Author Topic: Down v Armagh (Park Esler 16:00) 19/05/2019  (Read 12310 times)

brokencrossbar1

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Re: Down v Armagh (Park Esler 16:00) 19/05/2019
« Reply #150 on: May 20, 2019, 11:16:14 AM »
A curate's egg of a performance.  Firstly, well done to all involved in the win. To win in the Ulster Championship has been a very big psychological hurdle for this group but an important thing was that there were 4-5 who have not played or played very little in Ulster so the baggage was not there and they had some freedom to play.  Also, beating Down in Newry is always a good result and given that they hadn't been beaten in 63 years in championship makes it even better.

The positives are there.  Some good defenders but still a bit below level as a unit.  Thought Kennedy out in a very good shift for a newbie and Morgan did well when he came in.    In MF Burns did well and I think he will compliment Niall Grimley very well when he gets back fully fit.  Vernon is not the man for MF anymore but may be useful on the square as some have suggested as there is a serious lack of strength back there.

Up front Nugent impressed on his debut and he has a good opportunity now to establish himself.  Clarke played better than he has for a while which makes his refusal to play for his club even more frustrating.  I have major reservations about this whole scenario and it seems to be being brushed under the carpet to an extent.  The notion that a player can openly refuse to play for his club and then play for the county is unsettling.  I recall during my playing days when we were going for an All Ireland and the Armagh management at the time threatened to have Oisin, the Twins and Paul Hearty suspended from the club scene as they wouldn't play National League.  We were playing in an Ulster Final the week after a National league game,  back when there were games pre-Christmas.  This notion of the county outweighing the club is something I find unfair and really it sends a bad message that a lad can play for the county and not play for the club.  It won't happen but questions should be raised as this open action of refusing to play for your club while playing for the county is wrong and goes against the ethos of the game in my opinion.

Anyway,  the performance of Rian was outstanding and he certainly has it all.  If Grimley, Murnin and Oisin O'Neill can get back fit I think between them there is a central spine from MF forward that can be devastating if properly utilized.  The pure talent these lads have is exceptional and if the right players are played round them then they can do anything in my opinion.  If I was picking the team from MF forward and all were fit I would play Grimley and Burns in MF, a half forward line of Clarke, O O'Neill and Nugent and a FF line triangle of 2 targets in Rian and Murnin with Soupy floating either side of them.  Soupy and Jamie could interchange from HF to FF lines. 

As you will see Grugan is not in the team and to be honest this brings me to my negatives.  I thought he was poor and has been poor for some time.  He is captain and it is not suiting him.  He is not a big game player and certainly not a leader.  I actually thought that was one of the big concerns yesterday in terms of leadership and calmness at key times.  The game should have been won in normal time.  Down were a busted flush with 14 men (rightly so,  clear red card), and with a keeper gone for a black card.  The game management was poor and the experienced players like Grugan, Donaghy, Forker, etc should have been taking control of the game at different times and calming the whole thing down.  Lying down, cramp etc, break up momentum.  This didn't happen.  Some of the football was kamikaze and the OG goal summed that up.  Leadership is needed.  There is no disputing the drive and desire but there needs to be a bit more cuteness.

As alluded to already there is an issue at the FB and GK position in my opinion.  I have suggested Vernon at FB but that is just a sticky plaster.  Blaine Hughes is a decent keeper but he is a weak link as he has limited presence.  I have heard a story about an outfield player was approached to play goals and he subsequently removed himself from the panel.  This player would have a significant better presence that Hughes so maybe that was the thinking.  Long term there needs to be a bit of clever thinking about this position.

Management made decent substitutions but also made a few head scratchers.  Also the whole McGeeney incident with McKernan was embarrassing and out of line for his part. As a manager you need to have a bit of coolness and leadership and in that one incident this was lacking.  If the rules are applied he could be looking at 12 weeks in the stand.

Finally,  and not to piss on people's chips,  but this is  a very poor Down team.  They couldn't get out of Division 3.  We played against 14 men for 40 minutes,  we were 5 points up with time almost up and drew and we were 4 up with time up in ET and conceded poorly again. This will not do against Cavan, whom I thought looked excellent on Saturday night. 

Some good some bad but the key thing is a win.  Confidence and momentum can hopefully build.

