Author Topic: Down v Armagh (Park Esler 16:00) 19/05/2019  (Read 12143 times)

illdecide

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Re: Down v Armagh (Park Esler 16:00) 19/05/2019
« Reply #165 on: May 20, 2019, 01:06:03 PM »
Has a venue and time been confirmed for cavan game?
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Ethan Tremblay

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Re: Down v Armagh (Park Esler 16:00) 19/05/2019
« Reply #166 on: May 20, 2019, 01:13:42 PM »
Watched the deferred coverage without knowing the score.  Armagh need to learn how to put the foot on the throat and press down when presented with the chance. 

All credit to Down, Mooney is undoubtably their key man and players could have dropped their heads but dug deep to grind out the draw in normal time, and indeed lead in extra time.  Although they were beaten, Down will take away a lot more from this game than Armagh in my eyes. 

Regarding the goalkeeping situation, the second choice goalkeeper got injured a few days prior to the match, hence why OíNeil was down as the number 16, nothing more in that.  Heard the rumour that a player was approached to do nets also who would usually play FF.  Apparently he had goalkeeping experience from underage, and its not uncommon for outfield players to jump into nets, after all does Hughes not play outfield for his club??

Regarding the team selection, I can only assume players have been in the first 15 based on form and not merit, hence the omission of Campbell, Morgan and co.  I thought Grugan was poor enough yesterday and throughout the year tbh.  He may be more useful as an impact sub, but his staring place has to be questioned and the team needs to be cutthroat. 

Armagh now have two weeks to right the wrongs of yesterday and prepare for Cavan.  The team has the most potential it has had in 15 years, it would be a shame if it was not fulfilled. 
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BennyCake

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Re: Down v Armagh (Park Esler 16:00) 19/05/2019
« Reply #167 on: May 20, 2019, 01:37:19 PM »
If Armaghís GK no 2 got injured last week, I donít see the issue with an outfielder as sub GK. the odds are that the sub GK is rarely needed.

Having said that, Down sub GK looked in trouble. If he had to go off, would Down have been criticised for not having a no 3 GK?

Gold

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Re: Down v Armagh (Park Esler 16:00) 19/05/2019
« Reply #168 on: May 20, 2019, 01:39:34 PM »
I'm kinda surprised at the opinion that James Morgan did well when he came on.
I thought he gave away some really stupid frees. Seems to be a bit of a liability to be honest

Some good, some bad

Kicked a score but kicked a fair amount of ball away
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yellowcard

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Re: Down v Armagh (Park Esler 16:00) 19/05/2019
« Reply #169 on: May 20, 2019, 01:43:45 PM »
A entertaining game for both sets of fans and neutrals id say.
Armagh are their own worst enemies, with a baffling starting 15 and team set up and a style of play that doesnt play to their strengths. They invited a more mobile and fluid Down side onto them by retreating into their own half with multiple sweepers even when 5pts up which was beggars belief. Down worked a similar system but worked it better it seemed. Armagh barged down blind allies carrying the ball into a swarm of red n black and repeatedly turned ball over. Individual flashes of quality and a jammy goal saw them over the line but only just.

Down impressed due to their hunger and energy and clear commitment to a system of play that suits their personnel/size. They looked a well coached and disciplined side and the more the game wore on they looked the side with more belief in what they were doing, even if the sending off and black card derailed them slightly. This young side demonstrated alot of the qualities that have been missing in recent years and the lesser-known players really stepped up at critical junctures in the game. There is definitely room for improvement in that side and with a bit of momentum and a few wins they could form a decent side.

For me, Mooney shouldnt have seen red. Yes he has a duty of care to the man he attempts to tackle but with the speed/angle he was going at and with Nugent checking back inside, any contact was going to look severe. There was no clear raising of an elbow or arm to make contact but rather a shaping to shoulder which clearly was mistimed or misdirected. His direct running and ability to punch holes in the Armagh defence was a massive loss.

Down also have an issue with goalkeepers it seems and thats worrying.

BCB1, i dont know the ins and outs whet youse have done on Clarke up there but i have to agree with you. Its not personal but no player has any business on a county panel yet alone playing unless they are there representing their club. Dont play for a club then you shouldnt be playing for county.

Rory Grugan shouldnt be starting for Armagh due to form and he certainly isnt fit to capt an intercounty team. Lacks leadership, presence and above all he doesnt inspire at all.

Team selection baffles too. Morgan has to start but only if he is muzzled and can behave. Armagh carrying too many older heads that McGeeney seems very loyal to, fellas that arent as mobile or fit for the athleticism of the modern game. You cant be starting Vernon, Forker, Donaghy and Ethan Rafferty all on the same team. There are more athletic and dynamic players on the bench and when you see Vernon being brought back on again youd have to ask yourself some questions if you were a sub.
Goalkeeping situation is a joke with Jack Grugan being asked to fill in as a goalkeeper in recent weeks and the Oisin O'Neil named as no 16 on matchday. Something not right there, but then again everyone knows McGeeney has no time for Goalkeepers.

