; rather I contrasted it with SF's take on the Reservist payment, since they (SF) were simultaneously (though not coincidentally) banging the drum on Irish etc. And the sums involved were nicely symmetrical, too.

In other words, I was pointing out how SF play politics with issues like these, indeed do so rather successfully (at least when it comes to fooling the more gullible amongst their support, including - seemingly - yourself).

As for "Ulster Scots", nowhere, including here, have I ever defended the wasting of public money on a scam such as this, especially at a time when public money is so scarce for genuinely deserving causes.

And this is especially so when the whole Ulster-Scots lobby is just a political device by the DUP to fool the gullible amongst their own supporters, along the lines of "If Themmuns has got something, then Ussuns deserves something, as well".

Which would be bad enough in any case, but especially depresses me since I am actually someone who cares a great deal about language (and Languages, including Irish), and deplore it when arseholes like the DUP and SF hijack them for their own shabby, selfish, mean-spirited ends.

[Nally Stand]

Honest to God where do you start. You'd think you would have reserved some criticism for the reservists. Oh well, each to their own.

I am well aware that a monetary scheme for these sectarian lowlifes was part of the deal struck at negotiations, is that supposed to make me agree with it?? I am not a representative of any political party EG. If SF were involved in this, I would clearly be unhappy with them. I do however note that this arrangement was, according to the BBC and the Belfast Telegraph, a "side deal between the DUP and the [British] Government" so why the rush to blame Sinn Féin, EG, when SF were not involved in this could you tell me?

"Where to start", is it?

OK, let's start with the Reservists, then. You have a clearly expressed view which is directly at odds with my own. I could expound upon mine, you could reply, we could go on and on but however long we spent on it, we would not agree.

Which was why I chose to point out another aspect of your post, namely, it is convention that when quoting/commenting upon a news story like this, to provide a link to your original source. I thought it curious that you did not.

Therefore when I Googled it, I found that this payment was part of the overall deal which was negotiated to devolve P&J to NI. That is, the deal which was most vocally demanded by SF, in which they had at least as much a say as any other Party.

Of course, since news of this was inevitably going to emerge, SF pre-empted the announcement by releasing their own "leaked" version, so as to forestall and ""manage" the anger which would be felt amongst their own constituents.

On top of which, they also kicked up a fuss over the £20m which they claim was agreed to be spent on the Irish Language etc, essentially on the basis that it (Irish) was an essential part of the ovedrall deal, to which SF was a party, and over which they had at least an equal veto to all the other parties.

Yet you (entirely predictably) prefer to avoid these clear double standards, since they do not accord with your usual "SF can do no wrong" spiel.

Secondly, it's nice to see that you have so much respect for your own culture that you regard a payment to subsidise Irish Language growth as an equal crime to a "thank you" payment to some of the most sectarian bigots ever to be given a state uniform and a gun and who were up to their eyes in collusion with loyalist murderers.

Thank you for putting words in my mouth ("equal crime" etc), but I can quite happily speak for myself. On which point I did not seek to equate funding for Irish wiith payment to the RUCR.

Rather, I was contrasting the cavalier way in which SF, "cherry picks" its response to wide-ranging and complex agreements to which it has at all times been a willing and active participant. Sadly, with the way politics operate in NI, they are not alone in such practices. That is essentially because one of the consequences of the GFA/SAA etc is that the various parties are forced to "collude" in the devolved government of NI, in a way that allows for no formal, effective opposition.

As a result, they will all blithely sign up to an agreement behind doors, which essentially "divides up the sweeties" amongst themselves, before emerging on the steps of some castle or other, for their PhotoOp and Handshake Fest.

Then, when the details of what has actually been agreed begin to filter out, they all subsequently pop up separately in their own constituencies to try to deny the part they played in permitting "themmuns" to get their share of the sweeties, whilst simultaneously trumpeting how many sweeties they got for "ussuns".

Finally, when we have an election every couple of years, each party stands up and shouts how their horde of "sweeties" effectively amount to an imminent "United Ireland", or a permanent "United Kingdom", as appropriate.

And so it goes on...

More to the point, why single out Irish language? Firstly, it is not dead as the numbers studying it are increasing dramatically and secondly; is the funding of ulster scots (which by any definition isn't even a language) not an issue of more concern? On top of the funding it is already recieving, it is now to get another £2m a year bonus payment for developing an ulster scots academy! But then, there's no point in you bringing that up is there? That wouldn't allow you to bash SF.
Then again maybe it will. You bashed SF for the payment to the reservists when they had nothing to do with that 

I did not "single out" the Irish language; rather I contrasted it with SF's take on the Reservist payment, since they (SF) were simultaneously (though not coincidentally) banging the drum on Irish etc. And the sums involved were nicely symmetrical, too.

In other words, I was pointing out how SF play politics with issues like these, indeed do so rather successfully (at least when it comes to fooling the more gullible amongst their support, including - seemingly - yourself).

As for "Ulster Scots", nowhere, including here, have I ever defended the wasting of public money on a scam such as this, especially at a time when public money is so scarce for genuinely deserving causes.

And this is especially so when the whole Ulster-Scots lobby is just a political device by the DUP to fool the gullible amongst their own supporters, along the lines of "If Themmuns has got something, then Ussuns deserves something, as well".

Which would be bad enough in any case, but especially depresses me since I am actually someone who cares a great deal about language (and Languages, including Irish), and deplore it when arseholes like the DUP and SF hijack them for their own shabby, selfish, mean-spirited ends.

You care so much about languages, including Irish, that you just criticised SF for asking that money being spent on, to use your phrase "a dying language". If you cared so deeply about Irish, then why begrudge it this funding on the basis that you regard it as struggling? Surely then, you would welcome funding?

In saying that when you googled this payment,

I found that this payment was part of the overall deal which was negotiated to devolve P&J to NI. That is, the deal which was most vocally demanded by SF

you are being deliberately misleading. Your google searches probably would have showed up what they showed for me, which was that this payment was NOT a part of overall deal, as it was negotiated, as I already told you, as a "side deal" between the DUP and the British government during the negotiations over P&J. An e-mail to the OFMDFM, destined for Peter Robinson, was also sent to Martin McGuinness by mistake yesterday from Downing St, which detailed the £20m funding which I'm assuming is the basis for your conspiracy theory?http://www.u.tv/News/Government-letter-details-police-payment/df8c73bf-87c8-4f74-85f1-23f8005b64cd

This is entirely besides the point. You are the person who dragged Sinn Féin into this. I have pointed out that Sinn Féin were not involved in the negotiation of this package. You have presented an "I don't believe it, so it's not true" retort based on your "sweeties" theorem. Either way, it isn't important because, as I previously said, I don't care whether or not SF were involved. If they were not...good. If they were....it's wrong. (Strange thing to say for a "SF can do no wrong person" to say, don't you think? I do not realise the point that you are trying to make on the overall topic other than an excuse to bash SF as usual. As I say, if SF were involved as you suggest, it would have been totally and utterly WRONG of them but my point in starting this thread was not to debate who was behind it, but to vent anger and inform people who may not have heard about it, of what their taxes were being used for. My concern is for the families of collusion victims who do not deserve this middle finger shown to them.

As for referring to me as gullible, it never ceases to not surprise me how the 'anyone but Sinn Féin' brigade will always resort to personal abuse and a laughable attitude of arrogance such as that, on this board in substitute for proper discussion. Leave the abuse and arrogance at the door.