Brick Tamlin

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Re: Down v Armagh (Park Esler 16:00) 19/05/2019
« Reply #151 on: May 20, 2019, 11:25:47 AM »
A entertaining game for both sets of fans and neutrals id say.
Armagh are their own worst enemies, with a baffling starting 15 and team set up and a style of play that doesnt play to their strengths. They invited a more mobile and fluid Down side onto them by retreating into their own half with multiple sweepers even when 5pts up which was beggars belief. Down worked a similar system but worked it better it seemed. Armagh barged down blind allies carrying the ball into a swarm of red n black and repeatedly turned ball over. Individual flashes of quality and a jammy goal saw them over the line but only just.

Down impressed due to their hunger and energy and clear commitment to a system of play that suits their personnel/size. They looked a well coached and disciplined side and the more the game wore on they looked the side with more belief in what they were doing, even if the sending off and black card derailed them slightly. This young side demonstrated alot of the qualities that have been missing in recent years and the lesser-known players really stepped up at critical junctures in the game. There is definitely room for improvement in that side and with a bit of momentum and a few wins they could form a decent side.

For me, Mooney shouldnt have seen red. Yes he has a duty of care to the man he attempts to tackle but with the speed/angle he was going at and with Nugent checking back inside, any contact was going to look severe. There was no clear raising of an elbow or arm to make contact but rather a shaping to shoulder which clearly was mistimed or misdirected. His direct running and ability to punch holes in the Armagh defence was a massive loss.

Down also have an issue with goalkeepers it seems and thats worrying.

BCB1, i dont know the ins and outs whet youse have done on Clarke up there but i have to agree with you. Its not personal but no player has any business on a county panel yet alone playing unless they are there representing their club. Dont play for a club then you shouldnt be playing for county.

Rory Grugan shouldnt be starting for Armagh due to form and he certainly isnt fit to capt an intercounty team. Lacks leadership, presence and above all he doesnt inspire at all.

Team selection baffles too. Morgan has to start but only if he is muzzled and can behave. Armagh carrying too many older heads that McGeeney seems very loyal to, fellas that arent as mobile or fit for the athleticism of the modern game. You cant be starting Vernon, Forker, Donaghy and Ethan Rafferty all on the same team. There are more athletic and dynamic players on the bench and when you see Vernon being brought back on again youd have to ask yourself some questions if you were a sub.
Goalkeeping situation is a joke with Jack Grugan being asked to fill in as a goalkeeper in recent weeks and the Oisin O'Neil named as no 16 on matchday. Something not right there, but then again everyone knows McGeeney has no time for Goalkeepers.

He also needs to look at his conduct at full time. The macho bullsh!t and chest beating precipitates down through that team and it comes from the management team. Down had an inferior team on paper and are behind in terms of their development compared to Armagh but if i were an Armagh fan id be rippin at how that game went yesterday
« Last Edit: May 20, 2019, 11:42:07 AM by Brick Tamlin »

Keyser soze

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Re: Down v Armagh (Park Esler 16:00) 19/05/2019
« Reply #152 on: May 20, 2019, 11:34:25 AM »
A curate's egg of a performance.  Firstly, well done to all involved in the win. To win in the Ulster Championship has been a very big psychological hurdle for this group but an important thing was that there were 4-5 who have not played or played very little in Ulster so the baggage was not there and they had some freedom to play.  Also, beating Down in Newry is always a good result and given that they hadn't been beaten in 63 years in championship makes it even better.

The positives are there.  Some good defenders but still a bit below level as a unit.  Thought Kennedy out in a very good shift for a newbie and Morgan did well when he came in.    In MF Burns did well and I think he will compliment Niall Grimley very well when he gets back fully fit.  Vernon is not the man for MF anymore but may be useful on the square as some have suggested as there is a serious lack of strength back there.

Up front Nugent impressed on his debut and he has a good opportunity now to establish himself.  Clarke played better than he has for a while which makes his refusal to play for his club even more frustrating.  I have major reservations about this whole scenario and it seems to be being brushed under the carpet to an extent.  The notion that a player can openly refuse to play for his club and then play for the county is unsettling.  I recall during my playing days when we were going for an All Ireland and the Armagh management at the time threatened to have Oisin, the Twins and Paul Hearty suspended from the club scene as they wouldn't play National League.  We were playing in an Ulster Final the week after a National league game,  back when there were games pre-Christmas.  This notion of the county outweighing the club is something I find unfair and really it sends a bad message that a lad can play for the county and not play for the club.  It won't happen but questions should be raised as this open action of refusing to play for your club while playing for the county is wrong and goes against the ethos of the game in my opinion.