He also needs to look at his conduct at full time. The macho bullsh!t and chest beating precipitates down through that team and it comes from the management team. Down had an inferior team on paper and are behind in terms of their development compared to Armagh but if i were an Armagh fan id be rippin at how that game went yesterday

Coming from a Down man that is a good assessment of where Armagh stand. McGeeney still likes to go with physique over mobility and athleticism. Yet he marry's this by flooding the defence and playing a running game. If he is intent on playing a running game then he should be playing faster, more mobile & athletic players. Donaghy has never been the same after injuries and has been ordinary now for several years yet still gets the role of defensive general. Vernon is probably on the decline now whilst Rafferty does not suit that running game at all. Grugan was poor yesterday and does look a very unlikely captain because he has always appeared to me to be a confidence player. Lots of ability but can let things that happen during a game affect his performance.

Armagh were less than the sum of their parts yesterday and individual talent probably won them that match. O'Neill was brilliant on his debut and if Murnin gets back fit and Soupy starts as he should, then there is a seriously talented forward line there. But they need ball kicked into them to see them at their best not players constantly soloing head down. Burns had a good game on his debut in terms of winning possession yet he has an awful habit of putting the head down and solo running into cul de sacs which will not work against better opposition. The other lads like Kennedy and Nugent performed well on their debuts so you couldn't question any of the 4 new players yesterday, they were in fact 4 of the best performers overall.   

Gold

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Re: Down v Armagh (Park Esler 16:00) 19/05/2019
« Reply #170 on: May 20, 2019, 01:46:13 PM »
If Armaghís GK no 2 got injured last week, I donít see the issue with an outfielder as sub GK. the odds are that the sub GK is rarely needed.

Having said that, Down sub GK looked in trouble. If he had to go off, would Down have been criticised for not having a no 3 GK?

Don't Cluxton and Niall Morgan play outfield for their clubs

Down sub keeper was nervous and ropey AF ...hoofing every kickout straight up in the air old school style....made for a better spectacle!!

Anytime i played id have wanted to face a wee goalkeeper. In my team i wanted a huge keeper, Paul Hearty style. Armagh keeper looks like a minor. Totally see the justification in putting a big man in there, whether he plays out the field for his club or not

Armagh  shouldve pushed up when Mooney sent off...not deploy a 2nd, do nothing, sweeper. Down just brought the ball in and then kicked it over the sweeper/s. How Down (and Armagh) didnt kick more long balls in i'll never know. 1st 2 long balls for Down resulted in Harrison point and Havern goal....then they just stopped. Madness

« Last Edit: May 20, 2019, 03:45:02 PM by Gold »
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general_lee

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Re: Down v Armagh (Park Esler 16:00) 19/05/2019
« Reply #171 on: May 20, 2019, 02:30:36 PM »
Canít really add anything that hasnít been said. Entertaining but more because of two poor-ish enough teams

Jarly Og and OíNeill the two standouts for Armagh, Harrison and McKernan very good for Down. Debutants on both sides all put in good shifts.

On the incident with McGeeney, McKernan was acting the candyman all through the match slabbering away in players ears and demonstrating the lack of class one can only expect from someone from Burren so I have no qualms with Geezer giving him a gentle reminder to f**k up. Maybe not the best example for young fans watching but Iím sure the players didnít mind

bigarsedkeeper

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Re: Down v Armagh (Park Esler 16:00) 19/05/2019
« Reply #172 on: May 20, 2019, 03:48:14 PM »
If Armaghís GK no 2 got injured last week, I donít see the issue with an outfielder as sub GK. the odds are that the sub GK is rarely needed.

Having said that, Down sub GK looked in trouble. If he had to go off, would Down have been criticised for not having a no 3 GK?

Don't Cluxton and Niall Morgan play outfield for their clubs

Down sub keeper was nervous and ropey AF ...hoofing every kickout straight up in the air old school style....made for a better spectacle!!

Anytime i played id have wanted to face a wee goalkeeper. In my team i wanted a huge keeper, Paul Hearty style. Armagh keeper looks like a minor. Totally see the justification in putting a big man in there, whether he plays out the field for his club or not

Armagh  shouldve pushed up when Mooney sent off...not deploy a 2nd, do nothing, sweeper. Dwon just brought the ball in and then kicked it over the keeper. How Down (and Armagh) didnt kick more long balls in i'll never know. 1st 2 long balls for Down resulted in Harrison point and Havern goal....then they just stopped. Madness

A small keeper will always be crucified if a goal goes in from a high ball situation. But Beggan has been caught out a few times with it in the last few years too and there's not much said about it. Full backs aren't as good as dealing with it as they used to be either and keepers have to deal with less of it in todays game. Nothing worse than if you are coming out to take a high ball and the full back stands looking at you. The least they should do is keep the man out or make it difficult for them to get on top of the keeper. The Murnin goal was bad work from both the full back at the time (he's not a full back to be fair to him) and the keeper.

