Chaos in Store

[Pangurban]

Heads of State of the European Union set to reject guarantees offered to Ireland to help push through Lisbon Treaty in a second referendum. Opposition being led by the Chech Presidency. This gives the lie to governments claims of rock solid guarantees, enshrined in law.  Does this utter shambles of a Government have any clue what they are doing. Are they representing Europe in Ireland or Ireland in Europe. Either way their word is being proved worthless

[RMDrive]

I thought this was going to be about the bull in the Supervalu shop in Ballinrobe.

[Shamrock Shore]

Don't worry - some auld fudge will be agreed.

Now that Libertas has imploded and the Shinners are off licking their wounds it would seem unless Joe Higgin MEP steps up to the mark the 'No' side will have very little bite in Lisbon II. So, the result will depend on voter apathy and whether the 'No' side bother their arses again registering their complaint.

I still think the only reason the Shinners were anti-Lisbon the last time was to get air-time. Seeing that the 'No' side has to get equal time they saw an opportunity to get Mary Lou's mush on the media to advance her profile.

Didn't really work, did it?

Where do the Shinners go now in the Republic? Answers on a stamp please.

[Donagh]

Don't worry - some auld fudge will be agreed.

Now that Libertas has imploded and the Shinners are off licking their wounds it would seem unless Joe Higgin MEP steps up to the mark the 'No' side will have very little bite in Lisbon II. So, the result will depend on voter apathy and whether the 'No' side bother their arses again registering their complaint.

I still think the only reason the Shinners were anti-Lisbon the last time was to get air-time. Seeing that the 'No' side has to get equal time they saw an opportunity to get Mary Lou's mush on the media to advance her profile.

Didn't really work, did it?

Where do the Shinners go now in the Republic? Answers on a stamp please.

No the media chose to put Ganley's mush on the telly instead.

Putting aside the usual Shinner bashing for a second, are you not prepared to admit that they performed a very necessary role in the last referendum in providing an opposition voice considering all of the establishment parties were leading us blindly into the EU Constitution? Also does Pangurbans post not vindicate what they were saying all along?

[Shamrock Shore]

Will wait and see what 'fudge' is formally agreed.

Brown is the main problem I think cos he'd have to go back the the Commons to get a vote agreeing to what Cowen wants and, as Brown is a political dead duck at the moment, he sees this as a problem.

Hey, I am all for opposition. But I do think that Sinn Fein saw the 'gap in the market' and went for it. As did that tool Ganly who is now looking at major problems as the Dublin candidate is in contact with her solicitors and Libertas all over Europe are sending in their bills to the bauld Declan.

[lynchbhoy]

Def not inspiring stuff to make you go out and vote for the lisbon treaty.

I think if Cowen hadnt gone after any guarantees the people would have voted yes anyhow in a hope that it would help kickstart growth back into the economy etc etc

as for SF, still too many 'hoods' looking for election in Ireland (ironically the candidates in the north generally are not 'hoods') , but once these are replaced by ordinary folk like mary lou, ms ferris etc then the potential for election will be far greater.
I think sf are in it for the long haul, once reunification gathers speed and eventually happens, they will be in a very commanding place.
Also I think its only a matter of time before ff tries to align themselves with sf (which would destroy the sf party eventually down here like ff did to the greens).
Sure even fg tried an alliance ! ! !

[Donagh]

The SF position of European has been consistent for many years now and IMO is a very principled stand. A lot of that has been down their positioning on the left by my old mate Eoin Ó Broin who was their Director of European Affairs, though I now hear rumblings of them throwing their lot in with the Scots and Welsh nationalists since Eoin was replaced. If that happens I think Bairbre can kiss goodbye to my vote.

[Gnevin]

European leaders will this morning give Ireland the guarantees on the Lisbon Treaty it has sought, crucially with a pledge to incorporate them in a future EU treaty.

Agreement on the shape of the deal followed an early morning meeting between Taoiseach Brian Cowen and the British Prime Minister Gordon Brown at which the latter indicated that the British would no longer stand in the way of a reference to a future protocol.

The Irish guarantees will now be enshrined in a formal declaration of the European Council, which itself has legal force, and the summit will also indicate separately in its conclusions a willingness to return to the issue to copperfasten the interpreations of the treaty in the next treaty agreed between member-states, likely to be that providing for Croatian accession in a couple of years.

The specific guarantees, which do not change the Lisbon Treaty, but provide a common interpretation of it, pledge that nothing in the treaty will affect Ireland's constitutional provisions on abortion and the family, its right to determine its own tax regime, or force the state to sign up to European defence co-operation. A previous summit in December agreed that member-states would also retain their right to an individual commissioner.

This morning's deal will represent considerable relief to the Taoiseach who yesterday made clear to fellow leaders in a candid private letter, widely leaked, that he needed the protocol in addition to any legally binding statement to provide greater legal certainty. He warned that the press had already made the character of the legal guarantee an issue and reminded them that French President Nicolas Sarkozy had promised a protocol.

With agreement on the guarantees in place the Government can now procede with plans for the referendum expected to be in early October and will next week publish the details of legislation on a referendum commission.

http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/breaking/2009/0619/breaking26.htm

[TacadoirArdMhacha]

The SF position of European has been consistent for many years now and IMO is a very principled stand. A lot of that has been down their positioning on the left by my old mate Eoin Ó Broin who was their Director of European Affairs, though I now hear rumblings of them throwing their lot in with the Scots and Welsh nationalists since Eoin was replaced. If that happens I think Bairbre can kiss goodbye to my vote.

That is correct and the reason why I don't think its fair to say that SF spotted a "gap in the market" as regards their opposition to Lisbon. Have they not opposed every European treaty since the 1970s? So really what they were doing in maintaining a long held position.

[Pangurban]

The Fianna Failures have now decided to add insult to injury by treating us all as thick Paddies. The so called legal assurances they now claim to have negotiated are as useful and relevant as Neville Chamberlains Peace In Our Time assurances. As they are not based on any protocol within the actual Lisbon Treaty,  they will be unenforceable in any European Court, and they well know it. But they hasten to assure us that at a later date moves will be made to have these assurances in the Treaty. Live Horse and you will get Grass. Another massive con and sell out