Anyway,  the performance of Rian was outstanding and he certainly has it all.  If Grimley, Murnin and Oisin O'Neill can get back fit I think between them there is a central spine from MF forward that can be devastating if properly utilized.  The pure talent these lads have is exceptional and if the right players are played round them then they can do anything in my opinion.  If I was picking the team from MF forward and all were fit I would play Grimley and Burns in MF, a half forward line of Clarke, O O'Neill and Nugent and a FF line triangle of 2 targets in Rian and Murnin with Soupy floating either side of them.  Soupy and Jamie could interchange from HF to FF lines. 

As you will see Grugan is not in the team and to be honest this brings me to my negatives.  I thought he was poor and has been poor for some time.  He is captain and it is not suiting him.  He is not a big game player and certainly not a leader.  I actually thought that was one of the big concerns yesterday in terms of leadership and calmness at key times.  The game should have been won in normal time.  Down were a busted flush with 14 men (rightly so,  clear red card), and with a keeper gone for a black card.  The game management was poor and the experienced players like Grugan, Donaghy, Forker, etc should have been taking control of the game at different times and calming the whole thing down. Lying down, cramp etc, break up momentum.  This didn't happen.  Some of the football was kamikaze and the OG goal summed that up.  Leadership is needed.  There is no disputing the drive and desire but there needs to be a bit more cuteness.

As alluded to already there is an issue at the FB and GK position in my opinion.  I have suggested Vernon at FB but that is just a sticky plaster.  Blaine Hughes is a decent keeper but he is a weak link as he has limited presence.  I have heard a story about an outfield player was approached to play goals and he subsequently removed himself from the panel.  This player would have a significant better presence that Hughes so maybe that was the thinking.  Long term there needs to be a bit of clever thinking about this position.

Management made decent substitutions but also made a few head scratchers.  Also the whole McGeeney incident with McKernan was embarrassing and out of line for his part. As a manager you need to have a bit of coolness and leadership and in that one incident this was lacking.  If the rules are applied he could be looking at 12 weeks in the stand.

Finally,  and not to piss on people's chips,  but this is  a very poor Down team.  They couldn't get out of Division 3.  We played against 14 men for 40 minutes,  we were 5 points up with time almost up and drew and we were 4 up with time up in ET and conceded poorly again. This will not do against Cavan, whom I thought looked excellent on Saturday night. 

Some good some bad but the key thing is a win.  Confidence and momentum can hopefully build.

Maybe it was just me but I thought Armagh did plenty of lying down, didn't count the number but it appeared to me that the Armagh players  hit the ground after any contact no matter how slight and the physio was on to give them a wee rub and a drink.  Not saying this didn't happen with the Down players too but it seemed to happen repeatedly for Armagh after there was any contact whatsoever.

In general this 'lie down after contact and don't get up until the physio comes on and says there there' is a complete PITA, big strong lads getting the slightest tap and lying down as if poleaxed, embarassing tbh. 

Also why both teams were f****** about with handpasses around the middle when it was clear if you kicked the ball in long you were gonna get a goal was beyond me. 

illdecide

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Re: Down v Armagh (Park Esler 16:00) 19/05/2019
« Reply #153 on: May 20, 2019, 11:57:04 AM »
I'm not a fan of KMcG TBH but don't think there was much in that incident yesterday to warrant any bans, I know he shouldn't have done it and he barely moved McKernan and to be fair to McKernan he just brushed on past...a nothing moment. I know you wouldn't see Micky Harte doing stupid stuff like that but hey...

When Down got a man sent off i was just hoping KMcG would have had the balls to throw an extra man up front (this would have forced Down to go long with their kick outs rather than letting them have possession every time from their own kick outs) and go for it instead of having another sweeper ::), the game was decent entertainment but not the best of quality but a win is a win and we'll take it. Cavan will be big favourites to beat Armagh and rightly so but i'd much rather face Cavan than Monaghan TBH.

Agreed Rory G was very poor yesterday along with E Rafferty, Vernon and A Forker was just ok (I'd imagine the 3rd minute yellow card curtailed him a bit) but to end on a positive there was 6-7 lads who played well...J Clarke, S Campbell, J Burns, R O'Neill, Morgan, Nugent & Murnin when he came on...
KMcG has some thinking to do for 2 weeks time as a few lads there who were benched yesterday played a lot better than the starters, M Shields done well when introduced and Ben Crealey too although I think Ben looks a bit light but really benefited yesterday that most of the players looked fecked in extra time and he'd a lot of energy around the middle. Assuming Murnin has no reaction to yesterday then he'll be in contention for 2 weeks time and if not starting be at least good for a full 35 mins, I believe O O'Neill is almost fit too...Jasus a win against Cavan and them lads getting more time to get fit from their injuries would leave us in a lot better shape...An ulster final leaves us to win one game to get into the Super 8's (a f*ck i'm getting carried away here...lol)...