To be fair to the Down sub keeper that was a nightmare situation for him to come in there on the back of black card. I'm all on for keepers getting more involved in the game helping to keep possession at the back and helping out defenders under pressure but you shouldn't be out near the middle of the pitch unless the other team has completely dropped back. Its just too high risk in most cases for most keepers

Sportacus

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Re: Down v Armagh (Park Esler 16:00) 19/05/2019
« Reply #173 on: May 20, 2019, 04:16:56 PM »
When all the Armagh forwards are fit they will have a serious unit.  Itís all their fouling machines at the back who will ensure they donít go far.  Never ceases to amaze me how many defenders just bog into the attacker, give away a free, and then moan about it.  That said, play acting when fouled is creeping in at an alarming rate.

Armamike

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Re: Down v Armagh (Park Esler 16:00) 19/05/2019
« Reply #174 on: May 20, 2019, 04:50:20 PM »
When all the Armagh forwards are fit they will have a serious unit.  Itís all their fouling machines at the back who will ensure they donít go far.  Never ceases to amaze me how many defenders just bog into the attacker, give away a free, and then moan about it.  That said, play acting when fouled is creeping in at an alarming rate.

And they never learn! Stand the forward up, make life difficult for him, and wait for a bit of cover. Don't bloody dive in.
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Brick Tamlin

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Re: Down v Armagh (Park Esler 16:00) 19/05/2019
« Reply #175 on: May 20, 2019, 04:51:41 PM »
Morgan, McCabe, Donaghy, McKay and Burns all card magnets.
Morgan and McCabe would be especially poor at staying card-free or finishing out games and yet theyre lauded for being 'old-school' types. Armagh's tackling is woeful to say the least. Id love someone to explain to me why theres a need to thump a guy, barge clean into him or drop the knees on him on the floor AFTER the foul is given. Is it stupidity of misguided macho bullsh!t?

Be a proper defender, beat your man to the ball fairly, disposes him without taking his head off, force him into a mistake or pressure him into making a poor choice.

RadioGAAGAA

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Re: Down v Armagh (Park Esler 16:00) 19/05/2019
« Reply #176 on: May 20, 2019, 05:31:01 PM »
Never ceases to amaze me how many defenders just bog into the attacker, give away a free, and then moan about it.

Many would rather give away a free than let yer man away - worst case there is a goal.

That said - some of the frees given away are wild stupid. Man heading away to the sideline with no room to work in and a cheap tackle gives them an easy out.
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imtommygunn

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Re: Down v Armagh (Park Esler 16:00) 19/05/2019
« Reply #177 on: May 20, 2019, 05:45:12 PM »
What was going on between mooney and Morgan at full time? I assume Morgan must have been at him for getting sent off or was it more than that?

David McKeown

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Re: Down v Armagh (Park Esler 16:00) 19/05/2019
« Reply #178 on: May 20, 2019, 07:16:00 PM »
Morgan, McCabe, Donaghy, McKay and Burns all card magnets.
Morgan and McCabe would be especially poor at staying card-free or finishing out games and yet theyre lauded for being 'old-school' types. Armagh's tackling is woeful to say the least. Id love someone to explain to me why theres a need to thump a guy, barge clean into him or drop the knees on him on the floor AFTER the foul is given. Is it stupidity of misguided macho bullsh!t?

Be a proper defender, beat your man to the ball fairly, disposes him without taking his head off, force him into a mistake or pressure him into making a poor choice.

Iíd ordinarily agree and maybe a lot was down to the referee but I think Morgan only conceded one free yesterday and seemed a lot more disciplined o hope itís a sign of things to come as I think heís an excellent defender.

charlieTully

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Re: Down v Armagh (Park Esler 16:00) 19/05/2019
« Reply #179 on: May 20, 2019, 10:27:12 PM »
Canít really add anything that hasnít been said. Entertaining but more because of two poor-ish enough teams

Jarly Og and OíNeill the two standouts for Armagh, Harrison and McKernan very good for Down. Debutants on both sides all put in good shifts.

On the incident with McGeeney, McKernan was acting the candyman all through the match slabbering away in players ears and demonstrating the lack of class one can only expect from someone from Burren so I have no qualms with Geezer giving him a gentle reminder to f**k up. Maybe not the best example for young fans watching but Iím sure the players didnít mind


You make it real easy to despise Armagh. Hope Cavan destroy yis.