Where is Cavan match in 2 weeks?
Did Sheridan get a bad injury yesterday?

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lurganblue

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Re: Down v Armagh (Park Esler 16:00) 19/05/2019
« Reply #154 on: May 20, 2019, 12:00:30 PM »
A curate's egg of a performance.  Firstly, well done to all involved in the win. To win in the Ulster Championship has been a very big psychological hurdle for this group but an important thing was that there were 4-5 who have not played or played very little in Ulster so the baggage was not there and they had some freedom to play.  Also, beating Down in Newry is always a good result and given that they hadn't been beaten in 63 years in championship makes it even better.

The positives are there.  Some good defenders but still a bit below level as a unit.  Thought Kennedy out in a very good shift for a newbie and Morgan did well when he came in.    In MF Burns did well and I think he will compliment Niall Grimley very well when he gets back fully fit.  Vernon is not the man for MF anymore but may be useful on the square as some have suggested as there is a serious lack of strength back there.

Up front Nugent impressed on his debut and he has a good opportunity now to establish himself.  Clarke played better than he has for a while which makes his refusal to play for his club even more frustrating.  I have major reservations about this whole scenario and it seems to be being brushed under the carpet to an extent.  The notion that a player can openly refuse to play for his club and then play for the county is unsettling.  I recall during my playing days when we were going for an All Ireland and the Armagh management at the time threatened to have Oisin, the Twins and Paul Hearty suspended from the club scene as they wouldn't play National League.  We were playing in an Ulster Final the week after a National league game,  back when there were games pre-Christmas.  This notion of the county outweighing the club is something I find unfair and really it sends a bad message that a lad can play for the county and not play for the club.  It won't happen but questions should be raised as this open action of refusing to play for your club while playing for the county is wrong and goes against the ethos of the game in my opinion.

Anyway,  the performance of Rian was outstanding and he certainly has it all.  If Grimley, Murnin and Oisin O'Neill can get back fit I think between them there is a central spine from MF forward that can be devastating if properly utilized.  The pure talent these lads have is exceptional and if the right players are played round them then they can do anything in my opinion.  If I was picking the team from MF forward and all were fit I would play Grimley and Burns in MF, a half forward line of Clarke, O O'Neill and Nugent and a FF line triangle of 2 targets in Rian and Murnin with Soupy floating either side of them.  Soupy and Jamie could interchange from HF to FF lines. 

As you will see Grugan is not in the team and to be honest this brings me to my negatives.  I thought he was poor and has been poor for some time.  He is captain and it is not suiting him.  He is not a big game player and certainly not a leader.  I actually thought that was one of the big concerns yesterday in terms of leadership and calmness at key times.  The game should have been won in normal time.  Down were a busted flush with 14 men (rightly so,  clear red card), and with a keeper gone for a black card.  The game management was poor and the experienced players like Grugan, Donaghy, Forker, etc should have been taking control of the game at different times and calming the whole thing down.  Lying down, cramp etc, break up momentum.  This didn't happen.  Some of the football was kamikaze and the OG goal summed that up.  Leadership is needed.  There is no disputing the drive and desire but there needs to be a bit more cuteness.

As alluded to already there is an issue at the FB and GK position in my opinion.  I have suggested Vernon at FB but that is just a sticky plaster.  Blaine Hughes is a decent keeper but he is a weak link as he has limited presence.  I have heard a story about an outfield player was approached to play goals and he subsequently removed himself from the panel.  This player would have a significant better presence that Hughes so maybe that was the thinking.  Long term there needs to be a bit of clever thinking about this position.

Management made decent substitutions but also made a few head scratchers.  Also the whole McGeeney incident with McKernan was embarrassing and out of line for his part. As a manager you need to have a bit of coolness and leadership and in that one incident this was lacking.  If the rules are applied he could be looking at 12 weeks in the stand.

Finally,  and not to piss on people's chips,  but this is  a very poor Down team.  They couldn't get out of Division 3.  We played against 14 men for 40 minutes,  we were 5 points up with time almost up and drew and we were 4 up with time up in ET and conceded poorly again. This will not do against Cavan, whom I thought looked excellent on Saturday night. 

Some good some bad but the key thing is a win.  Confidence and momentum can hopefully build.

Heard a similar rumour about a big FF in our club being approached to play GK but he refused.  I passed it off as bullsh*t but maybe there was a little truth to it after all.

I was amazed that the team that was named was actually the team that started to be honest.  Surely our strongest team includes Morgan, Shields and Soup (Grimley and Murnin too but i'll give them a bye ball with injuries).  Real problems in the full back line and it's something that will have to be addressed very quickly.  How Donaghy retreats to the line instead of closing O'Hare down for the 2nd goal I will never know. Nobody seemed to read the flight of the ball for the 3rd.  I'd be disappointed at club level with those goals fs.
« Last Edit: May 20, 2019, 12:03:49 PM by lurganblue »

tonto1888

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Re: Down v Armagh (Park Esler 16:00) 19/05/2019
« Reply #155 on: May 20, 2019, 12:00:43 PM »
A entertaining game for both sets of fans and neutrals id say.
Armagh are their own worst enemies, with a baffling starting 15 and team set up and a style of play that doesnt play to their strengths. They invited a more mobile and fluid Down side onto them by retreating into their own half with multiple sweepers even when 5pts up which was beggars belief. Down worked a similar system but worked it better it seemed. Armagh barged down blind allies carrying the ball into a swarm of red n black and repeatedly turned ball over. Individual flashes of quality and a jammy goal saw them over the line but only just.

Down impressed due to their hunger and energy and clear commitment to a system of play that suits their personnel/size. They looked a well coached and disciplined side and the more the game wore on they looked the side with more belief in what they were doing, even if the sending off and black card derailed them slightly. This young side demonstrated alot of the qualities that have been missing in recent years and the lesser-known players really stepped up at critical junctures in the game. There is definitely room for improvement in that side and with a bit of momentum and a few wins they could form a decent side.

For me, Mooney shouldnt have seen red. Yes he has a duty of care to the man he attempts to tackle but with the speed/angle he was going at and with Nugent checking back inside, any contact was going to look severe. There was no clear raising of an elbow or arm to make contact but rather a shaping to shoulder which clearly was mistimed or misdirected. His direct running and ability to punch holes in the Armagh defence was a massive loss.

Down also have an issue with goalkeepers it seems and thats worrying.

BCB1, i dont know the ins and outs whet youse have done on Clarke up there but i have to agree with you. Its not personal but no player has any business on a county panel yet alone playing unless they are there representing their club. Dont play for a club then you shouldnt be playing for county.

Rory Grugan shouldnt be starting for Armagh due to form and he certainly isnt fit to capt an intercounty team. Lacks leadership, presence and above all he doesnt inspire at all.

Team selection baffles too. Morgan has to start but only if he is muzzled and can behave. Armagh carrying too many older heads that McGeeney seems very loyal to, fellas that arent as mobile or fit for the athleticism of the modern game. You cant be starting Vernon, Forker, Donaghy and Ethan Rafferty all on the same team. There are more athletic and dynamic players on the bench and when you see Vernon being brought back on again youd have to ask yourself some questions if you were a sub.
Goalkeeping situation is a joke with Jack Grugan being asked to fill in as a goalkeeper in recent weeks and the Oisin O'Neil named as no 16 on matchday. Something not right there, but then again everyone knows McGeeney has no time for Goalkeepers.

He also needs to look at his conduct at full time. The macho bullsh!t and chest beating precipitates down through that team and it comes from the management team. Down had an inferior team on paper and are behind in terms of their development compared to Armagh but if i were an Armagh fan id be rippin at how that game went yesterday

Agree with a lot of this tho I donít think Forker was fit. Donaghy had a poor day at the office but is usually better.

Not sure I like the term muzzled but can see where you are coming from re Morgan. Heís an old fashioned defender with some modern aspects too. Supports attacked very well. Hits hard and is aggressive but sometimes crossed the line

Mourne Rover

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Re: Down v Armagh (Park Esler 16:00) 19/05/2019
« Reply #156 on: May 20, 2019, 12:03:48 PM »
LCohen refers to the possibility of the O'Neill/Guinness incident appearing on YouTube but it was shown in full during the television coverage last night. There is no doubt that O'Neill's open hand caught Guinness on the side of the face. The level of contact was obviously less than in the Mooney episode but by the letter of the law both were potential red cards. Mooney walked before the break and O'Neill stayed on in extra time to hit what turned out to be the winning point and collect the man of the match award. Both sides could point to other questionable decisions but, in a game of tight margins, the absence of Mooney and the presence of O'Neill were probably crucial.

brokencrossbar1

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Re: Down v Armagh (Park Esler 16:00) 19/05/2019
« Reply #157 on: May 20, 2019, 12:07:25 PM »
A curate's egg of a performance.  Firstly, well done to all involved in the win. To win in the Ulster Championship has been a very big psychological hurdle for this group but an important thing was that there were 4-5 who have not played or played very little in Ulster so the baggage was not there and they had some freedom to play.  Also, beating Down in Newry is always a good result and given that they hadn't been beaten in 63 years in championship makes it even better.

The positives are there.  Some good defenders but still a bit below level as a unit.  Thought Kennedy out in a very good shift for a newbie and Morgan did well when he came in.    In MF Burns did well and I think he will compliment Niall Grimley very well when he gets back fully fit.  Vernon is not the man for MF anymore but may be useful on the square as some have suggested as there is a serious lack of strength back there.

Up front Nugent impressed on his debut and he has a good opportunity now to establish himself.  Clarke played better than he has for a while which makes his refusal to play for his club even more frustrating.  I have major reservations about this whole scenario and it seems to be being brushed under the carpet to an extent.  The notion that a player can openly refuse to play for his club and then play for the county is unsettling.  I recall during my playing days when we were going for an All Ireland and the Armagh management at the time threatened to have Oisin, the Twins and Paul Hearty suspended from the club scene as they wouldn't play National League.  We were playing in an Ulster Final the week after a National league game,  back when there were games pre-Christmas.  This notion of the county outweighing the club is something I find unfair and really it sends a bad message that a lad can play for the county and not play for the club.  It won't happen but questions should be raised as this open action of refusing to play for your club while playing for the county is wrong and goes against the ethos of the game in my opinion.

Anyway,  the performance of Rian was outstanding and he certainly has it all.  If Grimley, Murnin and Oisin O'Neill can get back fit I think between them there is a central spine from MF forward that can be devastating if properly utilized.  The pure talent these lads have is exceptional and if the right players are played round them then they can do anything in my opinion.  If I was picking the team from MF forward and all were fit I would play Grimley and Burns in MF, a half forward line of Clarke, O O'Neill and Nugent and a FF line triangle of 2 targets in Rian and Murnin with Soupy floating either side of them.  Soupy and Jamie could interchange from HF to FF lines. 

As you will see Grugan is not in the team and to be honest this brings me to my negatives.  I thought he was poor and has been poor for some time.  He is captain and it is not suiting him.  He is not a big game player and certainly not a leader.  I actually thought that was one of the big concerns yesterday in terms of leadership and calmness at key times.  The game should have been won in normal time.  Down were a busted flush with 14 men (rightly so,  clear red card), and with a keeper gone for a black card.  The game management was poor and the experienced players like Grugan, Donaghy, Forker, etc should have been taking control of the game at different times and calming the whole thing down.  Lying down, cramp etc, break up momentum.  This didn't happen.  Some of the football was kamikaze and the OG goal summed that up.  Leadership is needed.  There is no disputing the drive and desire but there needs to be a bit more cuteness.

As alluded to already there is an issue at the FB and GK position in my opinion.  I have suggested Vernon at FB but that is just a sticky plaster.  Blaine Hughes is a decent keeper but he is a weak link as he has limited presence.  I have heard a story about an outfield player was approached to play goals and he subsequently removed himself from the panel.  This player would have a significant better presence that Hughes so maybe that was the thinking.  Long term there needs to be a bit of clever thinking about this position.

Management made decent substitutions but also made a few head scratchers.  Also the whole McGeeney incident with McKernan was embarrassing and out of line for his part. As a manager you need to have a bit of coolness and leadership and in that one incident this was lacking.  If the rules are applied he could be looking at 12 weeks in the stand.

Finally,  and not to piss on people's chips,  but this is  a very poor Down team.  They couldn't get out of Division 3.  We played against 14 men for 40 minutes,  we were 5 points up with time almost up and drew and we were 4 up with time up in ET and conceded poorly again. This will not do against Cavan, whom I thought looked excellent on Saturday night. 

Some good some bad but the key thing is a win.  Confidence and momentum can hopefully build.

Heard a similar rumour about a big FF in our club being approached to play GK but he refused.  I passed it off as bullsh*t but maybe there was a little truth to it after all.

I was amazed that the team that was named was actually the team that started to be honest.  Surely our strongest team includes Morgan, Shields and Soup (Grimley and Murnin too but i'll give them a bye ball with injuries).  Real problems in the full back line and it's something that will have to be addressed very quickly.  How Donaghy retreats to the line instead of closing O'Hare down for the 2nd goal I will never know. Nobody seemed to read the flight of the ball for the 3rd.  I'd be disappointed at club level with those goals fs.

Brick Tamlin has mentioned the name I heard so there is obviously some substance to it. 


BCB1, i dont know the ins and outs whet youse have done on Clarke up there but i have to agree with you. Its not personal but no player has any business on a county panel yet alone playing unless they are there representing their club. Dont play for a club then you shouldnt be playing for county.


You'll find that there has been nothing but support for Jamie over the years and the club facilitated him to travel in and out of the team for his whole career. 

blewuporstuffed

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Re: Down v Armagh (Park Esler 16:00) 19/05/2019
« Reply #158 on: May 20, 2019, 12:09:12 PM »
Are the highlights available anywhere online?
I can only please one person per day. Today is not your day. Tomorrow doesn't look good either

Brick Tamlin

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Re: Down v Armagh (Park Esler 16:00) 19/05/2019
« Reply #159 on: May 20, 2019, 12:12:21 PM »
Am i imagining this or was Ethan Rafferty also names as no16 2 years ago in the same fixture?

Some dicking about with ghoalkeepers all of McGeeneys tenure.
Courtney debacle in Cavan was another curve ball.

Solo_run

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Re: Down v Armagh (Park Esler 16:00) 19/05/2019
« Reply #160 on: May 20, 2019, 12:14:52 PM »
Are the highlights available anywhere online?

Should be on BBC iplayer

In hiding

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Re: Down v Armagh (Park Esler 16:00) 19/05/2019
« Reply #161 on: May 20, 2019, 12:22:01 PM »
I'm kinda surprised at the opinion that James Morgan did well when he came on.
I thought he gave away some really stupid frees. Seems to be a bit of a liability to be honest

illdecide

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Re: Down v Armagh (Park Esler 16:00) 19/05/2019
« Reply #162 on: May 20, 2019, 12:24:58 PM »
A curate's egg of a performance.  Firstly, well done to all involved in the win. To win in the Ulster Championship has been a very big psychological hurdle for this group but an important thing was that there were 4-5 who have not played or played very little in Ulster so the baggage was not there and they had some freedom to play.  Also, beating Down in Newry is always a good result and given that they hadn't been beaten in 63 years in championship makes it even better.

The positives are there.  Some good defenders but still a bit below level as a unit.  Thought Kennedy out in a very good shift for a newbie and Morgan did well when he came in.    In MF Burns did well and I think he will compliment Niall Grimley very well when he gets back fully fit.  Vernon is not the man for MF anymore but may be useful on the square as some have suggested as there is a serious lack of strength back there.

Up front Nugent impressed on his debut and he has a good opportunity now to establish himself.  Clarke played better than he has for a while which makes his refusal to play for his club even more frustrating.  I have major reservations about this whole scenario and it seems to be being brushed under the carpet to an extent.  The notion that a player can openly refuse to play for his club and then play for the county is unsettling.  I recall during my playing days when we were going for an All Ireland and the Armagh management at the time threatened to have Oisin, the Twins and Paul Hearty suspended from the club scene as they wouldn't play National League.  We were playing in an Ulster Final the week after a National league game,  back when there were games pre-Christmas.  This notion of the county outweighing the club is something I find unfair and really it sends a bad message that a lad can play for the county and not play for the club.  It won't happen but questions should be raised as this open action of refusing to play for your club while playing for the county is wrong and goes against the ethos of the game in my opinion.

Anyway,  the performance of Rian was outstanding and he certainly has it all.  If Grimley, Murnin and Oisin O'Neill can get back fit I think between them there is a central spine from MF forward that can be devastating if properly utilized.  The pure talent these lads have is exceptional and if the right players are played round them then they can do anything in my opinion.  If I was picking the team from MF forward and all were fit I would play Grimley and Burns in MF, a half forward line of Clarke, O O'Neill and Nugent and a FF line triangle of 2 targets in Rian and Murnin with Soupy floating either side of them.  Soupy and Jamie could interchange from HF to FF lines. 

As you will see Grugan is not in the team and to be honest this brings me to my negatives.  I thought he was poor and has been poor for some time.  He is captain and it is not suiting him.  He is not a big game player and certainly not a leader.  I actually thought that was one of the big concerns yesterday in terms of leadership and calmness at key times.  The game should have been won in normal time.  Down were a busted flush with 14 men (rightly so,  clear red card), and with a keeper gone for a black card.  The game management was poor and the experienced players like Grugan, Donaghy, Forker, etc should have been taking control of the game at different times and calming the whole thing down.  Lying down, cramp etc, break up momentum.  This didn't happen.  Some of the football was kamikaze and the OG goal summed that up.  Leadership is needed.  There is no disputing the drive and desire but there needs to be a bit more cuteness.

As alluded to already there is an issue at the FB and GK position in my opinion.  I have suggested Vernon at FB but that is just a sticky plaster.  Blaine Hughes is a decent keeper but he is a weak link as he has limited presence.  I have heard a story about an outfield player was approached to play goals and he subsequently removed himself from the panel.  This player would have a significant better presence that Hughes so maybe that was the thinking.  Long term there needs to be a bit of clever thinking about this position.

Management made decent substitutions but also made a few head scratchers.  Also the whole McGeeney incident with McKernan was embarrassing and out of line for his part. As a manager you need to have a bit of coolness and leadership and in that one incident this was lacking.  If the rules are applied he could be looking at 12 weeks in the stand.

Finally,  and not to piss on people's chips,  but this is  a very poor Down team.  They couldn't get out of Division 3.  We played against 14 men for 40 minutes,  we were 5 points up with time almost up and drew and we were 4 up with time up in ET and conceded poorly again. This will not do against Cavan, whom I thought looked excellent on Saturday night. 

Some good some bad but the key thing is a win.  Confidence and momentum can hopefully build.

Heard a similar rumour about a big FF in our club being approached to play GK but he refused.  I passed it off as bullsh*t but maybe there was a little truth to it after all.

I was amazed that the team that was named was actually the team that started to be honest.  Surely our strongest team includes Morgan, Shields and Soup (Grimley and Murnin too but i'll give them a bye ball with injuries).  Real problems in the full back line and it's something that will have to be addressed very quickly.  How Donaghy retreats to the line instead of closing O'Hare down for the 2nd goal I will never know. Nobody seemed to read the flight of the ball for the 3rd.  I'd be disappointed at club level with those goals fs.

Yip, v true indeed. The lad declined KMcG's offer for to be reserve goal keeper for 2 reasons...1) he's deadly in front of goal and 2) he wanted to complete his degree and get his career up and running firstly before committing to County Football
I can swim a little but i can't fly an inch

tonto1888

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Re: Down v Armagh (Park Esler 16:00) 19/05/2019
« Reply #163 on: May 20, 2019, 12:31:46 PM »
I'm not a fan of KMcG TBH but don't think there was much in that incident yesterday to warrant any bans, I know he shouldn't have done it and he barely moved McKernan and to be fair to McKernan he just brushed on past...a nothing moment. I know you wouldn't see Micky Harte doing stupid stuff like that but hey...

When Down got a man sent off i was just hoping KMcG would have had the balls to throw an extra man up front (this would have forced Down to go long with their kick outs rather than letting them have possession every time from their own kick outs) and go for it instead of having another sweeper ::), the game was decent entertainment but not the best of quality but a win is a win and we'll take it. Cavan will be big favourites to beat Armagh and rightly so but i'd much rather face Cavan than Monaghan TBH.

Agreed Rory G was very poor yesterday along with E Rafferty, Vernon and A Forker was just ok (I'd imagine the 3rd minute yellow card curtailed him a bit) but to end on a positive there was 6-7 lads who played well...J Clarke, S Campbell, J Burns, R O'Neill, Morgan, Nugent & Murnin when he came on...
KMcG has some thinking to do for 2 weeks time as a few lads there who were benched yesterday played a lot better than the starters, M Shields done well when introduced and Ben Crealey too although I think Ben looks a bit light but really benefited yesterday that most of the players looked fecked in extra time and he'd a lot of energy around the middle. Assuming Murnin has no reaction to yesterday then he'll be in contention for 2 weeks time and if not starting be at least good for a full 35 mins, I believe O O'Neill is almost fit too...Jasus a win against Cavan and them lads getting more time to get fit from their injuries would leave us in a lot better shape...An ulster final leaves us to win one game to get into the Super 8's (a f*ck i'm getting carried away here...lol)...

Where is Cavan match in 2 weeks?
Did Sheridan get a bad injury yesterday?

Sheridan was helped off the pitch and it did look bad

Applesisapples

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Re: Down v Armagh (Park Esler 16:00) 19/05/2019
« Reply #164 on: May 20, 2019, 12:33:04 PM »
Jamie Clarke should not play county if he doesn't play club. I understood you needed to be a registered member of a club to play county, obviously not. I recall a dispute regarding an Armagh County hurler in the 80's/90's who wasn't playing with his club but registers with a football team to qualify. Maybe Jamie is going to turn out for Keady? 😂